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#1 Powder Puff

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 01:36 PM

Hey, my dog at the moment is currently on purina pro plan, when i searching about raw foods on this site i read that someone couldnt believe that purina is crap. Is this true? Ive always been under the impression its the best you can give your dogs, when metioning i am going to switch to raw food people comment to me that the dog will be worse off as purina pro plan provides everything they need and by switching to a raw diet they are going to miss nutritions they need to survive. Im soooo confused on what to do!

#2 Miztiki

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 01:52 PM

Here are the ingredients of Purina Pro Plan's chicken and rice formula:

1. Chicken

2. Brewer's Rice

3. Whole Grain Wheat

4. Poultry By-Product Meal

5. Corn Gluten Meal

6. Beef Tallow

7. Whole Corn

8. Corn Bran

9. Fish Meal

10. Natural Flavors

11. Dried Egg Product

12. Dicalcium Phosphate

13. Salt

14. Vitamins/Minerals **

Included in our foods are some of the following: Ascorbic Acid, Beta Carotene, Biotin, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Iodate, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Carbonate, Cobalt Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Dicalcium Pantothenate, dl-Methionine, Folic Acid, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Niacin, Potassium Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin C Supplement (Sodium Ascorbate), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement (Alpha Tocopherol), Zinc Proteinate
*********************************

And they have to add all of those vitamins and minerals because the cooking process kills alot of them and the rest are fillers that a dog's body can't use in the form it is given. (The total fillers are more than the meat here too!)

Where's Chris O.? She probably has the link that shows these vitamins and minerals are all in raw meats and naturally in a form the dog can use.

Also keep in mind that dog foods have a bunch of additives and preservatives. There are good quality kibbles available. Purina is not one of them.

It is confusing but keep researching and learning. We can always do better for our dogs.

#3 concrete

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 03:34 PM

I have ten dogs here right now and I feed them all Pro Plan. Ten is the high end but I've been feeding between 6 and 10 dogs Pro Plan for years and they have always done well. They also have small stools which is important to me when I have this many dogs.


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#4 Powder Puff

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 03:43 PM

yeah roxy does also, shes been on pro plan since the start and her stools are firm and small like a cats

#5 Powder Puff

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 03:44 PM

thanks miztiki, so those things you listed up to 14 i need to make sure i give roxy if i start the raw diet thing right? I printed out that big raw diet questions and answers thing you did and its great! i havnt finished reading it yet though

#6 Rave

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 03:58 PM

If your dogs are thriving on what you feed, then it's a good food for your dog. Don't get caught up in trying something just b/c everyone else is doing it, unless of course you want to. I've heard of many dogs thriving on PPP. Do what works for your dog and you.

#7 Miztiki

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 04:00 PM

I've been eating cheesecake and pizza and drinking tons of coffee and smoking two packs of cigarettes a day for 20 years and I look pretty darned good!

I had my old dog Mickey on the cheapest stuff I could find for over 14 years.

It's a proven fact though that either diet can catch up with you, cause or exacerbate health problems. Most of us here are just saying that you can do better for your dogs.

#8 Miztiki

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 04:08 PM

Originally posted by Powder Puff:
...so those things you listed up to 14 i need to make sure i give roxy if i start the raw diet thing right?

No. Dogs don't need corn or wheat or rice. Those are cheap fillers that dog food companies use.

If you want to switch Roxy to a raw diet based on the whole prey model (like I feed Boy and Fynne), then they would get nothing but meat and bones. No dairy, no veggies, no grains, nothing but meat and bones. You could give small treats (Boy likes banana and likes to lick what's left in my pudding cup) but they should be a very small and insignificant part of their total intake.

If you decide against raw, at least consider a better quality of kibble where meat is listed as the first few ingredients. Just because it's listed first doesn't mean that all the other things added up don't constitute a higher percentage of the total product.

#9 ErinKate

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 05:50 PM

I've been eating cheesecake and pizza and drinking tons of coffee and smoking two packs of cigarettes a day for 20 years and I look pretty darned good!

I had my old dog Mickey on the cheapest stuff I could find for over 14 years.

First of all, if that first part is true, you go girl!! All the power to you! lol

The second part is almost an oxymoron. You have fed the cheapest for over 14 yrs, yet you are trying to say it isn't good for the dog. 14+ is a dog that has had a healthy life.

There are better ways for all of us to eat, but it doesn't mean those of us that don't eat perfectly aren't healthy. Same with dogs. I feed kibble, always have. Have always had old dogs. Go with what works for you. Just try to stick to it. Don't go raw today and kibble tomorrow. Don't want any upset tummies.

#10 INU

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 06:03 PM

I had fed my cats and dogs IAMS until I joined this board. Then I switched to Chicken Soup for dogs lovers. Friends and co-workers thought I was spoiling my dogs just because I drove extra miles to get their food. I thought my dogs did good on it and that they were very healthy.

Lately I realized that I could do better. Her teeth, coat, skin and immune system. I could take her to the vet and get a teeth cleaning, get some skin medications etc etc. I thought I'd give raw diet a try first since that seems more natural than giving medications and anesthesia. She has been on her raw diet for 2 weeks now. We can use her as our experiment and see. It might or might not work for her. I think it is up to the dog just like kibbles. I will keep you updated.

#11 Miztiki

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 06:13 PM

[quote]Originally posted by ErinKate:
[QUOTE]The second part is almost an oxymoron. You have fed the cheapest for over 14 yrs, yet you are trying to say it isn't good for the dog. 14+ is a dog that has had a healthy life.[/quote]If I knew then what I know now, I would have provided her with a better diet. Her skin would have likely been better, her coat would have certainly been softer. Perhaps she wouldn't have had those tumors all over her. Maybe she wouldn't have had seizures. Perhaps her senses would have lasted longer. Who knows?

Any kibble sold in the US meets the minimum requirements for canine nutrion. What I'm saying is that people should be aware of and understand what they feed their dog and know that there are ways they can improve.

I'm not a follower of raw like a religion. I have no choice with Boyden but to feed raw. I feed Fynne raw because I see how well Boy has done on it. If I lived in Hawaii like Denise then I would feed Fynne a good quality kibble and not lose sleep over it. But I wish I knew about my choices when Mickey was still alive. I could have done better by her and at least fed my girl a better kibble.

I'm not telling anyone they *need* to change what they are feeding their dogs. I'm sharing what I have been learning about dog nutrition so that people can make knowledgeable decisions.

And yes, I can eat anything and never gain weight. I can piss a dieting friend off real quick by moaning and groaning over my delicious cherry cheesecake while she eats a celery stick. :rolleyes:

#12 Nik

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 06:43 PM

And yes, I can eat anything and never gain weight. I can piss a dieting friend off real quick by moaning and groaning over my delicious cherry cheesecake while she eats a celery stick

LOLOL! Thank goodness I'm not the only one. But if your like me it can be a bad thing too. I NEED to gain a few extra lbs. and keep them on but I have such a high metabolism that nothing I do puts on weight.

Ok...back to your regularly scheduled program! :rolleyes:
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#13 Nik

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 06:46 PM

BTW....I've seen a few posts mention something about Iams but never explained why they don't feed it anymore. Please let me in on the secret.
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#14 tumblehome

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 07:00 PM

Originally posted by Miztiki:
Where's Chris O.? She probably has the link that shows these vitamins and minerals are all in raw meats and naturally in a form the dog can use.
**********
The link I think you mean is http://www.nal.usda....oodcomp/search/

It's easy to navigate--just type in the food you're interested in, check off the specifics that apply, then submit. You'll get a ton of vit/min/fat/water/etc. info.

If not, holler...it's a great website for nutritional information of most any sort; worth bookmarking.

When considering any commercial dog food, the main thing is the main ingredient. If meat protein doesn't dominate the top five ingredients, the dog is not getting a fair shake. Plain and simple. If grains rule the top five, the product is not dog-friendly. No grain of any sort is needed by any dog for optimal nutrition. Plain and simple. Grains are added as a cheap/profitable energy source. Even the wiseguys who concoct these kibble diets acknowledge that carbos are not required by carnivores. However, with dog food, profit rules. So dogs get stuff they don't need and can't digest because the stuff is cheap.


There are good quality kibbles available. Purina is not one of them.
**********
Well, I would suggest that "good" as regards kibble is entirely relative, but I do agree that Purina is very very good to its stockholders, not necessarily our stockdogs.

A really jampacked with info website is www.dogaware.com The owner has complied an amazing amount of dog nutrition and health-related stuff, comparative dogfood ratings is but one topic. While she and I differ on many issues, I give her full credit for a very useful website.

Chris O

#15 tumblehome

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 07:11 PM

Originally posted by concrete:
They also have small stools which is important to me when I have this many dogs.
**********
Well, small stools that are a result of a high degree of bioavailability is one thing. This means the food that went in was highly digestible and efficient nutrition.

Small and/or firm stools that are a result of added stool firmers (beet pulp is a good example) are completely artificial. Just as a human can really bung up normal, um, bathroom habits by depending on supplemental fiber like Benefiber or Fibercon or whatever they're called. Artifice, not natural digestive response to what was eaten.

Looks good on the ground, that's for darn sure. But the appearance is entirely deceptive.
Chris O

#16 Tassie

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 08:34 PM

Hi PowderPuff - FWIW, I believe that Purina ProPlan is what Guide Dogs use for all their pups and dogs (here in Oz). If that's right, they must be fairly satisfied with it - although of course they kibble feed for convenience for their clients.
Barb

#17 Powder Puff

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 09:23 PM

yeah, well ive decieded im swapping to a raw diet but it wont be till feb next year as im living at my parents house again at the moment and my sisters dog lives here and she doesnt want her going on a raw diet and i dont think it would be fair giving roxy those nice juicy meaty bones while jazz gets dry biscuts. So for now i thought i would get to know all there is to know (or try to ) and get excited about seeing the change in roxy when i do swawp her diet

#18 muggs

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Posted 04 July 2005 - 02:32 AM

And yes, I can eat anything and never gain weight. I can piss a dieting friend off real quick by moaning and groaning over my delicious cherry cheesecake while she eats a celery stick.

Same here until I hit about 35, then I had to start adding a few celery sticks myself. :rolleyes: And now that I hit the big 4 0 this year, I'm dieting for the first time in my life.

I've got my two on Innova after coming on these boards in Jan., but would love to do the raw thing because Loki doesn't realy care about his food at all. My dog Levi lived to almost 18 on the various kibbles from the grocery. I think after reading alot about the lower end kibbles that his inflammatory bowel disease may have come from his diet.
Margaret
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#19 Rebecca, Irena Farm

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Posted 04 July 2005 - 02:42 AM

I love the USDA site - for our own use as well as the dogs'.

I have to say after three years of largely preparing our dog's food, I continue to recieve surprises. When I switched Ben over to true whole prey (what could be more natural than eating a whole duck?), I was able to take him off his dementia meds and supplements. That makes me feel good because a) selegiline is outrageously expensive and :rolleyes: I don't know what it does to dogs but it causes hypertension and all kinds of other wonderfulness in people. I know as he gets older he'l probably go back on it again but it's nice for now to see the old Ben without medicating him into that state.

I'm growing out a whole bunch of ducks for him and plan to continue to do so. In the meantime, I figure his selegiline cost $88 a month - that's a heck of a lot of whole rabbits and poultry - there's a guy in SC who supplies raw folks with the whole critter and I plan to look into that for now.

Amazing what a difference food can make.
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#20 Joan

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Posted 04 July 2005 - 03:06 AM

Originally posted by Rebecca, Brook Cove Farm:
When I switched Ben over to true whole prey (what could be more natural than eating a whole duck?), I was able to take him off his dementia meds and supplements. That makes me feel good because a) selegiline is outrageously expensive and :rolleyes: I don't know what it does to dogs but it causes hypertension and all kinds of other wonderfulness in people.

You got my attention, Becca! Rip is on Anipryl now, and it's helping him a lot. I pay $72 a month, and I agonize over the choice each time I need another supply. Please tell me more about what you're doing with Ben. I fed all of my guys (and gal) raw chicken for a long time, but I've somehow drifted away from it. I'd appreciate the details on what has worked for Ben. Rip will be 15 in October. I hope. Thanks!



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