First, I do not consider Eukanuba winners to be better candidates for breeding. Take as an example the border collie that won the breed at the Tournament of Champions this year. I would NEVER consider breeding to that dog, or even any dogs from that kennel.
Okay but when you show your dog in conformation, these are the dogs your dog is being compared to. Why would you even consider putting your dog in a event where it will be judged based on a dog whom you'd never ever consider breeding to? I'm lost.
Second, though I am fairly new to owning border collies (I have owned border collies for 5 years, not much) I have done a lot of research on the breed, even before I got my first border collie, so I am not completely ignorant on the topic.
Five years is a great start but personally, I've never heard of you or your dog(s). Some people just "get it" and there are those whom have to experience everything before they can take someone's word for it (raises hand, that is me all the way, BTW). I'm guessing you are pretty young, just as I am. I've had this breed more then half my lifetime (12 years now, going on 13) and I'm still learning, day in and day out.
I got lucky though and have a amazing mother who watched her beloved GSD breed be turn and crippled by the AKC and explained to me at a very young age just what breeding for a conformation standard rather then a working standard does. Soon after my first dog, a GSD, passed a untimely death, she brought home a tiny little black and white fluff ball and my love began (I bet she wishes she could take it all back every time she sees all four of my current working bred dogs charge up the stairs when I come home). That fluff ball was a border collie heeler mix that probably could have been ROM’d into the ABCA had he been in the right hands before he died a young death. Then I got even more lucky, got myself a amazing little female off a working farm and then stumbled across an amazing trainer who has became like family to me over the past six years of my life.
Both you and I have many MANY years before either of us should start choosing and breeding dogs on our own and why should we want to anyway? There are a great number of amazing people in this breed that we should be spending our "learning" years learning from.
I am not however claiming that you, or any others, have no idea what they are talking about.
Well, I'm not going to lie, it feels like you are telling the people on this board they have no idea what they are talking about. You have your mind set a certain way and it seems like no matter what is said you have a "but, what if . . . “
If you aren't willing to learn what a Border Collie is and should be bred for from people who know, there are a good number of conformation groups you could join and be welcome with open arms in your present attitude but do you want to burn your bridges here before you’ve even got your feet wet? Conformation looks fun but it’s a dirty business and not just for the dogs and their health, the people too.
I can easily admit that a lot of people on here know a lot more about border collies than I do, and this is first place I would (and do!) come to for advice for that reason.
Okay, that is good but don't come in here telling us what we already know to be untrue. If you have questions ask, don't tell. It makes everyone ticked and no one wants to do anything but be angry in replies. I'll attest to this and openly tell you, I'm ticked that you’ve come in here stomping your foot the way you have, telling us this and that.
I respect everyone on this board and they sure the hell know what they are talking about, considering most of them have far more experience in this breed of dog then you and I have put together.
This is a good point and one I hadn't thought of, however, I don't see why we can't maintain a diverse gene pool and avoid inbreeding without having these horrible diseases FORCING us to do so.
We don't have horrible diseases forcing us to do anything in our gene pool, we are pretty much free and safe to bred to whatever lines we want without having anything popping up. You must be thinking of the AKC and conformation gene pool for the Border Collie which is shallow. Indeed, I must agree with your above quote then - they really should do something different because what they are doing now clearly isn't working too well for their dogs health or ability.
I am not saying that we shouldn't ever breed to carriers, we would lose some very valuable lines that way. A healthy way to do this, is if you have a line that you want to continue, but there are carriers, simply breed them to CLEAR dogs, test the whole litter, pet home the ones that are carriers, and continue your line with these clear dogs. You won't lose valuable lines that way, you won't be inbreeding and creating more problems in the future, and you will be making the breed healtier as a whole.
Isn't that almost what she just said? Besides the part of placing carriers in “pet” homes?
When working breeders breed, they breed for whole litters of puppies that can all go into working homes. Both our clears and carriers (if any) are able to go on and be the very best they've been bred to be. Those same puppies may go on to produce sound puppies of their own if they prove themselves worthy of being bred.
Carriers are fine to have in a gene pool, so long as they are not matched up with another carry. To remove carriers is to shallow our gene pool out (probably of some really nice working dogs) and why do that when we don't have to, for any reason? That is what the DNA test is for.
I'm not going to comment on CL, because I haven't done enough research on that topic, however, the TNS test is a very new development. (The test was only widely available in 2007) I have many pages printed out on this topic, which I am going to quote now, hopefully this will clear some things up.
Okay, well I've put hours (and I mean MANY hours) into studying the pedigrees of the CL and TNS dogs and even corresponded with Alan Wilton himself in emails when the test for TNS was being developed. There is much more there then meets the eye (read Karen's post) and unless you are willing to sit down and go thru pedigree after pedigree again with me I’m not going into depth as I’m almost sure what I'd have to say would have very little influence on your belifes anyway and I just don't want to waste the time here once again.
You can IM me on AIM if you'd like at DiceyDoLotz, I'd love to go over all this with you.