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Question about Bluegrass Classic Result

dq rt std results Bluegrass

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#1 Tilly's Handler

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:07 AM

I was looking at the results for the Bluegrass Classic.

The heading of rt/dq on the second round results has a number of dogs listed std

Can some one please let me know what that is.

I have tried to find it but was unable.

 

Dan and Tilly



#2 NCStarkey

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:47 AM

Hi Dan, 
 
I believe that "std" was noted on some of the runs because there was a "standard" number of points that was set for the run.  So, if by a certain point in the run, the team had lost sufficient points so that their score couldn't surpass the "standard" set by the judge, they were excused. 
 
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#3 Mark Billadeau

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:54 AM

Likely a Standard was used during the second round of open and the dogs listed with std were called because the points they had lost at that point in the run exceeded the standard.  The standard would be set such that any dog that lost that many points would not make it into the placings.

 

I see Nancy posted as I was composing.


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#4 Tilly's Handler

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 10:46 AM

Thank you very much for answering this question for me was trying to find a reference and was unable to.

Do most open trials work this way or was there a reason short for time ect that meant they had to do this to save time.

Just trying to educate myself a little more

 

Thanks

 

Dan & Tilly



#5 Sue R

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:19 PM

Delays due to storms meant we were running behind and this was one way to make up time with runs that were not productive or progressing. Not our desire to do this but necessary in the second Open to finish.
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#6 Tilly's Handler

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:28 PM

Thanks Sue for answering the rest of the question

 

 

Dan & Tilly



#7 NorthfieldNick

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:35 PM

Unlike a DQ or RT, STD was treated like a Time- the handler still got their points "on the board" at the BG. It didn't count much for placings, but it could help with points toward qualifying for finals, if the Open classes were run as separate trials (I'm not sure they were- Sue?). A couple people only ran in one Open class, and at least once handler who DQ'ed in round I did quite nicely in round II.


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#8 Debbie Meier

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 02:16 PM

hmm, I would have thought that there would be 2 different standards, one to make it to the double lift finals and the second for the top 20% of the class.  Or maybe there was.


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#9 jomur

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:28 PM

When a standard is used at a trial ,it is usually a "floating" score. Usually you wait until 20% of the dogs have run ie the number of dogs who  will get USBCHA points . The lowest score of those 20 % is the standard for the next dog . As subsequent  scores are made if higher than the original standard ,the standard will change upwards. If lower the dog would have been called off for the standard. To manage this fluctuating standard score ,the trial management should place the score sheets in descending order . The score sheet at the end of the 20% is the standard--as an example lets say that the 20% score is 60 and that is the 13th dog to run (ie there are 65 dogs in the class) . .As score sheets are added in the descending order , the 13th score sheet is always the standard . The judge or judges and scribes are told this number and when a handler loses sufficient points to score him below the standard ,he/she is called off . Because 20% of the total number of dogs is used ,nobody called for standard may get USBCHA points.

 

An arbitrary standard score might also be selected at the beginning of a trial ,however , when I first encountered a trial that did this, problems were caused by some handlers placing higher in the standings by timing out with a score lower than the standard, than those called by the standard. Many arguments ensued because of this.



#10 airbear

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 04:37 PM

hmm, I would have thought that there would be 2 different standards, one to make it to the double lift finals and the second for the top 20% of the class.  Or maybe there was.


There absolutely were two standards. By the time I ran (113) the USBCHA cut off was about 70 and the double lift was about 135. So if your run was at a point where you wouldn't be able to get more than 70 and/or a cumulative score of about 135, you were called to a standard, though you could keep your points til then. Really did help make up time. Even more impressive, the judge was able to do the math in his head, and he knew exactly what the cut-offs were.

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#11 Sue R

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:10 PM

The judge, Michael Gallagher (Ireland), was extremely sharp. I kid you not that he could tell out of the corner of his eye if I put down a wrong number or did my math wrong when I was scribing. He and a scribe, or he and an assistant who was there for that very purpose, kept track of the standards.

We used Michael's method in the judge's booth (a paper with a running list of the top 27 scores for the Open II and the top 20 scores for the combined) and another method in the White House (using paper "score sheets" that we stacked - when a new score was placed within the stack, the bottom score came off - as we had to keep track of which teams had which score, as well as the score numbers).

I have to do this several years ago when we had two judges per class, and that was interesting to say the least but I was scribing for the "call-off" judge and so I had to be very careful with my math.

These are two Open trials - each is separate and with its own points. 27 dogs (20% of 134) earn points per trial so the standard went into effect after 27 teams had scores, not DQ or RT.
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#12 Tess's Girl

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 06:29 PM

The judge, Michael Gallagher (Ireland), was extremely sharp. I kid you not that he could tell out of the corner of his eye if I put down a wrong number or did my math wrong when I was scribing. He and a scribe, or he and an assistant who was there for that very purpose, kept track of the standards.

 

I will second this. I was fortunate enough to get to scribe for Michael Gallagher Saturday evening when everyone was running to a standard. It was quite the education. Time-wise I think we ended up finishing a bit early, so the standard worked for it's purpose, all the lost time was made up.


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#13 Tilly's Handler

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 06:17 AM

Does calling off the dog/retiring part way through a run have any affect on the dog such as the dog thinking it has made a mistake.

I ask this because some dogs seem to pick up on changes to what they feel they should be doing as a correction. or if the handler was annoyed might read this as well

Or is it a case of once a dog reach's the open level it is not effected the same way as a novice/young dog

 

Dan & Tilly 



#14 Sue R

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 11:52 AM

All dogs that work need to have a good "that'll do" command. When you teach it, it's important that it's not a negative thing and that it doesn't necessarily mean that the work is *all done*. When training, you use it to end what you are doing and may very quickly return to another exercise or repetition of what you are doing.

In my mind (and this is what I want my dogs to associate with it) is that it means, "That's good, that's enough for now" rather than "That's bad, you stop!" It does not mean "No!" but rather "Good but done now" whether that's for the day or the moment.

Now, when I have a dog that persists in something, I may use it with a sterner tone of voice (or a "That will do" rather than "That'll do" but it's still not as much a correction but a redirection that what he/she is doing is not bad but it's over for now. I save "Leave it" or "No" for things that are not good or not right or shouldn't be done.

This way, the dogs do not associate "That'll do" with anything more negative than that they have to stop *for now* and not that there's anything *wrong* with what they are doing.
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#15 Tilly's Handler

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 01:28 PM

Thanks Sue 

That was a very good explanation 





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