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registration question


Pam Wolf
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suspect Mary was gobsmacked at the mere thought that someone might want to deregister a dog, and was hoping to make ABCA look like the spoilsports in your little endeavor. :lol:

For some reason, that does not surprise me in the least.
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I sincerely doubt anyone who had enough interest to get a CH on a dog would have any interest in giving up their registration and title, even if they could. Nor, I suspect would anyone who purchased said dog after the fact (at, I'm sure, an exorbitant price).

Hmmm. Well, 10 years ago I owned a Rough Collie with points. I could have finished him, but it didn't seem to be worth the effort, for what? A piece of paper? Though I kept him intact all his life, I never bred him or had any intention of doing so.

 

If I had known then what I know now, I would want him de-registered. And if I were to buy a puppy now that was dual-registered, (That would assume I was unaware of the dual registration at the time of the purchase, and found out later.) I would want it de-registered from ACK. And I would pester them in any way I could to try to make them do it. I would be interested in the legality of their refusing to have my dog removed from their studbooks.

 

I would want any dog of any breed I owned de-registered from ACK. And I think it would be a good thing if everyone who owns an ACK-registered dogs to petition for de-registration. Send a message. Maybe it wouldn't do any good, but it wouldn't do any harm, either, and it might make ordinary dog owners start asking questions if it was done a lot, with some publicity.

 

Say everyone in a certain large obedience or agility club petitioned for de-registration. Sure, they would no longer be able to compete in ACK venues, but they shouldn't be doing that anyway. They are in bed with the devil. and ought to be ashamed. (JMO)

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Dear Doggers,

 

Roxanne wrote: " I suspect Mary" (AKC) "was gobsmacked at the mere thought that someone might want to deregister a dog . . ."

 

 

I haven't had close dealings with the AKC since the Dog Wars. They were - and I suspect are - an insular, self involved organization. So much so that Mary might not know there is another!!!! Border Collie registry.

 

Donald McCaig

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Quote: "Could it be while David is still facing off against an aging and ever weakening Goliath, in the shadows a new Goliath is growing/strengthening and that the dual registration of ABCA dogs with AKC is less of a threat to the working border collie than the dual registration of ABCA dogs with sports registries such as USDAA, UKI, CPE etc?"

 

in the sport arena, dogs are registered only to keep account of their points toward whatever goal they are trying to achieve in that venue-cpe, usdaa, uki, etc. these "registries" do not care where your dog is from-akc, abca, county pound, all good. they don't care if your dog is spayed, neutered or intact. they don't keep track of who is breeding to who and where you might of sold the puppies. all they do is track the fact that this dog was at this event and qualified in these events. all of the sport venues i know of grew tremendously because of the fact they allowed mixed breed dogs to compete, opposed to the akc that until very recently only allowed akc dogs to compete. so, ABCA should have no beef with the agility registries.

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Quote: "Could it be while David is still facing off against an aging and ever weakening Goliath, in the shadows a new Goliath is growing/strengthening and that the dual registration of ABCA dogs with AKC is less of a threat to the working border collie than the dual registration of ABCA dogs with sports registries such as USDAA, UKI, CPE etc?"

 

in the sport arena, dogs are registered only to keep account of their points toward whatever goal they are trying to achieve in that venue-cpe, usdaa, uki, etc. these "registries" do not care where your dog is from-akc, abca, county pound, all good. they don't care if your dog is spayed, neutered or intact. they don't keep track of who is breeding to who and where you might of sold the puppies. all they do is track the fact that this dog was at this event and qualified in these events. all of the sport venues i know of grew tremendously because of the fact they allowed mixed breed dogs to compete, opposed to the akc that until very recently only allowed akc dogs to compete. so, ABCA should have no beef with the agility registries.

I would not even use the term registries for USDAA/CPE/NADAC/UKI etc they are sports leagues nothing more, you pay them money to participate in their sport, they have no interest in the dog other than its height and the results submitted.
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I guess I didn't put my thoughts into word the correct way. My intent wasn't about the purpose of the registry. Bad writing on my part. This may not be much better....


Rufftie wrote:"so, ABCA should have no beef with the agility registries."

 

other than agility registries are promoting a very popular activity that potentially weakens working ability in much the same way that conformation does if breeding practices/choices aren't carefully made? Thats part of my thinking anyway.

 

Seeing as how currently more border collies compete in dog sports than in conformation (possibly more than they do in conformation and working activities combined) and seeing as how other venues such as USDAA, CPE and UKI are growing, is it possible that dog sport/dog sport organizations are/will be a greater threat to the working border collie than the AKC/conformation currently is/was?

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yes, probably. what makes the border collie excellent in stockwork, makes it excellent for other endeavors like agility, flyball or disc dog. humans like to tweak. having found the border collie a dream for these sports, people will want to make it "better". and just like breeding for anything other than stockwork, we lose something of the true border collie. i don't think this is so much a problem of the venues-cpe, usdaa, etc as human nature. I think in the future there will be a complete split-

1)working border collies, and those bred to work from working dogs, 2)Barbie collies-those bred for akc conformation and 3) what I like to call the American sport dog. border collies that have been bred so long for agility and such that they also lack any stock sense. and just as we struggle to preserve the breed now, to enlighten people - we will continue.

the only difference I can really think of is in conformation- the border collie has to be border collie bred, so to speak. in agility there are so many choices of what dog to run. some think border collies are the best. and even if they are-some people don't want to live with borders. others think malinios' are the greatest sport dog, other love to run a small spitfire like a Papillion. so, in sport venues there are so many other choices for people other than border collies. does that make any sense??

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The various agility venues all have different flavors and attract different types of dogs and handlers.

 

in the end, CPE, NADAC, USDAA, and UKI only provide sports leagues (analogous to Little League) for dogs. They don't give a rip about breed or breeding.

 

So, I think that the implication here is that sports are a "threat" to the working Borcder Collie. Although there may be more Border Collies participating in sports than kept as working dogs, I don't think that this consitiutes a threat in the genetic/evolutionary sense because no working dog person would outcross to a sport collie.

 

I think that the bigger theat to the working dog gene pool is the loss of agriculture. And we can't blame the USDAA, NADAC, CPE, UKI, and even the AKC for that.

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The various agility venues all have different flavors and attract different types of dogs and handlers.

 

in the end, CPE, NADAC, USDAA, and UKI only provide sports leagues (analogous to Little League) for dogs. They don't give a rip about breed or breeding.

 

So, I think that the implication here is that sports are a "threat" to the working Borcder Collie. Although there may be more Border Collies participating in sports than kept as working dogs, I don't think that this consitiutes a threat in the genetic/evolutionary sense because no working dog person would outcross to a sport collie.

 

I think that the bigger theat to the working dog gene pool is the loss of agriculture. And we can't blame the USDAA, NADAC, CPE, UKI, and even the AKC for that.

This I mostly agree with.... In USDAA I have met more people who support working bred border collies than the beauty pageant variety, I have also met many rescue dogs. I have never competed in AKC but in both NADAC and USDAA the show variety are in the minority and from my unscientific survey among the weekend warrior variety competitor you don't get sport collies, people seem to get them from all sorts of random sources, it's only as they get into the breed that they start to realize there are variations.

 

Edited to add that it should have said don't get "many" sport collies

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By virtue of being an all-breed registry, the AKC caters to everything from Chiuauas (sp) to Great Danes. In the the quest of making everyone happy, they have created a flavor of agility that some would argue rewards accuracy more than speed,. The USDAA emphasizes both speed and accuracy, and starters dogs have to do 12 weave poles and down on the table unlike the other venues. Many people won't run in USDAA for this reason and because the jump heights are perceived as being too high, but the reality is that dogs can run at a lower height in the performance division. In my opinion USDAA is the most competative, challenging venue; some people refer to USDAA agility as "real agility"

 

Anyway, in my area, the Border Collies at USDAA trials are rescues, conformation-bred dogs, sports collies, and some working bred.

 

Contrary to what a poster above said, the reason given for acquiring a working bred dog is not the drive (sports collies have plenty of drive), but rather the temperment and the recognition that the conformation-bred dogs and sport collies lack the entire package.

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