BC - What is the "perfect confrmation"?

[nowwown]

Hi, Cody is a AKC Border Collie but looks different than others we have seen. He has classic B/W markings, but much shorter hair, very long and lanky, with a thin long tail and looong legs. He's only four months old so I'm thinking he'll "grow into" a more traditional-looking, longer haired BC. He is just now starting to have "feathers" of hair on his tail and under his belly. Any thoughts on this?

 

PS We never got to see his mom or dad, although the breeder described them both as "traditional B/W BCs".

[Carson Crazies]

Have you read our welcome thread? You can see it HERE .

 

Basically the short answer here is that as a whole the board does not consider conformation (other than that the dog has all of its working parts). We believe that Border Collies should be bred based on working ability, and not conformation or outward appearance. To that vein, we consider that the standard is the work.

[painted_ponies]

I'm not sure I understand your question.

 

I bet you're not planning to show Cody in AKC sanctioned conformation shows. I don't mean anything by this, I just surmised, based on the fact that you never saw either of Cody's parents, that you didn't buy him to show. If not, then how closely he conforms to the AKC standard doesn't matter at all.

 

Are you just curious about what he'll look like when he grows up? For instance, whether he'll be smooth or rough coated? Maybe if you post a picture we could offer some opinions.

 

Or have I misunderstood what you're asking?

[Kat's Dogs]

Again, it DOES NOT MATTER. Like Laura said, read the welcome thread!

 

But, to answer your question - YES at 4 months most dogs will look dorky. Also, IF it is going to be a rough coat, their fur can look almost smooth at that age. The dog is not done growing until about a year - your pup has a long way to go and will look VERY different even from 1 year to 2 (if it is a rough coat).

 

But really, nobody (here) cares about ?long legs" or "short fur" unless it is something medical that needs a vet, or it really hurts the dog's working ability. Even then, lots of people don't herd so it matters even less. So don't worry too much about your dog "looking like the standard". If you didn't know this, then I should say that we are not trying to be rude, or drive you off or any silly thing like that. It is all explained in the welcome thread.

[Allie Oop]

If you've looked at any of the pictures in the Gallery section, you will notice that all of the dogs are very different -- even the black & white "traditional" BCs are not all the same. So, unless you plan on showing your dog in AKC conformation competitions, a shorter coat, thinner tail, etc. really is of no consequence.

 

As Laura mentioned, this particular Board does not center on AKC conformation and breeding, but rather deals with maintaining the working quality of the Border Collie as a breed.

 

My own BC, a 17 mo. old Allie is a pb BC, extremely long-legged and lanky, has a semi-rough coat (medium length) with prick ears. She is also tri-colored. Definitely not conformation material. However, she is wickedly fast, agile and adept at frisbee, ball and (showing an interest in) agility. She is a rescue.

 

Post some pictures of your pup and welcome!

[nowwown]

Hi,

 

Yes, you're right that we don't have any plans to show Cody or breed him, he's just a pet/companion family member and hopefully we will do agility training with him as he gets older. I was indeed very curious about how he may look when he's older. A lot of people have no idea he's a full breed BC since he's so thin with a long body, long legs and very long tail. Hopefully you can see him on my dogster link page or here...any thoughts? Thanks.

[RaisingRiver]

Most people will not think your BC is a BC if it does not look like this:

 

From AKC:

 

But, Border Collies, being bred for how well they work, not what they look like come in a LARGE variety of colors, shapes, sizes and furs. The following website has a great collection of photos of the variety of border collies.

http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museum/Perm...oks_Health.html

 

So if someone doesn't recognize your dog as a border collie, then they really don't know the breed.

 

This is my BC, River at about 9 months old. She'd be considered a classically marked, semi-rough, with prick ears.

[Catu]

Perfect conformation is wathever who allows the dog to perform his task. As soon as the dogs has a nose who permit a correct ventilation, well angled legs with no hip or elbow displasy... it is fine.

 

We prefer to leave the discussion of lenght of coat, ears, muzzle, etc. to owners of poodles.

 

I would recomend you to visite this site to see the diversity in BCs

BC Museum

[Catu]

Hehehehe, We posted the same RaisingRiver... We talking of diversity and ours dogs are almost the copy of each other.

 

 

[nancy]

And that photo of what most folks expect a border collie to look like is about as aberant as a border collie can get. I can just hear the sheep snickering.

 

We've met working border collies all over England - been chased through a farm or two wven on a public footpath. We've seen everything from a virtual fox to a lurcher. All "pure bred". Which seems to mean "a bitch who I know works well and a stud who I know works well".

 

Far as I can tell, a border collie is a border collie because of what it does, not how it looks.

[Lunar]

Basic answer: you never really know how they'll end up. But at that age, looking dorky and funny is very very typical - for any breed.

 

(And most people - strangers, random people, that is - are somewhat dunces when it comes to identifying border collies. So definitely don't take their word for anything.)

[RaisingRiver]

hehe, Catu, you're right!!

 

I like to think of a Border Collie much like a Sporthorse.

[bc friend]

My guess is that at 4 mos, your dog still has his puppy coat and not his double-coated adult coat. The gangly build is like a young teenage boy - they grow into those legs! Other than the AKC standard (which most of us pay no attention to), bc's unlke most breeds come in all sizes, color patterns, markings, etc. You can have a litter of 6 pups which grow up to be different heights, weights, muzzle lengths, colors, etc.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

My Rocky pup is just four months and he's going into the lanky stage. Right now he's faintly reminiscent of a daschund cross - all body and no legs. His coat is minimal - just a little fringe on the tail, though he was clearly rough coated as a little puppy.

 

Even conformation people know that four to six months is probably the worst time to judge how a Border collie is going to look in the future (though they can see the potential at even the worst ages). To us, we just laugh because it doesn't really matter, right?

 

If your dog has soft feathers on his tail he'll most likely be rough coated. He'll probably have a fairly moderate coat, especially if you have him neutered at a typical age, before a year old.

 

As for the question in your title, your dog's legs should be long enough to reach the ground, and get around stock if he needs to, when grown. He should have flexible and sound joints to allow for hard full speed twists and turns. This feature should have been ensured by breeding parents who themselves were capable of the same.

 

He should have a head big enough to contain the brain that his highly trained parents passed on to him.

 

His coat shouldn't need daily grooming to remain healthy after repelling mud and water, heat and cold. His parent's coats should have been, therefore, tested by heat and cold, mud and water.

 

ANything beyond that is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to "conformation". Border collies usually more or less look alike because the dogs that work a certain way are more or less related.

[Kat's Dogs]

From the pictures on dogster - looks just like Dazzle did at that age:

 

around 4 months:

 

And now:

[Dixie_Girl]

The perfect conformation? Thats easy!

1.Must come with a head. Attachments to enclude, two eyes, a nose, mouth w/teeth, and ears (ears can be in any shape or grow in any direction as long as they are attached one to each side of head.

2.Must have legs. These should go from the ground up to the body(to be discussed soon). Paws must be included on the ground part of leg. The legs must be bendable and will be very fast. You may not even notice them unless dog is laying still.

3.Must have a tail or people will call it a Aussie, what ever THEY are! Tail MUST be attached at end of body at highest point.

4.MUST have body. This is to hold all the other stuff together. It also houses the nuclear reactor. Also houses the heart, which is much larger than it appears.

5.Must have fur. If no fur is present, look for small boy with clippers. Fur length and color is not important, it just has to be attached to dog.

6.Must have brain. This will be housed within afore mentioned head. Like the heart, it is much larger than it appears. It also contains instinct. This will be developed in varing degrees, but should have a strong degree of desire to round things up.

7.Charateristics. Well, he WILL be a charactor.

[Dal & Mad's Mom]

This is Maddie she is 23 weeks Thursday

 

 

 

She currently has Whirly ears.

[painted_ponies]

Look at Dazzle! What a transformation! :cool:

Linda - LOL, great response, and how true.

 

Nowwown - If I ever meet anyone who looks at Violet and says "Oh, is that a border collie?" I'll probably fall over from the shock. It's not because she's unusual-looking - she's your typical medium-sized rough-coated B/W BC bitch. Most people ask what she's mixed with. :confused:

 

When I say "she's a border collie," people get a vague look of recognition, as though they've heard of the breed somewhere before.

[nowwown]

Thanks for all the good insights and comments. Dixie Girl, that was just LOL funny! Thanks again, Karen

[Root Beer]

Far as I can tell, a border collie is a border collie because of what it does, not how it looks.

True as that is, I enjoy discussing Border Collie looks. I think the variation in ears, coat color, coat type, size, etc. is extremely interesting. Especially ears!

[smileyzookie]

Wow! Look at Dazzle!! That a beauty!! I love love love those ears. *adding Dazzle to list of dogs to theive.* (she is joining Sandra's Kessie, and Anda's Ouzo lol - I need a bigger stealing van lol)

[Anda]

Smileyzookie, let me know when you'll be in the Denver area....so I can hide Ouzo

LOL, I'd love for you to meet him

[Beth G]

This is Popcorn at 6mos(he is now 8mos)

 

 

 

And Pepper (the pup in front)at 6mos (she is now 8 mos)

 

 

 

Neither are AKC. Poppy is rough coated and Pepper is medium coated.

[smileyzookie]

Originally posted by Anda:

Smileyzookie, let me know when you'll be in the Denver area....so I can hide Ouzo

LOL, I'd love for you to meet him

I'll never tell lol