Minced chicken hearts, necks, gizzards

[pineapple]

I picked up some packs of minced chicken hearts/gizzards/necks at a local farmers market and cooked it up (may be transitioning to raw but not yet) with rice and veggies to portion into meals.

But now I'm wondering if this combo is too rich for a complete meal (though I do regularly vary the protein source).

Can anyone advise thanks?

 

[GentleLake]

Are the neck bones completely ground? If not, they could cause problems because once you've cooked them you've most likely rendered them indigestible. Even if they were ground, they're not digestible unless you've cooked them for quite a few hours, and even then could potentially cause impaction.

 

Cooking bones changes their molecular structure. Raw they're digestible, but once cooked they're not.

 

I don't understand what you mean by the food being too "rich." What I can tell you is that it's probably not a complete and balanced diet. Dogs have no nutritional requirement for carbohydrates, so I don't see the need for the rice. Cooked vegetables may give them some nutrition, but dogs are carnivores designed to eat meat and (raw) bones.

 

If you plan to cook meals for your dog(s), you should really do some research on what you need to make sure you've got a complete and balanced diet containing all essential nutrients. If this isn't going to be your dog(s)' primary diet, it's probably OK as a topper.

 

If it had been me, I would have fed what you got exactly the way you got it, without cooking and without adding the carbs and veggies, though I would also have added a little liver for the essential nutrients it provides. But then, I'm a raw feeder.

[waffles]

Chicken is pretty bland and what you bought isn't fatty. I assume highly fatty is what people mean when they describe meat as rich. I wouldn't have personally paid money for minced anything. Hearts and gizzards in a raw diet are fed as meat so you would be fine to feed that as a meal. They're so small that mincing them isn't necessary and you generally pay for that labor.

 

I would agree that if I had bought that I would just add some liver and kidney and that would be a days meal. But if you feed kibble then the mix you made would probably be fine added (maybe 1/2c.) to their kibble meal.

 

If you were looking to feed raw only you want to aim for 80% meat 10% bone and 10% organs (with generally 5% of that being liver). This is over time and not every day. My guys get bone in hunks usually 3x per week and some organs a few times per week.

[pineapple]

Yes completely ground in that it just looks like mince without any bone.

I'm not a total novice and have done plenty of research thank you very much. I'm pretty sure my previous health compromised dog owed her final 3 years of quality life to the home diet I put her on - thanks to the support and advice I got from a forum for dogs with that condition. .

However I'm not perfect. This is a new food for us and I didn't know that cooked minced meat containing ground bone was dangerous for example so thank you for that. But that's why I asked, not for someone have a go.

I asked whether it was too rich as I've seen on the net that gizzards for example should be treated as a semi organ meat even though they aren't (guess that was part of the research I wasn't doing).

I generally do half and half commercial and home cooked. The evening meal is home cooked. I vary between different proteins and add recommended supplements as appropriate. I'll continue to add things like rice/potato/sweet potato for now but that's a whole other debate. It's certainly a lot better than the 70% maize kibble with meat derivatives that he was on when he came to me.

[pineapple]

If you were looking to feed raw only you want to aim for 80% meat 10% bone and 10% organs (with generally 5% of that being liver). This is over time and not every day. My guys get bone in hunks usually 3x per week and some organs a few times per week.

Thanks. Looks like I shouldn't have cooked it due to the bone content. Though I have found a couple of sites that say it is OK. Sigh.... Wonder if it is safe to give in small amounts. But I AM looking at making the move to raw. I'm hesitating because I'm a bit of a wuss in that respect.

[waffles]

Thanks. Looks like I shouldn't have cooked it due to the bone content. Though I have found a couple of sites that say it is OK. Sigh.... Wonder if it is safe to give in small amounts. But I AM looking at making the move to raw. I'm hesitating because I'm a bit of a wuss in that respect.

If it were me, I would feed it. You paid for it and it's not like you are feeding a cooked chicken quarter or an actual whole cooked bone. It sounds like it is really ground up so it should be fine to feed. If your dogs are used to having things mixed into their kibble then you should be fine to continue as you normally do.

 

I personally started feeding raw almost 5 years ago and as someone who doesn't eat meat (besides a little chicken) I was a wuss too at first. I almost quit many times. But we have it down pat now and I feed two border collies raw. It really does take some time to get things organized to make it easier and to find affordable sources.

One bit of advice, is if you are looking online for advice/guidance in any of the raw feeding groups, is to take what information you find useful and discard the rest of the strong opinions. All of the groups have their own specific things they endorse and things they don't. The kind of militant attitude in most of those groups can be very off putting (it's just dog food for gosh sakes).

 

I think most mean well and they just don't want to suggest feeding something that may harm someone's dog (i.e. saying chicken necks are safe for all dogs and having someone's large dog choke on one).

[GentleLake]

I'm not a total novice and have done plenty of research thank you very much.

 

You posted here asking for advice without mentioning any sort of experience you have and I tried to offer some. I wasn't "having a go" at you. So there's no call to be snide.

 

Next time I won't bother.

[Sue R]

I'm not a total novice and have done plenty of research thank you very much.,,But that's why I asked, not for someone have a go.

I think you over-reacted to a very reasonable response from a person with a lot of experience in feeding home-prepared diets, who only had your dog's best interests in mind and no real knowledge of your experience level.

 

I hope between the several responses that you got the help you were hoping for. I have fed raw and cooked organ meats myself but simply as an add-on (or topper) and totally without trying to balance them as a steady, significant part of my dogs' diets.

 

So I can't offer you any advice othere than what's already been given, and wish you the best.

[pineapple]

Thanks GentleLake

It was just that the overall tone seemed a bit critical which probably influenced how I perceived the completely reasonable suggestion to do research! Plus I guess I read it with the mindset of someone who spent 3 years giving her last dog a new lease of life - defying the prognosis and the vets - who called it a miracle. It wasn't a miracle. It was time and money (and endless research) and not giving up. And love of course.

Ben's current diet may well be imperfect in many eyes in that it has been cooked and contains rice or other carbs and it will be a work in progress for some time to come. But it is one million percent better than what he was getting previously and unlike the many who feed processed gunk off the supermarket shelves without a thought, at least I am making the effort.

Everyone comments that he looks a different dog compared to how he was when he came from the rescue. Even his stool these days is a thing of wonder.

Sometimes words on a forum are perceived differently to how they were meant. So I'm sorry if I overreacted (though I would call it snipey rather than snide). I do appreciate the advice from you and everyone who responded.

I'll steer a middle course with the stuff that I bought and cautiously feed as treats/supplementary rather than a complete meal. However it was from a well regarded local farm where the poultry is genuinely free range and provenance is what worries me if I do go down the raw food route and have to buy online. Currently comparing the various UK suppliers...

Cheers folks

[Sue R]

Your dogs are fortunate that you put the effort and thought that you do into caring for them.

 

Very best wishes!

[waffles]

However it was from a well regarded local farm where the poultry is genuinely free range and provenance is what worries me if I do go down the raw food route and have to buy online. Currently comparing the various UK suppliers...

Cheers folks

I am not sure how different things may be in your part of the world but where I am, I buy all of my dog's meat at the same grocery stores I shop at for myself. I do get some items in large cases like kidney and pork hearts at a restaurant wholesale supplier. I don't bother with 'raw suppliers' as they seem to only sell ground products and they are a lot of more expensive per pound then just buying the whole meat at the store.

I am lucky as well to have friends and family who hunt and they give me last years venison that they need to clear out of the freezer before hunting season begins.

Best of luck with your guy. He is lucky to have someone who care so much for him and his health.

[pineapple]

Waffes I live in a rural area with limited shopping. I do use a butchers shop in the nearest small town but I find it expensive as are all the shops round here. Don't always get ground/minced meat but he bolts his food and tends not to chew so sometimes I think ground is better.. Anyway - looking at ways to cut costs - which is why I was looking at bulk online providers. But not just pet food suppliers. Currently wading through the online butchers! The other option is to make a monthly trip to a budget store and stock up for the freezer. I could probably save around 30% that way.

Lucky you being able to get your hands on some venison!

[waffles]

We have a chest freezer in the basement for us and the dogs and I keep a rotation of stuff upstairs in our regular freezer. The restaurant supplier is about a 40 minute drive so I buy a couple cases of things (usually 30 or 50 lb cases are offered) so I only have to go every 2-3 months. There is also a great coffee shop near by so I usually drag my husband and we go out for lunch.

 

I buy chicken quarters and whole chickens in the grocery store when they go on sale and make a trip just for those, and buy 40lb at a time usually. Sometimes I get pork for cheap as well at a wholesale club store. This makes the cost the same as the kibble I was feeding. As much as I like feeding raw, we are also on a budget and am not willing to spend more than what I paid for kibble. The free venison sure helps plus their livers are huge so when I get those it saves on the cost of organs.

[pineapple]

Wow! I'm afraid I don't have that much space for storage. Must buy a bigger house next time!

But I think meat is more expensive here as well. I find that even top of the range kibble is cheaper than home prepared.