Public perceptions of the breed

[Maralynn]

I was at a multi-team SAR training weekend recently and found it interesting to hear comments about my dogs. Many people there were long time SAR people and a couple have given seminars around the country.

 

People said that they were different than many BCs in their friendliness and general demeanor - no crouching, stalking, not standoffish, not quirky. A couple people said that they loved the breed but it was hard to find a good one so they've gone with a different breed.

 

Kenzi does have an incredibly outgoing personality for a BC. Kolt is more take it or leave it. He's happy to interact with other people/dogs and happy to ignore them and work - pretty much looks for what I want and does it.

 

It was interesting hearing the comments. And rather eye opening. And it kinda made me wonder why the breed is generally seen that way. Is it the breed in general? Where the dogs are coming from/how they're being selected? Or the breed isn't well suited for the handler?

 

I'll readily admit that the first thing I tell people looking at BCs for SAR work is that you need to be a BC person first of all. And that Labs tend to be an overall better choice for many people. But the whole "I love the breed/type but it's so hard to find a good one for the job so I went with another breed" was really interesting to me.

[gcv-border]

I think that what you have describes is a common public perception. Interesting that you heard it from a demographic of experienced dog people.

 

When I was taking my older BC (now 8) to puppy classes, beginning agility and one try at a flyball practice (which I didn't like), I would get admiring comments about my dog, immediately followed by "I like border collies, but I wouldn't want to live with one."

 

I can understand that on several levels: Most people see/interact with ACK border collies owned by people who probably are not the best dog trainers. They could have purchased a BC because of cuteness, for a family dog, for sports, etc. and then found they had a handful (i.e. the quirkiness). Same old story we hear on these Boards many times. I think that most people have been exposed to these dogs rather than the well-trained working dog (or even well-trained pet dog).

 

Heck, I have a friend who has had dogs for a very long time and has trained them in agility, and many years ago, used to teach obedience classes. No border collies though. My dog will lie around the house, but when she and her husband come to visit, my dog is constantly bugging them. She says she could never live with a border collie, but I watch her respond to (reinforce) my dog's demands even after I tell her to just ignore him. I am not sure she even knows what she is doing.

[CptJack]

I think we have to take some responsibility for this ourselves. Very often we're so worried about the unprepared getting a border collie that we play up the potential negatives. Just look at some of the threads, here. And there is REASON we do that, absolutely, and I do it and don't really intend to stop, but those warnings are a lot of what people see/hear/read.

 

Add in WHERE many people see these dogs (agility, flyball, etc.) where they are ramped up and/or focused on a job, or when strangers are in the house and excited things are happening, and the full picture doesn't really get presented.

[medic09]

Apropos Cpt.Jack's comment, are the comments made in the thread about 'preparing for a BC'.

 

When I worked SAR (with a Labrador, and on a non-canine technical rescue team), we worked with a number of Border Collies. I had no biases about them previously, and found them to be flexible, adaptable, very capable dogs. What's more, every one of them was better behaved than my Retriever. Without ignoring the characteristics of the breed and why they are (see Capt.Jack's response to me on that other thread), a lot depends on individual personality. I found that the breed's intelligence, drive/focus, and ability to problem solve when out of sight was just about perfect for SAR. What's more, a medium size dog was big enough to go anywhere the other dogs went in the wilderness, and was more able to get into smaller spaces like caves. The smaller size also made them easier to carry out when injured (did that once, with my Lab on leash and pack on), easier to handle in a harness on a rope, or in a helicopter. And the breed is as rugged and durable as others, being able to handle varied terrain and really severe weather conditions.

 

Can you tell I'm a convert?

[Cass C]

My agility trainer had one border collie (who was very well trained) and she said that she liked the dog, but it was not a breed she meshed with. Not only because of the energy level, but also the quirkiness. It was something that she had a hard time living with, where most of us enjoy and embrace the random BC quirks.

 

I think the reason we always tell people the 'bad' things about BCs is that if the negatives don't seem so bad to you then you're probably a border collie person. If all we talked about was the good side then I don't think we would do the breed justice.

[GentleLake]

I hear this as well, and as others have said, often from experienced dog people. and as others have also said, their only experience with border collies has been with sporter collies and/or at competition events where even the calmer dogs have been amped up to compete. So I can kinda understand why they'd think this, and honestly, with all the border collie hype these days it's just fine by me.

 

And, yes, too few people understand how the ways they behave around the dogs can influence their behaviors. Years ago a friend watched my little Wren dog for a weekend. She knew this dog, but when I came home she said she didn't understand how I could live with her. She'd had to throw the ball for her all weekend! To which I responded, did you try telling her "no"? Of course, she hadn't. Wren was a busy little dog, but she had a good off switch. If I didn't want to play with her ATM, I'd tell and she'd go lie down. But obviously in the wrong hands she could be insufferable.

[Maralynn]

I think we have to take some responsibility for this ourselves. Very often we're so worried about the unprepared getting a border collie that we play up the potential negatives. Just look at some of the threads, here. And there is REASON we do that, absolutely, and I do it and don't really intend to stop, but those warnings are a lot of what people see/hear/read.

 

Add in WHERE many people see these dogs (agility, flyball, etc.) where they are ramped up and/or focused on a job, or when strangers are in the house and excited things are happening, and the full picture doesn't really get presented.

 

I'd agree with this if the comments were based on hearsay. But the comments I got were from people who see the dogs who have been selected/in training for SAR work and drawing conclusions based on that. So, from what they're observing, they're not seeing dogs that that makes them want to go with a Border Collie for SAR even though they do like the breed.

 

But they saw Kolt and went "where did he come from? he's a nice dog!"

 

(not that I'm trying to boast, just accentuating what I heard!)

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

When I brought Luke and June into Washington Square Park's dog park a woman asked me what they were.

"Border Collies."

"No they're not."

"Er . . ."

"I'm a professional dog walker. They can't be Border Collies. They're calm."

 

When I wrote Nop's Trials I thought long and hard whether I should warn people away from the breed. I did, I do and will. Most stockmen have seen them work and if they need a dog that's what they pick and I'd rather have dog ignorant pet people believe they never make good pets. Bad press = fewer dogs in rescue.

 

Donald McCaig

[SS Cressa]

With how variant the breed is i can appreciate someone dedicated for SAR picking a different breed. It could have depended on the dog, the breeding, their stage in training, how they were trained, etc...

In agility how many people loved my girl and were super impressed... yet they never saw her when we were training or her quirks.

 

Another border collie i had was dog aggressive and anxious.

 

My youngest border collie i constantly have to tell people he isnt typical of the breed. He LOVES everyone specially kids. When i babysit friends kids i end up having to tell the kids to knock it off, not because the dog is stressed or worried but because most dogs would NOT tolerate a kid doing that. When things get crazy he just chills... etc

 

Haha of the 12 border collies i have lived with and dealt with over the years... 3 were relatively easy to live with and could handle themselves in any situation without a lot of quirks or issues. 3 would have been perfect in a single pet home(2 are now the only pet and are thriving there). 7 are really quirky that you had to deal with/manage.

 

Of the 12 border collies 3 were AKC paper, 1 didnt have papers, and the rest were ABCA just to showing variation

 

* to clarify I did not own all 12 border collie!

[CptJack]

I'd agree with this if the comments were based on hearsay. But the comments I got were from people who see the dogs who have been selected/in training for SAR work and drawing conclusions based on that. So, from what they're observing, they're not seeing dogs that that makes them want to go with a Border Collie for SAR even though they do like the breed.

 

But they saw Kolt and went "where did he come from? he's a nice dog!"

 

(not that I'm trying to boast, just accentuating what I heard!)

 

Ah, well, in that case, I think sometimes maybe it's the same kind of thing as the dog sitting thread? I don't like labs. Nothing's wrong with labs, but if you asked me to identify/explain why I don't like most but do like the odd one I'd probably say 'But he's not insane/acting like a goofball!" while what I actually mean is that for whatever reason the dog doesn't get under my skin.

 

Sometimes it's goofishness/clownishness, sometimes it's rudeness, and sometimes it's just that the dog is forward. Unfortunately, sometimes, it's that the dog is just too happy, but trying to explain that you don't like their dog because it seems to happy is just...inappropriate and mean.

 

Or I'm projecting. Who knows.

[mum24dog]

Out of 28 Lakeland Mountain SAR dogs 24 are BCs, 2 Labs, 1 Lab x BC and a GSD. No anti BC prejudice there.

[medic09]

Out of 28 Lakeland Mountain SAR dogs 24 are BCs, 2 Labs, 1 Lab x BC and a GSD. No anti BC prejudice there.

I noticed years ago that BC dogs as SAR dogs are far more common in Great Britain than they are in the US or Canada.

[Cody & Duchess]

"Public perception of the breed".....my border collie Cody was a stray before a rescue picked him up seven years ago.He is my constant shadow now, with me 24/7. Traveled all over the U.S. He is bullet proof in his commands, love almost all people and really tolerant of all animals. Most amazing dog ever. I cannot even count the times where total strangers tell me I should not have a border collie because he needs to be working sheep. That he is a working dog. Really? His other option was rescue or worse. I always thought this perception odd.

[alligande]

I always thought border collies were unsuitable as pets especially in suburbia, until we accidentally adopted a pretty mut who after awhile we realized was a border collie. He was a great pet who led us into our next two and all the ones we have fostered and most have been good pets and had no issues living in a town. But as others have noted they can be a pain unless you tell them to stop, Rievaulx will throw tennis balls at the feet of any one who comes to this house, and most start the game and leave thinking he is a pest, they don't see the dog who spends most of his day in a comfy spot asleep.

Border collies suit us, we enjoy the quirky character and also their rather gentle nature. I have a friend who is a dog trainer who has a border collie, a border/Aussie ( and a few other random mixes) and to me she is to heavy handed with them, she tries hard not to over correct etc and since I met her she has come along way with both, but her personality really meshes with her young Mallinois they seem to get each other, while she struggles to understand her collies, while I love him his drive and focus are superb I would not want him.

[Pam Wolf]

Sometimes you get what you believe. If your idea is that a BC is shy, crouching, hyper, then you allow it. I think this is much of the problem with people perceiving the BC that way. Yes, they are quirky. But then, so are all breeds in their own way. Labs, Goldens etc are mouthy-often wanting to grab owner's hands-but most people don't like that so they do something about it. If you don't like the quirks, you modify them-which is what many do with the BC. But often people get BC because they think they want a "smart" dog without realizing you should be smarter than the animals you keep

[Tommy Coyote]

That quirkiness is what I love. My dogs are endlessly entertaining.

[Mark Billadeau]

I wonder if some of the issues are related to how good of a job the Kennel clubs have done in "educating" the public on the consistency (appearance and behavior) of the individuals within each breed. Then if someone has interactions with a few individuals behaving the same way they think that is what the entire breed is like.

[juliepoudrier]

Funny, but I consider all of my border collies, past and present, to be pretty normal dogs.

 

J.

[D'Elle]

I have found regional differences in what people think of border collies.

In central Oregon, for instance, I noticed that they are used for cattle dogs a lot and are thought of as utility dogs, but not too often are they considered pets. Often they are not allowed in the house. And their tails are almost always docked.

 

Here in AZ people are often amazed that I have more than one border collie and ask me how I manage that. My reply depends on the person I am talking to.

 

I do warn people away from border collies, although usually I don't say anything negative about the breed, but rather am inclined to tell people that it is not a breed to have unless you are really into having a dog and are seriously interested in doing things with your dog and spending a lot of time with him or her.

[GentleLake]

Funny, but I consider all of my border collies, past and present, to be pretty normal dogs.

 

LOL Me, too. I've often wondered if I had the same breed of dog as all the people who talk about their outrageously quirky border collies. Mine have always been pretty regular dogs. I think a lot of it could be the expectations people have.

 

My most difficult dogs have been my mixed breeds, including the presumed-but-not-verified border collie mixes.

[medic09]

I wonder if some of the issues are related to how good of a job the Kennel clubs have done in "educating" the public on the consistency (appearance and behavior) of the individuals within each breed. Then if someone has interactions with a few individuals behaving the same way they think that is what the entire breed is like.

Probably a good point. When they've seen those perfectly coiffed, robotic dogs at the shows; they think that's what the dog is supposed to be like. Well, my dogs are often muddy, have burrs or twigs caught in their hair, and have personalities. I do require they be well-mannered; but other than that I allow them their personalities and endearing (and not so endearing) qualities. I don't want to break or stifle them; I want to live and (in the past) work with them.

[medic09]

Funny, but I consider all of my border collies, past and present, to be pretty normal dogs.

 

J.

Maybe all you folks on here are just quirky and weird yourselves, and can't see it? Not me, of course.

[Maralynn]

Funny, but I consider all of my border collies, past and present, to be pretty normal dogs.

 

J.

Same here. Even the ones that came with quirks and issues ended up pretty normal.

[GentleLake]

I do warn people away from border collies

 

As a rule, other than cautioning folks with small children, I don't warn people away from border collies, unless of course there's a clear reason someone might not be suited for them.

 

But I do ask them to consider very carefully about whether or not they're ready invest the time and effort into providing the mental stimulation that they need, which often seems more human-like in its nature than dog-like.

 

And I point out what great problem solvers they are, and that if their problem is boredom they will solve the problem and I can pretty much guarantee they won't like the way they've solved it.

 

That last bit usually gets people's attention.

[GentleLake]

Maybe all you folks on here are just quirky and weird yourselves, and can't see it?

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Medic. :lol:

 

But, of course not you (or me)!