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My 10 month old border collie Maverick is awesome. He wants to please and has learned "most" of his basic commands. Although I feel his recall is not solid unfortunately. When he is outside and distracted he comes to my command but sometimes he thinks "naw I'm gonna keep walking or running" after he has looked at me. He had an introduction to herding (sheep) about 2 weeks ago and we both loved it! I want him to chase geese since we don't have a working farm but have tons of geese throughout many populated neighborhoods. We were chasing geese for the second time in his life yesterday and he got distracted when they were in the center of the pond since he hasn't been introduced to swimming yet. He got distracted by a bicyclist and ran after her in the middle of the road. People drive down our road at 50mph!! He would NOT listen to my come command or his name. Finally he ran off the road and I was calling him and he was running away. I was so scared he was going to run out after a car after this. He actually started to run away from me. I finally got him back on his lead. When we walk near the street he lunges toward every car, truck, and motorcycle that drives by. I DO NOT want this behavior! I love this dog and do not want him to get killed. What's the best remedy for this? I do not want to shock him in any way (invisible fence or shock collar). I read a thread posted on here from 2011 that suggested sitting by the road until he calms down and reward him when he is calm. I like the sound of that. But how do I react when he is going crazy every time a car goes by? Do I tell him NO and pull his lead? Do I ignore him and act like it's no big deal so he feels the same? Any advice would be MOST appreciated!! I know now that I am NOT going to release him off the lead even if we are chasing the geese since it is so close to the road. Please help. Thanks in advance! :)

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I would want a dog with a solid recall before I sent him out after sheep or geese. Recall training - either with recall games, keeping him on a long line or other techniques - will need to be proofed in the presence of distractions.

 

As far as the lunging at cars, etc., there have been many threads (usually in the General Discussion section) dealing with dogs that are highly reactive to such stimuli. The general advice is to get the Puppy 'Control Unleashed' book and follow the LAT training. Sitting by the side of the road and rewarding for calm behavior will probably not work in your situation since Maverick is so over threshold every time he sees a car coming, that he will never offer calm behavior. (Yes/No?) You have to start at a distance far enough away from the distraction (car) that your dog will see the car, but you can still catch him in some calm behavior so you can reward him. Set him up for success, not failure. If you sit 50 feet off the road and he reacts to a car passing, then you will have to move back to start your training at 100 feet away, or 200 or 300 feet away. It all depends on Maverick.

 

I am sure others will also offer more advice. Also, use the Search function at the top of the page to access past threads.

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thanks. I did use the search function at the top of the page that's how I heard of the "sitting by the side of the road and rewarding him when he is calm". I have been out with him at a distance from the road and he is ok. He doesn't chase after them when we are at a distance. If we are within maybe 30ft or so is when he can't handle it. Farther away than that he doesn't have a problem.

 

Geezer chasing geese is a profitable business where I am located. Actually there aren't any businesses around me so that's why it would be a perfect area (my county in Ohio) to start such a business. That would be my "long term goal".

 

GCV what is LAT training? I will look up that book though. Thanks

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If this behavior has been allowed for much of this dog's young life, it's going to be more challenging(but not impossible) to curb this behavior. Find a trainer in your area that knows how to deal with behavior like this to help you out, along with the other suggestions members have mentioned.

 

Samantha

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If this behavior has been allowed for much of this dog's young life, it's going to be more challenging(but not impossible) to curb this behavior. Find a trainer in your area that knows how to deal with behavior like this to help you out, along with the other suggestions members have mentioned.

 

Samantha

 

 

This. Keep him on a leash or long line when you are out with him in the meantime. Do NOT let him chase any more geese. You should contact people who are engaged in geese abatement if possible. Do a Google search and send some emails if there is nobody local.

 

The point is, there's a lot more to it than just letting your dog merrily have a go at random geese. Goose dogs are highly trained and very obedient - for the very reasons you mention. If a dog is clearing geese on an airport runway, he can't just chase them willy-nilly or he could force the geese straight into an oncoming plane - or put himself under the wheels of a landing jet. If a dog is removing geese from a golf course or neighborhood green, he must listen to and obey commands or he'll end up underneath a passing truck.

 

Please do not attempt to teach your dog goose abatement by letting him chase neighborhood geese on his own. You wouldn't let a dog try to learn sheep herding that way, so don't let him try to learn goose management that way. Goose abatement is a job. You and the dog need training to learn it. Right now all he knows is that he's chasing - and without training, as you've seen, he can't differentiate between the fun of chasing geese and the fun of chasing cars and bicycles.

 

Until you and he are both trained in the job, please don't let him chase any more geese. Get your training. Learn the job.

 

Best of luck!

 

~ Gloria

P.S.

Chasing things will negatively impact his sheep training, as well. And it will probably also feed into his reactivity with passing vehicles. No more chasing geese. No more chasing, period.

 

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One more thought - if you search the boards for reactive dogs, you'll surely find much more detailed information. But meanwhile, a thing to bear in mind that there will be a certain distance at which the dog begins to react to passing vehicles. Whether it's 20 feet, 50 feet, 100 feet or more, watch him while on leash with you and see at what distance he can listen to you and relax. Your job then is to keep him at or further than that distance to keep him under threshold and only very, very gradually - feet or yards at a time - begin to increase his proximity to bikes and things that excite him. If he lunges and reacts, you're too close. Get further off the path or road. He cannot listen or learn if he's too close and over his mental threshold. He can only learn when he's right at the edge of that distance and still able to focus on you.

I'm sure others will offer much more detailed info than that. Remember also that he is still VERY young, very much a puppy and very immature in his mind. His impulse control is going to take time to develop. Best of luck! :)

~ Gloria

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I would start training him NOT TO CHASE ANYTHING. I think you need to see goose work differently - he needs to be taught to WORK geese and round them up - not chase them but bring them to you. May indeed have the same effect for the geese but will be a different mind set for you and him. Chasing has nothing to do with you or being a partner - rounding up/ bringing things to you is all about you.

 

Movement kicks in their instinct which is telling them to do something with whatever is moving. I do not begin training in an area of any size till I can stop them and call them back. We start walking a pasture with sheep with pups on a leash then long line then dragging a line ect.

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Thank you so much! Gloria your advice was awesome. This is the reason I come here is to get good advice from people have have experience. I agree with the "chasing" vs. "herding" concept.

Do you think if we keep with the sheep herding training that some day he would be able to transition to geese? I would love for some day to be able to herd geese with my dog and possibly earn some money doing it. However, if that never comes to reality I just want my dog to be active and happy. Perhaps we will continue to train with sheep. And I love my pup so much that after some more training my wife and I are considering buying some sheep just so he can be happy and active. We have a 1 acre fenced in horse pasture and plan to get two horses next year since we had to put our last horse down last year we are taking a year off before we get horses again.

How about chickens? Could I have my pup herd chickens? Or are chickens to crazy? We have 6 chickens. We have 4 sweet barn cats that Maverick likes to herd. He never hurts them and they love him and rub on him but he sure does circle them when they are running and he gets them to stop. Maverick is a lot of fun. I never want him to be bored.

I love the advice I get on here as long as I don't get attacked. The advice all of you have given me on this thread has been helpful and kind. Thank you again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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How about chickens? Could I have my pup herd chickens? Or are chickens to crazy?

 

In my admittedly limited experience, that seems to depend entirely on the dog.

 

When I had dogs who were actively doing livestock work, one dog was fantastic working the chickens. He was very intense with sheep and was my then husband's working dog so I didn't take him to the sheep often, but worked him quite a bit on chickens at home. In fact, I really perfected his drive and taught him his "look back" in the yard with the chickens, which then translated to better sheep work in the larger field. We had a wicked attack rooster whom he treated with great forbearance, allowing him to fly into his face several times before he'd take matters into his own teeth, but he never hurt the rooster, just mouthed him till he'd calm down and move along. He'd never have tolerated that much from any of the sheep; he could be a bit rough with them at times.

 

OTOH, my working bitch, a very fine sheepdog, couldn't be bothered with the chickens. They didn't flock like the sheep did and Twill would end up in the middle of them looking at me like "WTF? This is nuts" and walk away from them. Mirk could keep them in a flock and their looseness was what gave me lots of opportunities to work on his "look back" and taught him to pay close attention to stragglers to keep them together. He got to be so good with the chickens and could do such lovely precision work I used to wish there were chicken dog trials that we could enter. :lol:

 

I guess you'll have to find out for yourself how Maverick is with chickens. ;)

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Thank you so much! Gloria your advice was awesome. This is the reason I come here is to get good advice from people have have experience. I agree with the "chasing" vs. "herding" concept.

Do you think if we keep with the sheep herding training that some day he would be able to transition to geese? I would love for some day to be able to herd geese with my dog and possibly earn some money doing it. However, if that never comes to reality I just want my dog to be active and happy. Perhaps we will continue to train with sheep. And I love my pup so much that after some more training my wife and I are considering buying some sheep just so he can be happy and active. We have a 1 acre fenced in horse pasture and plan to get two horses next year since we had to put our last horse down last year we are taking a year off before we get horses again.

How about chickens? Could I have my pup herd chickens? Or are chickens to crazy? We have 6 chickens. We have 4 sweet barn cats that Maverick likes to herd. He never hurts them and they love him and rub on him but he sure does circle them when they are running and he gets them to stop. Maverick is a lot of fun. I never want him to be bored.

I love the advice I get on here as long as I don't get attacked. The advice all of you have given me on this thread has been helpful and kind. Thank you again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Whether he transitions from sheep to geese depends entirely on the dog. My old boy, Jesse, refused to work fowl of any type until one day a friend was trying to put geese up a ramp into a horse trailer. My friend's dog needed backup and apparently Jesse realized the situation and stepped right up - and then worked geese willingly thereafter.

 

But my current two dogs refuse to admit that geese exist. :P So you'd have to find someone with some nice, dog-broke geese for your boy to learn on. Untrained geese can beat the poo out of an unsuspecting dog!

 

As for chickens, again, it depends. A dog can't be rough and wild with chickens or they lose their tiny minds. Just remember what while "herding" is an instinct, it requires training to get a good result. Otherwise it's like putting a 5 year old at the piano and letting him bash away. :D

 

~ Gloria

 

 

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Your dog can be quite happy without ever having worked sheep, there are plenty of activities for dog and human to do together.

Quinn has become the head chicken man. There are usually a few stragglers every night that don't want to go into the coup so Quinn's favorite job next to sheep is bringing in the wayward chickens. Meg on the other hand sees it as beneath her to work the goofy critters. Chickens are very fragile compared to sheep so the dog has to treat them right. Chickens don't flock like sheep; ducks might be better. I know a few people who have ducks for herding because they don't have the acreage for sheep.

 

Word of caution, since your dog already has a habit of chasing things, when you get horses please do not let him chase them, that could end up very badly for your dog.

 

Samantha

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Canada geese are protected by the Migratory Bird Act of 1918. You'll need to find out exactly what you're allowed to do for goose control, and at what time of year.

 

Good luck w/your training and business pursuits - there used to be someone who did goose abatement work on the BC Boards, but it's been a while since I've seen a post about goose work.

 

Ruth and Gibbs, who would love to try to work some turkeys. Which I will NOT let him do.

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You've gotten some great advice so far!

 

One of my three dogs likes to be the Chicken Dog. Very helpful when I'm stuck with snow-blind chickens (after a blizzard) who refuse to move or to go back into the coop and I don't feel like digging the path through the Deep Snow to retrieve them. Or I'll allow him to "harass them" if they're on the side of the fence where I don't feel they're safe (I'd rather have them protected by the working side of the hotwire, and I dread the day when they discover my vegetable garden). The other two dogs would rather just pretend the chickens don't exist.

 

I agree with what Ruth has to say - you'd best check out the regulations concerning Canada geese, otherwise you could run afoul (pun intended) of the law and incur fines. I'm pretty sure that people who run goose abatement services have to be licensed/have special permits.

 

I do know several dogs who have become goose dogs. In most cases they had the basic sheep training down first. For one reason or another they weren't making it as sheepdogs, or perhaps the owner realized they'd be happier as goose dogs. Agree with what others are saying about "don't let them chase". Oh, and not all dogs are willing to swim... so it's not a given that every dog can become a goose dog.

 

About keeping sheep ... you should check your local zoning ordinances. In my county you need three acres to keep sheep. On a single acre you could probably only keep five sheep. They'd get tired pretty soon from being worked, and sour, overly-dogged sheep aren't anywhere near as much fun to work.

 

I think you might have more success with keeping ducks (e.g., Indian Runner Ducks) for training purposes. (Assuming you can put up with the messiness of ducks - I'd rather keep chickens, myself).

 

Also agree with what others have said. A dog will be happiest and most fulfilled with lots of human interaction. Just because a dog is doing what it was bred to do (working stock) doesn't mean it's happy if it's spending most of its life in a kennel or crate. (JMO). With 11 acres on our own small sheep farm, I really don't have enough chores to keep all three dogs busy each day. You have to make time to do things with them, even if it isn't stock work.

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wow! ALL of you have given me such great advice! I actually want to print and save some of your responses so I can use them to reference when I move ahead. The more I research, talk, and think about goose abatement the more I am leaning towards NOT getting into it. However, I constantly see goose problems all around me where people are in dire need of getting them off of the property. I am taking it slowly and I am going to have fun trying all training aspects with Maverick. I believe we will continue with sheep herding first and see where that leads us.

Thanks all!!!!! :)

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Hello Buckeye Man! I am also a fellow Buckeye, living in NE Ohio, and I also have a border collie who was a car chaser as a puppy.

If I were you, I would avoid allowing your dog to chase the Canada Geese completely. It can be very frustrating for these dogs, as the geese can fly away. I have had many dogs that love chasing them, and forcing them to fly off, but with my border collie, I have been told that it can make them crazy, because they can not gather the geese. You definitely need a good recall with your dog, or you may lose him!! My boy, Pete, is also a difficult and independent-minded dog, so I have to be careful about where he is allowed to run loose. I still can not walk him anywhere near a road where there are cars! He hears them, and he goes into his crouch and stares at the road! He is six years old now, and I am finally able to get him to cross roads, and not worry about the possibility of cars coming along! Some of them are like that, and it can be very difficult to change their minds!

If you want to train him on ducks, domestic ducks that will not fly away, then do so. Also, get him on sheep. Work on his recalls and his downs, go outs and stops at home. Make it game that he can enjoy. If you need somewhere in Ohio to work him on sheep or ducks, please feel free to contact me. We'll get you going!

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