Bicycling with BC

[Meg's mum]

Its SPRING...rains are starting to dry up. I'm about to fix a leak in my bicycle tire and .....

 

Do any of you bicycle with your BC? There are two devices listed here....any opinions?

 

http://www.dog-training.com/springer.htm

[mado]

Hi ! Happy spring ! we started by walking with the dog and pushing the bike for a few times in calm streets , then get on the bike and let it roll !!!

You don't absolutely need all sorts of devices and gadgets and stuff to do simple things

[RaisingRiver]

There's a thread somewhere on here (sometime in NOV I think) about the Sprenger.

[Meg's mum]

Thanks! I found the thread, had to reset my filter.

(duh)

 

http://www.bordercollie.org/cgi-bin/ultima...t=010273#000000

 

So there's a walky thing as well as the Sprenger. I like the idea and I hate the idea. What if I fell on top of her or away from her and it speared on strangled her. Ay yi yi.

 

I'm going to start out somewhere like an empty parking lot on a sunday morning and see how she does. Then graduate to a bike path away from cars, see how she does. Then a bike path that has cars crossing. My biggest worry is roller bladers and psychobikers going top speeds confusing her and hitting her.

 

http://www.bordercollie.org/cgi-bin/ultima...t=010273#000000

[Keith Ramsay]

Is your dog off lead trained?

 

If so, I ride with mine all the time. The only command that changed a bit was "sidewalk" IE get off the road onto the sidewalk.

 

I did have to take her to a secluded parking lot and do a lot of positive reinforcement that I was not a big monster on a bike which basically meant riding really slow while she freaked out and talking nice. Then she learned to stop herding the bike and start listening to commands again and we were set.

 

Now if I go MTN biking... she always goes with us. Only rule that applies is if the dog gets in the way, treat her like a log. Seems to work pretty well.

[Meg's mum]

No is really the answer to that. Cats, dogs, humans, machines, scents, food, my pant legs will distract her, but probably not in a trot. Mtn biking I wouldn't worry terribly, and I may end up getting a mountain bike someday, but I have to get my knees to agree and I can't trust the kids to keep track of her. Even then she would range, but give me absolute recall.

[Keith Ramsay]

Originally posted by Meg's mum:

No is really the answer to that. Cats, dogs, humans, machines, scents, food, my pant legs will distract her...

LOL... Angel gets very distracted by the shadow crated by her ears on occasion. It is sort of funny when you realize what she is doing.

 

Angel is loosely free on the range, but does heel well when required. Before making a huge investment you may try finding that secluded parking lot and try just riding with the leash in hand. MAKE sure you have a helper to retrieve her if you have to drop the leash. That is how I started angel until I trusted that she was OK with it.

 

I'll also preface that with the statement I used to race bikes so I am pretty comfortable on one. (IE like if she pulls, general control and all of that!)

[RaisingRiver]

Leash laws require dogs on leash where I live. Otherwise I could bike w/ both my dogs off leash.

 

If you wanted to avoid fancy contraptions, I'd advise just holding the leash in your hand while your hand is on the handlebar. That way if you HAD to, you could let go - or just jump off the seat (straddle bike) for a quick stop to hold back dog.

 

Of course, this implies your dog is leash trained... neither of my dogs are.

 

Either way you go, excellent obedience on verbal commands would be most useful and safe while biking.

[Meg's mum]

Thanks Keith...I crossed North American on a bike when I was 14 and used to run centuries from Brookly to the tip of Long Island for practice. And Meg is loosely free on the land here. (Range? in Maryland? )

 

Meg doesn't heel, she returns when you stop or get too far away from her. We're starting our official obedience classes this Thursday, and the six weeks after it will be a three week intensive.

 

I'm going to look for a school track I can use and bring my husband along.

[Tassie]

Meg's mum - just wanted to sound a note of caution on the "bicycling in spring". If Meg were my dog, I wouldn't be cycling with her any more than a few minutes at a time until her growth plates have closed. ISTM that while cycling is great, it's too easy to overdo things with a young dog, and maybe set up some musculo-skeletal problems for later in life. When you think about it, most of the high impact/high stress competitive activities for dogs have an 18 months (or 2 years for Endurance Test) entry point. This allows time for growth plates to close - around 12 months, and then the training and conditioning ready for competition.

 

OK - that's just me being super cautious, I guess - but I'd be gradually building her up with road/path work with me walking - building up the distances, but without so much sustained stress on the legs.

[Meg's mum]

This is good advice. I'm at a loss sometimes, trying to get this 4 month old enough exercise. She is a powerhouse even among BC's. I can't jog/run fast enough myself for her. I'm going to try a slow pace and see how it all works. I can walk and ride, walk and ride with her over a 2 1/2 mile semi-rural road before I even get to the start of the dead end sign.

[Tassie]

Part of the problem ISTM is that these dogs will take as much as we can give them - then we end up with fit dogs wanting even more! 4 months is still a baby - I know, I know - try explaining that to her!

 

My recommendation would be to spend a lot of the time you would be spending in physically exercising her, in doing mental training instead - again - a bit softly, softly, as she is too young for too much training pressure. I'd be looking for lots of puppy agility stuff (bobh mentioned quite a few in the thread on "Agility Dog or not?" in the Obedience/agility forum - and there's a Puppy issue of Clean Run mag which would have some good stuff, I think - and there's plenty of stuff on the net.)

 

I'd also be spending time on scent games /hide and seek etc. where she has to use her brain more than her body. Teaching retrieve with different objects - wood, metal, leather etc. is great as preparation for maybe obedience in her future.

 

I'd be doing a little puppy obedience too, and some tricks. All sorts of things to keep her mind occupied. All of that is very physically tiring for a pup, more so than just walking and running.

 

At the risk of offending you - and it's not my intention - I worry that Miss Meg is maybe calling the shots a little too much on this issue. I know it's great fun to do stuff with them, but it's really important for these dogs (or any dogs) to know that sometimes they just have to chill. That might mean an X-pen and/or crate with a nice bone, stuffed kong, puzzle toy or whatever - and just relaxing, even though she may not be tired.

 

Did I remember right that you thought maybe Meg had come without an off switch? She'll have one there somewhere - your challenge is to find it and have her learn to operate it.

[Atlanta Smitty]

I took my dog Mountain Biking a couple of times last year. I had an easy time with it.

 

My dog likes to stay in front of me. No matter what I do. He would follow the trail about 10-15 yards/meters in front of me. He would look back to make sure I was behind him. If he got too far I whistled and he stopped.

 

I was amazed at how well my dog followed the trail. He didn't go off of it at all unless I got next to him and he wanted to get back in front of me. It was funny too watching him ziz-zag in and out of trees and jumping some logs.

[Keith Ramsay]

That is a really good suggestion on the age/activity level. Too much too early can really damage your pup.

 

There are a lot of ways you can condition dogs, and something I would have got into later as well.

 

You wouldn't let a 6 year old child run a 1/2 marathon. Same fora dog. You have to taper and train before you can just go out and have long mileage. I worked angel gradually over a few months. She is 2 now and very active all the time.

 

As for just earing her out... thinking hard will wear a dog out just as much as playing. Work on your training a lot, then play some. I do doggie push up for 1/2 hour every morning. Sit-down-sit-stand-speak-whatever. Lots of fun... and I do it with Cheerios. I do solid training every afternoon when I get home, before we go play. Better training session=go outside and play faster.

 

TUG! Tugging can really wear out my dog inside if I need to. Although always let tug be a game you initiate and end. Never let a dog just start tugging on things, else you will have a monster.

[Meg's mum]

Thanks again for the Cautions. It is a little daunting trying to sort out the dictums,"Thou shalt not have a border collie unless you are a marathon runner or move 1000 head all day, from the age caveats. For those of us who are rasinig puppies, it would be nice to have a matrix of activity type, against intensity, against duration to work with and a menu planning guide to put together a healthy week for different human factors (work scheduels, day care etc. )

 

Miss Meg (I love that) is indeed a bit of an attention queen, and yet all over the map on submission and dominance. We have LOTS of crate time, and quiet sit by the feet chew time, and cat run up and down the stairs time and around the acre yard becuase we feel like it time. We do 5-10 minute trainings 3 times a day, and she gets puppy day care days which tire her out. We go for walks and chase ground balls and frisbees, dance with each other, wrestle gently, tug of war, retrieve 'named' objects a lot. She and the cat go mole hunting and work together to do-in little bush tits when the get trapped in the house. (Horror of horrors!)

 

I haven't started scent training, waiting for the rains to stop. Indoor is too distracting with the cat. She is learning Hot and Cold 'Find it' but has no patience for unsupported Hide and Go Seek.

 

But in the smallest moment, even when she is clearly becoming tired and starting to slide in a sitting position. She will bring me toys and lay them at my feet, pout if I have a human thing to do and go off sadly and pretend to have to go out.

 

On leash in the house, she is a nightmare of misbehavior if she hasn't had enough physical exercise...those times are when we most need her to CHILL. After she's been in the crate for a while, has woken, gone out, chased a lighted disk and come back in, trained and played a little more - she will not go back into a crate happily (bark, bite, fuss, complain) and frankly I'm not sure she should. So I'm trying to find the happy place between having some semblance of a human life on days working at home and evenings and wearing Miss Meg out so that she returns to that sweet satisfied reasonably pliable dog that is not bent on scaling the fire place, tying my sneakers together, sniffing the walls looking for a place to start chewing, or pooping on the office carpet out of boredom.

 

Bully sticks, bones, peanut butter filled Kongs (however loved) only go so far.

 

I still wish that I could get a large squirrel cage for her, or a large room with bungy cords to suspend her in...or a Robot rabbit who is faster than she is....

 

I keep telling my husband that we need another BC to keep her company, but he just looks at me and bliks like I'm from another planet.

[Tassie]

Two is great fun - but then there's the problem of finding time to train each of them - and although they enjoy the company of the other dog, they still first and foremost want to be with their human - or that's my experience. My two have an acre and a quarter to run round in - but most of the time they are in the house waiting for me to do something more interesting than being on the computer.

 

Miss Meg sounds like she has a wonderful life - in fact it's just as well my two can't read, or they'd be filling out their passport application forms right now so that they can come live with you!

 

I'd still be working on mental stuff - like Keith says, it tires them out faster than physical exercise. Do you use a clicker at all? I'm just thinking that, as well as training little trick or doggy dancing moves - (inside is fine - maybe you can have the cat trained as well), you could also use the clicker to help Meg to learn to settle in one place - a mat or a cushion (or a chair, if she's spoilt like my dogs ) that is her place.

 

You would be teaching her to go to that place, and then teaching her to stay calm there. It would be in little increments of time. You would ask for a little longer in place each time before the reward - which could be a treat in place, followed by a release for a little game. The idea is that the staying in her place becomes paired with a little game (tuggy is great) after.

 

Of course you can teach this without the clicker, but I find that for stuff like this, the clicker is such a precise marker of correct behavior.

 

You could also schedule say 10 minutes where you sit down for a coffee, and have a bag of treats and a clicker, and just do some free shaping - choosing a behavior to reward from what she offers, and then shaping it up. You can use props for this - look for 101 things to do with a box on a clicker training site. I just love watching dogs working their little brains hard trying to figure out how to make you click that clicker. It teaches them to focus on you for longer, and to offer behaviors.

 

ETA this link puppy training articles which may give you some more ideas for entertaining and educating Miss Meg and having fun at the same time.

[Keith Ramsay]

Originally posted by Meg's mum:

Thanks again for the Cautions. It is a little daunting trying to sort out the dictums,"Thou shalt not have a border collie unless you are a marathon runner or move 1000 head all day, from the age caveats. For those of us who are rasinig puppies, it would be nice to have a matrix of activity type, against intensity, against duration to work with and a menu planning guide to put together a healthy week for different human factors (work scheduels, day care etc. )

I'll never give you that dictum! I am the most atypical BC owner out there. I live in a row house in the city. I have NO yard and a small house.

 

I sill say I keep my dog very active and very stimulated. She has learned to rest and wait for me, but if I miss a few days, I have a pistol on my hands. I was gone for a weekend, and left her with a very active friend. Basically first day/night she waited for me by the door. Pretty typical behavior as she parks and waits for me most days. After a day, she got bored and started to engange my friend, whom she really likes. They went to normal places for us and played and say dogs she knows. TWo days later when I got home, she was AMPED! It took me several hours to get her back in her normal tired state. I say notmal tired, but that is WAY more active than 90% of the dogs you will ever meet.

 

Someone had a really good point about training the two dogs. I got Angel because she and her sister were given up because a woman could not handle the two super active puppies because neither were trained. Splitting the two dogs has been the best thing ever, since each dog has grown immensely.

 

Again, this is a stock/herding forum, so you will find most people lean towards that direction, as opposed to companion dogs, but their advice on the breed specifically is usually spot on.

 

Given that... would I ever take another breed? Probably not. I did a lot of research, and knew what I was getting in to.

 

TRY TUG. 10 minutes of hard Tug and stop/starts on the tug will wear a dog out.

 

In a few months, she will be up to running and more mileage... in a year or so.... he will be ready to run more than you could ever handle. All things in due time!

[Meg's mum]

Thanks thanks....this is all the settling in of an art.

 

I had two adult BC's that were apartment dwellers in two phases of my life, both rescue. They did very well, one was truly mellow and the other well, was an Olympian Goddess sired by Mercury what else can I say. I cared for her on a farm at first, but She was my mother's dog , and went to live with her in an apartment. As mom got older I did what I could to take over...but in her later years I'm sure there were long stretches that she failed to get the exercise she deserved.

 

One day mother came home to her 'railcar' apartment to find the carpet ripped in half along the longitudinal axis of the apartment, and thereafter took to jumping 4' off the ground up and down for long periods of time.

 

I want Meg to grow into a dog whose best potential has been nurtured, whose idiosyncracies are channeled and loved, and whose less than admirable outlets for surplus energy have been redirected like a lightening rod.

 

All your suggestions are well met. Please forgive me if I'm still a little clumsy as a puppy guardian.

[blarney2]

I bike with my dog all the time. She loves to go with me. I purchased this bike rack that connects to your bike seat. It has a spring on its arm that sticks out on either the left or right side. The dog puts on a designed harness that has a release if your dog goes in one direction and you go in the other. It has been one my best purchases. I make sure I don't go to fast while she is with me. I also make sure the distance I travel works for the both of us. We may all believe a BC can go on forever but I believe you need to be careful. When she gets home she get her drink and then takes a rest.

I believe they use this device in Europe. I strongly erge everyone who likes to ride a bike to purchase one. You will be thankful you did. Having a dog follow you off lease is not only dangerous but in most states against the law.

Hope this helps