B Point Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Juno is just turning 6 months and we are taking him to the farm to see sheep for the first time. Heck....it's my first time, too and I'm getting excited. I guess the instructor will tell us whether he has any ability or not but is there something I should be looking for? Right now he shows a ton of eye for pretty much EVERYTHING....lol. He's a super intense little guy. I know that's not a definitive quality but what other things are there? Thanks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Maybe not helpful, but my advice is try to go with no expectations...., either good or bad. Many pups need time to mature before they show whether they have potential to work stock..and IMO 6 months is too young for your instructor to give you a definitive answer to this question.. But if you are asking how Juno may behave now.. Well, diffent pups behave in different ways. Some are not interested and/or very uncertain..others are very excited, barking and chasing .... Some others maybe completely transfixed to the stock with his eye to such an extent that they completely freeze. (In my limited experience this is less common in a young pup)....Any indication that he is thinking about what to do and also trying to get behind them, hold them together as a group and balance them towards you (...in a calm, focused manner with his tail down) is great, but as said, I certainly would not be worried if any 6 month old pup did not manage this. If it is also your first time with sheep, my best recommendation would be to see if your instructor will spend time with you, without Juno, showing how his dog(s) works with stock. Ask him/her to point out different aspects of sheep behaviour and to demonstrate how these alter depending on how humans and dogs behave.. If possible try to move the stock yourself without a dog. This will all give some indication of what the dog has to do. Enjoy your session and let us know how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted April 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Thank you Maxi. I know it's all pretty much common sense not to expect much but I guess I just wanted to share my enthusiasm for something that is new and exciting for us. I will indeed let you know how it goes. Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 How very exciting for you and Juno! I'd say abandon expectations and just enjoy the day with your pup. Whatever he does now is only minimal indicator of the dog he's going to be, so I'd say if he turns right on to sheep, be happy. If he doesn't, if he's uncertain or too wild or maybe even holds sheep to the fence and refuses to let them move, don't worry. It will only mean he needs more time to grow up. Do keep us posted!~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Update.....! Well, I took both Tio and Juno to the farm for their assessment trial. Tio had 2 short sessions and Juno had one for about 8 minutes or so. Juno was a head up, tail up brainless puppy for the most part but was always "on" the sheep and showed that maybe one day he'll mature into it. The instructor seemed hopeful. Tio, now 2yrs old was pretty fantastic I think. From first sight he was "switch on". The first session (this video) he was all chase and teeth but in the second session he was much more into controlling all the sheep rather than singling out individuals. Remember...this time last year he couldn't even walk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 What was really fun was using the instructors dog to move the sheep around. I bought some whistles a few months ago and have gotten good at it...very good actually....it came easy. She showed me her calls and within a minute or two was moving the sheep. What a blast for this first timer....learned a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Well done to you, Tio and Juno... It sounds like you all had a Grand Day Out did it meet/exceed your expectations? will you get the opportunity to do more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Thank you Maxi. It wildly exceeded my expectations that I had for Tio especially. He rocked I thought...in fact, everyone watching was really impressed. He stopped biting and nipping when I said "No" and stopped immediatedly when I yelled "Stop". The instructor was impressed, too for whatever that's worth. I will follow up with him to see how he handles actual lesson and not just a "go get em!!!" like yesterday. Both he and Juno will continue again but probably not until the fall....it's just getting too hot here from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 It was wonderful to see Tio and the sheep. As you reminded us, he could barely move a year ago. Awesome recovery. I bet Tio thinks you are the best dad ever!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Thank you Jovi. While I was in there with Tio I had mixed feelings as I thought it was being pretty hard on the sheep. Is that how the first encounter usually goes.....basically "sic em, boy" attack mode free for all...?? I didn't ask the instructor what the next step will be. He certainly is keen but I'm skeptical if he can focus enough to do anything useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 I am a rank beginner too. I have a 14 month old that I took to a weekend herding clinic when he was 9 months old. All attendees got 4 sessions throughout the weekend (2 per day of ~ 10-15 minutes). Watching other dogs was educational too. Kiefer's first session required me to urge him to approach the sheep and praise when he did. Once he figured it was all right, he circled a few times, but pretty much stayed off of them. That afternoon (2nd session), he was a kamikaze. Diving right in. I did not have to say anything (like 'Get 'im') since he was all about chasing. Since he had a long line on, I would try to step on it when the clinician said so. I felt pretty bad at the end of the session since it looked like a cotton field. Luckily the sheep had a good coat of wool so Kiefer was only getting mouthfuls of wool and not contacting skin (as far as I could tell). The next day (sessions 3 and 4) seemed pretty much a repeat of session 2 - but a lot less wool-biting. To my inexperienced eye, I didn't see much improvement in technique. If anything, he became more 'confident'. One little glitch: I didn't latch the gate securely in the round pen, and when the sheep slammed up against the gate, it opened and 5 sheep went running out into the pasture. Ooops! I was proud that Kiefer came back when I called "That'll do". Another dog was sent to herd them back. I'm sure others here will tell you what may happen next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 That's very similar Jovi...pretty much identical actually. Great to know. The sheep seemed pretty used to unruly dogs and really didn't move that much. Those poor sheep were TIRED... I think that if Juno had some "fresh" sheep he would have done better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 That's very similar Jovi...pretty much identical actually. Great to know. The sheep seemed pretty used to unruly dogs and really didn't move that much. Those poor sheep were TIRED... I think that if Juno had some "fresh" sheep he would have done better. Chris, IMO the sheep in your video are heavily 'dogged' rather than tired..As you noted they are 'used to unruly dogs' and have learnt the best thing to do is stay near the handler and not to move too much. In many ways they have become resigned to the situation. If your trainer regularly instructs complete beginners, then she may prefer to use stock like this..Anything less dogged risks being significantly stressed or injured partly because the novice would not know where to position him/her-self and partly because they would not have sufficient experience to pre- empt an overexcited dog from rushing in/chasing and gripping. Personally, I prefer much freer-moving sheep for my youngsters, but my training set-up seems a bit different from what is shown in your video ...and there is also the important fact that I wouldn't let a complete novice start their dog on my stock (though I am exceptionally grateful to those trainers who did let me do this when I was starting out!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Dear Doggers, Perhaps the trainer has a very small training flock. There's a wether amongst 'em. Tio's doing fine, Mr. Chris is doing better than I did first time on sheep and I applaud the trainer who lets the novices try rather than demonstrating their own magical skills. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Thank you Maxi. Very much appreciated. Yes, "dogged" is really the word I was looking for. There were four pen areas like the one I was in and the sheep in the other sections were much more reactive but there were experienced handlers and dogs in those. Certainly makes sense I guess. I was actually expecting the instructor to take my dog especially since there was no question about his desire to engage the sheep. We'll see how things progress in the fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Dear Doggers, Perhaps the trainer has a very small training flock. There's a wether amongst 'em. Tio's doing fine, Mr. Chris is doing better than I did first time on sheep and I applaud the trainer who lets the novices try rather than demonstrating their own magical skills. Donald McCaig Thank you for the words of encouragement Mr. McCaig. I think there were about 30 or so sheep in the flock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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