New here & question

[Kim B]

Hi everyone. I am the proud owner of two male BCs - brothers #1 & #4 - Joe & Snoopy. They turned a year old on 2/21. We formerly had a female BC that died from lymphoma last year (before we brought home these two.)

 

I adore my dogs & the breed. These two came from a working sheep ranch in New Mexico. Our former BC also came from a working sheep ranch in NV.

 

My question is, what is the best way you've found to leash train BCs. I have one that is pretty good on the leash. He's very food driven, and like most BCs, very eager to please. (that would be Joe, my black one.)

 

Snoopy, the younger of the boys, is wonderful off leash. He follows commands and is very praise driven. He's also a total mama's boy. I love him to death. But the minute you put a leash on him, he's crazed. He completely loses focus and wants to drag me down the block. I've tried food, toys, praise, etc. There seems to be nothing I can do to get his focus. I've had trainers try choke collars on him (which I'm not crazy about - but am willing to try) and he freaks. He's actually jumped up and bitten my arm to try to get me to release.

 

Any suggestions?

[mado]

Hi ! I walked backwards , facing the dog but backwards so they have to focus on you , praising all the time she was looking , which she couldn't really help with me blocking the view !, and then afterwards I used my walking stick , which I need anyway , just to put under her nose when she was going ahead of me , so she couldn't take over .

I realise though that this is a soft method which worked for a pup but might not be adequate for an adult dog .

[ErinKate]

Make quick turns when he gets ahead of you. Use a happy voice and tell him heel. I don't think a choke collar is your answer. No reason to freak the dog out, but you do need to be firm. It is a way of showing you are the alpha. They need to go with you, at your pace, not at a pace and direction THEY choose.

Have you tried any clicker training?

[SincereArtisan]

One of the best methods I have heard so far, is to pack your dog's dinner in a baggie, and leash them up, and go for a walk. When you get to the sidewalk, stop. Wait. You dog will be sniffing, exploring, but the moment he sits calmly by your side...praise profusely, give him a few pieces of kibble.

 

Then take a step, stop again....wait for him to sit. Give him kibble.

 

Then, work this up to two steps. Three steps. Twenty steps. And so on. This not only teaches your dog to be focused on you, but when you stop, they sit, and look at you.

[Kat's Dogs]

I used all 3 of these suggestions for my pups!

 

If Dazzle (my 1yo BC) does get to excited and ahead of me, I will either turn away or give a light pop on the leash and then turn. But she already "knows" how to walk with me. For the first time training I do more what SincereArtisan said.

 

What not to do though (IMO) is:

 

1) use choke chains. They can really hurt the dog's neck and don't really work. However, with really out of control/big dogs, a prong/pinch collar DOES work. With the prongs it doesn't hurt the dog and in simulating what an Alpha would do. Here is a thread about them.

 

2) pull on the leash. Quick pops on the leash are good but by pulling the dog away (constant tension on the leash) the dog just gets used to it. So if you are going to give that kind of correction, make the leash slack THEN "pop" it back.

 

BTW, Dazzle (while she was at the breeder's) was named Snoopy! It really fits her personality, but we thought it was more of a boy name. I really like that name though......

[Kim B]

Thank you all for reinforcing what I'd been told in the past and what I already knew - a choke collar is NOT the answer! I guess I just needed to hear it again to make me feel better

 

Your suggestions are all wonderful. I will definitely start taking him out well before being fed and I LOVED the walking backwards suggestion. I have done that and found that it did help to keep his attention on me. I will work on the food food food thing too. He loves the training treats. And maybe start taking him in the car a bit away from home too. I wonder if he can hear his brother protesting that he's at home???

 

So one last question... Would you continue to attend an obedience class with a trainer that insists on choke collar and submission? Or would you forego the money spent? I'm leaning toward not going back, as she was very forceful with him, actually rolling him into a submissive position while under her control (and yanking the *#$% out of him while he was walking.)

[Kim B]

Oh yeah, Kat - He really does look like Snoopy (well he REALLY did as a newborn!) He has black ears, white body with a big black spot on his back and his butt The funny thing is that Joe is all black and people actually ask which one is Snoopy! LOL My 11 year old son named him. We are big Peanuts fans.

[Kat's Dogs]

About going back to the trainer:

 

If you can talk to the trainer about what YOU think is right (or wrong) for the dog and the trainer MIGHT let you do something else. (probobly not, she will most likley talk you into choke) If not, then find a different trainer.

 

The thing is, with basic obedience instructors 9 out of 10 dogs they get there are just dominant - yours is that one that isn't. Because the most of the dogs are the trainer won't want to change her ways. If it was me, I would find a different traininer.

 

Actually it WAS me. With our little Shih tzu we went to a class and the first thing they did was hand out Choke Chains to everyone! The Shih tzu (Peanut - named half because of "Peanuts" and half because of looks!) was already a more submissive dog so I didn't use my choke and started looking for a new trainer. One that trained like I liked to.

 

oh, and if his brother is noisy when you take him out (I know that mine HATE that ) that could contribute to the problem. Finding a nice quiet park/street is a good place to start with. Someplace he already knows would be even better so he is familier with the place.

 

Hope it goes well!

[Kim B]

Thanks Kat. I thought the same thing. That the trainer isn't going to be happy if I don't do it her way, and I'm not going to be happy if I do. So let it go as a lesson.

 

When the pups were just babies (12 weeks old) a trainer was recommended that did choke training. Literally. He attached choke chains to the dogs and dragged their little 10 pound bodies around a field. It's not wonder that Snoopy is biting me. I think he still remembers that situation.

 

I do have a wonderful obedience/agility trainer already. I was just looking to double up on classes since Snoopy is such a butt-head. I thought doubling up would help. I think I know now to stick to people that understand the breed.

 

Thanks again for all the help and input!

[Howdyjabo]

has the dog ever been chained out???

If not

Let him learn to accept the confinement of the leash without you being involved.Let him deal with his panicing without you being the source in his mind.

 

Find a VERY safe place to chain him on a short chain.There is whole list of things that constitute safe.Ask for it if you decide to try it.

Chain the dog-- Then leave to a spot where you can watch inconspicuosly till he gives up fighting it.Never seen it take but minutes- but they are heartwrenching minutes.Don't interfere unless its life threatening- which I have only ever seen once.and that dog turned out to be certafiably nuts.Normal dogs won't take it to that extreme.

When he gives up fighting you are ready to teach it to walk on a leash.And its mind is ready to understand.Saves on alot of long term confusing nit picking for the dog.

[Kim B]

Thanks. I do have safe places out back to chain him. Will do that if other stuff doesn't work (easier and gentler! LOL I'm a big wuss!)