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Hair loss around eye


JaderBug
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I've had many, many shelter dogs come to me with that hair loss around the eyes and usually some other spots on the face, which I usually assume is demodex. I've never treated it when it is that minor and it has always cleared up in a matter of a few weeks once the dogs get a little healthier. I have treated a couple of dogs, including one of mine when he was a puppy, that had more generalized hair loss. Those dogs all received shots (ivermectin). I would never use the dips. I think the ivermectin is much safer (as did two different vets) than the dips.

 

One of my foster dogs now had mange at the shelter he was in and they had a lot of difficulty getting it under control. They finally used Promeris and it cleared right up. There's something about Promeris that makes me nervous, though. I've heard of a lot of people who's dogs have had bad reactions to it. I have several people in one of my agility classes that are using Promeris right now (for fleas, not mange). A couple said that their dogs got sick and were lethargic after they applied it. Surprisingly, they are still using it. They think that their dogs will eventually get used to it, I guess. Not the choice I would make, if it were one of my dogs getting sick. *shrugs*

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The treatmeant with ivermec is oral. What is on the preventick collar that works? And do they work for fleas?

 

Wonder what is in Promeris that works too?

 

I didn't know it would go away without treatmeant. Maybe that's what happened to Raven. When I got the allgeries and fleas undercontrol the hair just grew back. She is healthy now so wonder if that's it.

 

As for frontline resistant fleas, I was at a trial this weekend with friends who came down from Chiago area. I warned her about our flea issues. When she got here she said she had the same issues up there and now uses Advantage(?) instead of frontline. I'm going to try that next month. Our flea season is coming to an end and Comfortis is really expensive!

 

Kristen

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Not necessarily. Mine have always received shots.

 

Nice to know. I was involved in the local humane society and I guess the oral was cheaper or easier to use. So that's what they did.

 

Yes Karen I'm wondering the same thing. I found a flea on Dew's nose last night. She doesn't have flea dirt on her but darn, I thought we were done with fleas. I know they have to bite to die. To bad! Do you think the Amitraz might work on the fleas?

I'm looking forward to moving to CO if it ever happens. No bugs or at least way less than here! AR is the breeding ground for huge bugs! guess little fleas too!

 

The other day I had to chase a tarantula off my front door. I'm sure it was the same one I swept out the house last week cause he was just to big to kill without making a mess. It's a trip to be driving down the road and see them crossing. OK I admit I'm bug phobic. I run over them if I can. I would never hit a turtle or anyother living creature but I just can't stand spiders and bugs. Right now on my list to die are fleas and scorpions. I kill at least 3-4 scorpions a week in the house. I wake up at night from dozing on the couch to see them crawling across the floor. Always aimed at a dog. Dew is scared of hair bunnies. I'm sure it's cause she was stung by a scorpion and the hair bunnies look like they could be alive! Shiver....

 

Let us know how you decide to treat Jade and the outcome.

Kristen

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Just got back from the vet (again)... I decided to try the Ivomec first and see how it goes. She started Jade on .3 cc for days 1 and 2, then .35 cc for days 3 and 4, and so on until she reaches .5 cc. I am to watch carefully for vomiting, diarrhea, or lethargy. So I guess we'll see how it goes.

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In my experience localized demodectic does exactly what my old farm vet says it does - that is it goes away in 6-8 weeks no matter what you do or don't do to it.

 

I would not subject a dog of mine to the dips, collars, or other poisons - especially for a localized patch. I would make sure they were living a healthy lifestyle that kept the negative stress down as much as possible, and I would rinse the spot with vinegar and water 50/50 mix to keep it clean/prevent secondary infections. I've also used plain lemon juice to rinse. Acidity is the kicker - it kills skin bacteria that can create the secondary infections of the demo. compromised skin.

 

Dogs that are prone to compromised immune systems and break out with this will do so with major life changes (didn't you just move?), breeding stress (heat cycles, or for an intact male being around girls in heat), boarding, competing.... Like us, they are the most out of sorts with stress when they are adolescents. I had a little Aussie male here who got a patch of demo on his muzzle with every major event I took him to from 9 months until he was 2, then it stopped. Coincidentally that was about the same time he started enjoying travelling again!

 

Although they are not "human", they are certainly as mammal as us when it comes to response to chemicals and pesticides. I've known dogs that starting seizing with the very first dip, and others who's "patches" got better but their immune system crashed into autoimmune disease (AIHA, lupus, etc). Obviously these dogs had problems *before* they were treated, but the treatment certainly exacerbated the issue and the severity of expression.

 

You have to be careful that the cure isn't worse than the disease.

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Apologies to the original poster, I realize this thread was started to address the hair loss around the other eye. But the star in the "healthy" eye distracts me.

 

Could that be Persistent Pupillary Membrane? (Also known as PPM?) It's worth doing some research on, if so. The retained strands can cause problems (corneal opacities, small cataracts) though from what I've read, they can also be harmless. There are some simple treatments (eye drops) which may help get rid of it, if that's what it is.

 

PPM can be a heritable genetic condition.

 

I hope the demodex treatment fixes Jaderbug up swiftly with no side effects!

 

* * * *

 

Here is the normal eye (also of the weird fibers in her left eye):
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In my experience localized demodectic does exactly what my old farm vet says it does - that is it goes away in 6-8 weeks no matter what you do or don't do to it.

 

Yes, but too many people want to fix it or get rid of it right away by doing something....It never is "cured" but the expression is no longer there.

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Eak!! Can you say "vacuum"

 

That is how I'd deal with most bugs. Not the scorpions or bigguns. I don't think that one would have sucked into the tube. Big is the key word. And if it did, would it stay alive in the vacuum and cause me nightmares? :rolleyes: For the scorpions I have a special flip flop that I beat the nasty things till they squish. Which is hard to do. The worst one was the one that I looked up and saw on the ceiling. I knew they climbed, but the ceiling? I knoced it off with the broom had to yell at the dogs to get out of the way as they were very interested in what I was doing and then took small pleasure in offing it.

 

Hearing all the info on demodex I'd be tempted to let it be and see what happens. Do you know if she's been under undue stress? Someone mentioned that you just moved?

I know Raven's hair loss was present till I got the fleas under control and we weren't talking a heavy flea infestiation or I'd have noticed, this is a dog that sleeps in my bed most of the day. But add the fleas to her seasonal allgeries and I would think her little immune system was compromised. I'm glad I didn't seek treatment for that too. She is resting just fine now still in my bed!

Good luck with what ever method you choose to go with.

 

Kristen

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Yes, but too many people want to fix it or get rid of it right away by doing something....It never is "cured" but the expression is no longer there.

 

Right. And, it really only becomes a problem if it becomes generalized, but usually the dog is in pretty poor health anyway for it to get to that point. But, mild, localized demodex does not usually cause any problems for the dog. It's not even itchy like sarcoptic mange is.

 

I know that you have decided to treat it. But, you should be aware that it could come back. Usually once a dog has had it, they are likely to have it again at some point. If it was stress-induced, you will probably see it again the next time Jade becomes stressed. You might want to think twice about treating with drugs or chemicals, if it happens again. Mild demodex will not hurt your dog, but there are always inherent risks when using drugs or chemicals. Just a thought.

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That is how I'd deal with most bugs. Not the scorpions or bigguns. I don't think that one would have sucked into the tube. Big is the key word.

 

Waaaaaaaayyyyy to much information :rolleyes:

 

Ditto to leaving her be. I do recall now something about them just moving, we all know what that does to "us"!

 

K

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Yes but every time I get the gun out I decide it would do to much damage to my nice floors. Sad thing is my son is a bug kinda kid. So unless it's a scorpion or brown recluse I call him out of his tomb errrr...bedroom and he takes them outside so they can live to haunt me another day! We made a deal about the scorpions, I told him if he chose to save them he had to do it bare handed. I won! When we first moved down here 3 years ago he was 13, told me he wanted a tarantula for a pet. I caught him one (without ever touching it) the next day and he told me "NO Mom, not that kind, a domesticated kind like at the pet shop!" Needless to say we don't have any pet spiders. Who needs them with all we have!

 

Maybe a bb gun wouldn't damage the floors? :rolleyes:

 

Again, reading all this stuff about demodex, I'm wondering if that's what gets Ray each allergy season. She's a normal healthy dog but the seasonal allgeries due horrible stuff to her 2x's per year and she always loses the hair around her eyes at that time. I always thought is was due itching but now that I'm thinking more about it, she never loses hair anywhere else, her feet get really pink and I can tell she's totally miserable but no hair loss anywhere else. Plus I don't see her rubbing her eyes.

 

Kristen

Waiting not so patiently to sell the farm and move to CO or at least bug/allergy season to end!

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I guess I should have clarified, I know she has seasonal allergies but at that time I'm thinking her immune system is compromised making the demodex come out. Didn't I read that all dogs have this and usually compromised health will let it surface?

 

Ray is already feeling better. This year since I sold all my sheep so the fields got thigh deep. Now that I've taken the hay off it, her allgeries have been subsiding.

Again, I just found a tiny flea on Dew's nose. It was very easy to pick off and kill so I'm thinking the Comfortis is working only they have to bite to die. Wish there was a way to keep them off the dogs. To bad big spiders or scorpions don't eat fleas. We'd be flea free for sure! We could even make some money selling them to people suffering with fleas! :rolleyes:

 

Anyone else have such big bugs coming in to share the house for the fall/winter?

 

Jaderbug,

What have you decided to do with Jade?

 

Kristen

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Didn't I read that all dogs have this and usually compromised health will let it surface?

 

Yes, generally there and they come out with compromised immune systems is what I was told.

 

 

Anyone else have such big bugs coming in to share the house for the fall/winter?

 

Are you kidding! If they're that big and want to stay in the house they damn well better pay the mortgage as well! Or I am sucking them up in the vacuum

 

 

Karen

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Roz's eyes will do this from time to time - - she has what we believe to be contact allergies - mainly grass - - was checked for demodex and it came back negative at the time of the check - she also gets rash on her belly and chest after herding or outdoor agility ( I wipe her down with baby wipes - - aloe type and it works wonders ) - - - the only real change I made was to get her on a really good fish formula food - - Orijin "6 fresh fish" or Wellness Core 'Ocean' are the two I have fed - - and add salmon oil to her food - and her eyes have looked great since - - - I tend to agree with the stress issues and the immune system - - she is a red which I tend to think makes a difference also - allllllllllll those recessive genes at work!!!

 

I think I would try the homeopathic route rather than the chemicals and see how she does - IMHO :rolleyes:

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I was told once to buy a flea collar and every time you change your vacumn cleaner bag you snip off

a few inches and toss it in the bag before attaching it to the machine. If you suck up any fleas it should

do them in. I guess it would work for spiders too?

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I didn't check this thread for a while and missed a good part of the discussion, and even though the discussion has taken off on a bit of a tangent, I want to point out that seemingly healthy dogs being fed well and living "the good life" can have demodex that doesn't clear up without intervention (that is, it's not just a problem of neglected or stressed dogs). I have one such dog, and several different vets told me not to worry about the bare patch on her snout. Finally (after a couple of months or more), it started "pimpling up" and bleeding and once again I consulted a vet, this time at a sheepdog trial. He (bless you Stu) very kindly met me at his clinic, did a scraping, found a mite, and gave me a topical treatment. It cleared up. Maybe it would have eventually cleared up on its own, or once I switched her over to ivermectin (which is my HW preventive, except that I keep puppies on Interceptor for 6 months to a year before switching over), but my point is that demodex can affect even seemingly healthy dogs and it doesn't always just clear up on its own.

 

Jaderbug,

I'm glad you decided to try the ivermectin instead of the dip. I just wouldn't want to risk having a chemical like that put so close to my dog's eye. I dose my dogs with 0.3 cc of ivermectin (0.06% sheep drench) monthly for HW prevention. It's my understanding that even dogs that have the MDR1-1delta mutation would not have adverse effects at such a low dose (this does is 3 x the minimum effective dose for dogs the size of mine). Once I accidentally gave one of my dogs a full milliliter (cc) of ivermectin (this would be a 10x effective dose, at which point a sensitive dog might well have a reaction), with no ill effects. I don't know why vets are still so reluctant to use ivermectin in some breeds, especially those like the border collie, which haven't been found to carry the mutation. If you'd like to point your vet to a very informative website (you probably should read it too), it's here: American Working Collie Association. Note that this site says that even collies that carry the mutation (even homozygous carriers) generally can be given ivermectin and its relative milbemycin oxime (Interceptor) at the prophylactic doses used for HW prevention. This link also provides a list of common drugs that are in the same chemical class as ivermectin. I wonder how many vets have recommended Immodium for dogs with diarrhea but won't recommend invermectin for those same dogs because of "collie sensitivity." Anyway, I always recommend this website because it has good, solid information. It also has a link to the University of Washington, where research on collie sensitivity is being conducted.

 

J.

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Thanks for all the help and suggestions everyone... I'll keep updating on how she's doing. I just started her Ivomec treatment yesterday, it's a liquid oral medicine. The vet had actually mentioned that once the Ivomec regimine is done, she still wants to do a dip, but I guess we'll wait and see. I don't really want to do a dip.... hopefully the Ivomec does the trick.

 

Someone mentioned something topical... what is it, and where might I get it? I'd be a little cautious about applying something so close to her eye though...

 

On a different note, Jade's diet is going pretty well already, I actually notice a tuck on Jade now! She's still flabby around her ribs, but she does look like she has a tuck.

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The standard topical is Goodwinol ointment - I may not be quite right on that spelling. It usually works in 6-8 weeks...

 

Sounds like Julie's dog had a secondary infection. Of course I'm not a vet, but pimples usually are not part of demodex. Also stress is a reality for a dog that travels to trials - heck even training is stressful. It doesn't have to be negative stress, but it's stress all the same. A predisposed dog to immune compromise will fire off a demodectic patch during situations of stress. Keep up the stress and the dog is not going to get well. (and that may be impossible, because a quality active life for a dog is full of normal stress)

 

I don't use ivermectin at all anymore. Had some dogs with decreasing thyroid levels that my vet had a hunch about - and sure enough, when we stopped the ivermectin the levels climbed back up. Her theory is that since ivermectin affects the central nervous system of parasites, that it may also affect dogs more than we think - in particular the thyroid.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for all the help and suggestions everyone... I'll keep updating on how she's doing. I just started her Ivomec treatment yesterday, it's a liquid oral medicine. The vet had actually mentioned that once the Ivomec regimine is done, she still wants to do a dip, but I guess we'll wait and see. I don't really want to do a dip.... hopefully the Ivomec does the trick.

 

Someone mentioned something topical... what is it, and where might I get it? I'd be a little cautious about applying something so close to her eye though...

 

On a different note, Jade's diet is going pretty well already, I actually notice a tuck on Jade now! She's still flabby around her ribs, but she does look like she has a tuck.

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Wendy,

Yep, it was Goodwinol ointment, and I recognize that the bleeding/bumps were not demodex, but the fact is that until those developed, I couldn't get a vet to take notice of the problem (I couldn't get anyone to check for mites--they all dismissed it and said she'd get over it) or offer any treatment for it, even though it clearly wasn't resolving itself over time. And my point about the health thing was that everyone seemed to be implying that rescue dogs and dogs that have had improper care are uniquely prone to demodex, so I wanted to point out that even well-cared-for dogs can have it.

 

J.

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Yup--I had one of my girls have a very mild case of it last year when she had her cycle. Goodwinol was what was prescribed,

A

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