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I have often heard people say that doodles are not their favourite. It seems to be that generally they are neither as smart as either labs or poodles. I am not trying to diss either breed or the mix, i am more interested in how people view the border collie as part of a mix.

 

Now before people start thinking that i am suggesting purposely breeding borders collies, rest assured i am not. I like most here, think border collies should continue to be bred the way they have been historically in order to maintain the breed we love. Unfortunately, there are a lot of border collies out there not working sheep and languishing in the system. I have 2 shelter dogs, one an apparently purebred border collie and one border collie/lab/? They are both great dogs. So assuming we are only talking about dogs that have already been bred, how does the border collie do as a contibutor to mixed breed dogs? My mutt is very smart, athletic and all around lovely. So is my purebred, only he is more, more everything.

 

Do some breeds tend to pass on their negative traits while others tend to pass on their positive ones? Or is it simply that crosses show less intensity in the original traits and so it depends on whether one likes a certain trait or not. As an example, in my experience, labs tend to be very hyper. When crossed with other breeds, they continue to be energetic but they lose a bit of edge. A positive to me, but maybe if you love that spastic energy, then a lab cross is missing something,

 

Thoughts?

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I think it really, really depends. My first experience with border collie anything was a little border collie mix. We're pretty sure she was mixed with something houndish (beagleish we think). What we wound up with was a very fast, agile, driven dog... with very little biddability. She was naughty, she bayed, and if she didn't feel like doing whatever it was I wanted her to do it was going to take me and my army to get her attention.

 

She was determined, and had little self control.

 

I think you can get really lucky and get the good stuff, or get really unlucky and get the undesirable stuff. Sometimes you even get a strange combination.

 

IMO, since so many traits are already pretty well set in certain breeds I'd be hard pressed to mix breeds around to get something else. For example: if I wanted a dog that didn't shed, like a poodle, I'd get a poodle. If I wanted a dog that acted like a retriever... then I'd get a retriever. I think you can find what you're looking for within the varioius breeds if you (the general you) choose carefully and do your homework.

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Cerb is my first Border Collie(ish) dog and he is definitely a mix. Most probably with some sort of Lab mixed with a hound(?) of some sort.

 

I hit the jackpot. He's sharp as a tack and my training is the only thing that holds him back from learning new stuff. He even seems to know what I want even if I flub the command, and in new situations, to boot. He's sweet, happy, funny, athletic, runs like a race horse, doesn't chase any of the cats (or the bunnies!) is GREAT with kids, is driven w/o being hyper and is a very good boy.

 

I've trained him since he was 10 weeks old and view almost any situation as a "teachable moment". I'm consistent and expect others to be so when around him.

 

Cerb is a mutt. A really good mutt that I love to pieces, but a mutt none-the-less.

He goes for his instinct test this Sunday. If he shows good instinct I think I'll call him a Border Collie.

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Out on the ranches you tend to see border collie crosses of various types, and to be honest, I think it "just depends." There's any variety of BC/cattle dog, BC/Aussie, BC/McNab crosses out in ranch country, but there never seems to be any "typical" traits among any of them. They appear to vary by the dog.

 

My best examples are two dogs we had, years ago, who were a BC/Aussie ranch-cross. The first one, Della, was a happy, silly thing who seemed more Aussie than anything, loose-eyed and funny and athletic - but not a lot of stock sense. She'd go get a cow, but only because we asked her to, and she was just as happy to go chase squirrels.

 

We got her sister, Dolly, when the rancher did a repeat breeding a year later, and Dolly was entirely different. She was intense, dead-pan serious, and though she worked cows like an Aussie, (barrel straight in, hit the heels) she approached sheep more like a border collie: still upright but with eye and a strong sense of balance. We used both girls as our cow-dog team, but looking back, I think Dolly could have been a very nice sheep dog and at the least, could have done AHBA ranch trials.

 

Two very different dogs out of the same cross, same breeding.

 

So, the border collie can offer things to working crosses, and sometimes ranchers add things to the border collie to get traits they value. (More bite, more direct, pushier.) But in my admittedly limited experience, what traits the border collie blood carries into a mix varies tremendously by individuals and by who the parents were.

 

Not sure this helps at all ... ;)

 

~ Gloria

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I think I don't like the doodles I've met becsause the labs/goldens and poodles being crossed to produce them were not of good quality. Responsible breeders of labs/poodles/goldens don't sell their dogs to people who aim to produce designer mutts. If you did cross the nicest poodles with the nicest labs/goldens, I might like the resulting offspring.

 

I did know some bc x labs growing up. Mom was a super sweet lab, dad was a quirky bc. Most of the pups were sweet but quirky.

 

I also know some bc x husky crosses. Mom was a working sled dog, dad a working sheep dog. Pups were phenominal sled dogs but tried to chase/eat anything that moved. Of course, many huskies like to kill chickens, cats and other small creatures, so who is to say the bc parent contributed that trait?

 

I would take a bc x kelpie cross *if I liked both parenst.*

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Do some BC mixes have the crouch/eye (both) trait?

 

And can a full BC NOT have the crouch/eye trait?

 

thanks

I only have my dogs to go by and I'm not experienced but I would say yes to both questions.

 

My Jake is a rescue so I don't know anything about his lineage but I'm convinced he's PB but he doesn't have any eye or crouch. If you saw him when he sees sheep, you would think he had springs in his front legs. But he loves to fetch the sheep!

 

My Josie is 1/2 Aussie (dam) and 1/2 Border Collie (sire). The first time she saw sheep, she rolled around on the ground before she paid attention to them. (The drive home that day was interesting.) The 2nd time she saw them, she went into a 1/2 crouch and gave them the eye. All I know about her parents is her sire is ABCA registered and her dam is a small Aussie.

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I have a question (just wondering) :

 

Do some BC mixes have the crouch/eye (both) trait?

 

And can a full BC NOT have the crouch/eye trait?

 

I'm hoping that I am using the right terms. ;)

 

thanks

 

I think there is probably a continuum. Cerb is a mix and he definitely exhibits both traits...but only once in a while when he's really into it.

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I have a question (just wondering) :

 

Do some BC mixes have the crouch/eye (both) trait?

 

And can a full BC NOT have the crouch/eye trait?

 

I'm hoping that I am using the right terms. ;)

 

thanks

 

Hi Beachdogz ~

 

Yes, some BC-crosses have eye. Our old Dolly definitely had eye - but not the crouch. She worked more upright like her Aussie daddy. I expect other crosses out there may well have both. Kelpies often have that crouch and eye, so a mix of BC/Kelpie could be pretty intensely strong-eyed and crouching.

 

And absolutely purebred, working BCs can be without the intense eye or stylish crouch. My old retired guy, Jesse, is loose-eyed and upright in his working style. At most he just drops his head a bit when working, but he never employed that full crouch. Some dogs are just more loose-eyed or less "stylish" than others.

 

Hope this helps! :)

 

~ Gloria

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Interesting thread. Of the Border Staffies (BC x Staffordshire Terrier) I know, most have similar temperaments, but there are variations as with any "breed." Most are very athletic, driven, bomb-proof, obsessive, affectionate to people, with good off-switches and great work ethic. They can vary in size (from 14" to 20", 20-40#). A few are snarky with other dogs. Some show more BC traits, some (like mine) show more Staffy traits. Some have builds that lean towards one breed or the other; mine looks more like a Staffy.

 

I don't think this particular mix has "toned down" many of the usual BC traits except probably herding ability and stamina. It has pretty much eliminated the scaredy-cat tendencies of a lot of BCs (at least in the ones I've seen).

 

The "newest" cross now are the Border Whippets. I haven't seen or met many of these yet.

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Do some BC mixes have the crouch/eye (both) trait?

 

And can a full BC NOT have the crouch/eye trait?

 

 

Yes and yes. I have a dog that may be a border collie mix (who knows?) and he will crouch and "eye" other dogs during play. But, I think a lot of dogs will do this, border collie or not. I have a foster dog right now that is a very badly bred border collie and he has almost no eye and I've yet to see him crouch. Actually, I've yet to see him act like a border collie at all, LOL!

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The "newest" cross now are the Border Whippets. I haven't seen or met many of these yet.

 

Oh, well, maybe now you have!

 

6059965943_1b174ab24d_z.jpg

 

I thought she was a borderjack when I got her, but it's been suggested by MANY people that she is an Italian Greyhound or Whippet mix. Although honestly, I'm not sure there's any BC in her at all.

 

I've known plenty of border collies without much eye or crouchy behaviours, and been "stalked" by enough Labs and Goldens (and one beagle!) with both to assume just about any dog can eye something and creep up on it :)

 

RDM

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I have sort of come to the conclusion that Sammie might be a Border Collie/Whippet mix.

 

Sammie2.jpg

 

He acts a lot like a lot of Whippets I've known. He doesn't act much like a Border Collie, but he is Border Collie sized, and of course he has the Border Collie color pattern.

 

Of course, I don't know for sure, but it's as good a guess as any and it's the one I've sort of settled on.

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I have a question (just wondering) :

 

Do some BC mixes have the crouch/eye (both) trait?

 

And can a full BC NOT have the crouch/eye trait?

 

I'm fostering a borderjack right now w/o any eye but she does have the crouch. She gets frustrated easily because she does try staring but she doesn't have the intensity and she doesn't make any progress with ducks or goats so then she resorts to head butts! She's been a challenge because she's an active little thing (5 yr old) but doesn't have any desire to be a "sports" dog and sees no reason to jump over obstacles (unless there's a goat behind it). She wants to herd, she's just not good at it!

 

On the flip side, I've got an 8 yo purebred foster who has both the eye and the crouch but has not been exposed to livestock yet.

 

Most of the bc mixes I've fostered have not had either the eye or crouch. Both purebreds I've owned had both and were easily trained on livestock - city dogs don't get to herd except as a hobby - both would have made good "farm dogs."

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Yeah duh I should've remembered lurchers since I used to have one - a BC x Saluki. Super fast, athletic dog. Awesome agility dog.

 

I was thinking more of the recent trend of breeding BW's for flyball. I've seen lots of litters being born and bred lately.

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