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Why use a Shepherd's Whistle vs other whistles?


Chanse
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So I have a border collie that is not a stock dog, but wanted an opinion from stockdog trainers. I've decided to do whistle training with my pup, mostly for the recall command, but I also want to do treibball in the future and I imagine a whistle will be helpful.

 

I've never done whistle training before and I'm not concerned about being able to do it. My question is just why to use a shepherd's whistle versus a gundog whistle like the acme 210.5. The shepherd's whistle definitely seems more complicated and with the acme 210.5 I would never have to worry about blowing the wrong pitch. I would loose the ability to use pitch in my command, but can still vary the length and number of blasts, which would be easier then controlling the pitch. It seems like this would provide a more consistent command. Also, those gundog whistles can be super loud (that is a plus for me, but probably a downside to anyone near me).

 

I imagine that I can't really go wrong because I could train the dog with anything (maybe I should break out my alto sax?). So I am basically just looking for some opinions. Also, answering this question would help: why would you not want to us a single pitch whistle like the acme 210.5?

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Simple answer (you more or less give it yourself); the shepherds whistle has a variable pitch (you regulate it with the shape of your tongue, not unlike regular or finger whistling), unlike the single pitch whistle you mention.

This means it is much easier to design a lot of different commands.

It is not as difficult as some people make it out to be (especially if you can finger whistle).

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It is not as difficult as some people make it out to be (especially if you can finger whistle).

 

Ha! Tell that to someone like me who never learned to use a shepherds' whistle, though from no lack of trying.

 

Of course, I can't finger whistle to save my life either. But my regular whistle (not a musical whistle [can't do that either], but a bit louder and stronger) was fine for relatively short distances. I imagine I'd be in trouble on a hill farm, though.

 

But, yes, the variation in pitch is the advantage of a shepherds' whistle over a single pitch whistle. You may not actually need that much finesse for what you're wanting to do with it though. That's something only you'd know.

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Variation in pitch, not number of blasts tells the dog what you want. Right, left, slower, faster, stop. You don't really need a loud whistke anyway. You won't be doing long outruns. What is treiball? A dog sport?

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Yes, Treibball is a dog sport where the dog moves a large ball around according to the handler's directives.

 

A lot of Treibball is done indoors, is it not? If that's the case, I can definitely see a downside to a whistle you can't control the volume of.

 

And even when it's done outdoors, is the dog at enough of a distance from the handler to warrant a very loud whistle?

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Variation in pitch, not number of blasts tells the dog what you want. Right, left, slower, faster, stop. You don't really need a loud whistke anyway. You won't be doing long outruns. What is treiball? A dog sport?

 

Hmm, I didn't think of things like speed. Gundog whistle training does have standard commands for changing direction, but nothing like faster and slower. I knew that pitch control would definitely increase the variety of whistles that I could do. I think this would have been a better question for me to ask:

 

How many commands do you teach using a whistle?

 

I think gundogs usually have about 4 main commands: come, stop/down, resume, and change direction. They haven't exactly exhausted the number of distinct whistle commands that could be achieved with a single pitch whistle, but I do realize that it is very limited compared to a shepherd's whistle. So basically, I think I was wondering if stockdog's are generally taught enough commands to justify using an extra variable (which is pitch). To me it seems like a gundog whistle would be easier to train with. The handler doesn't need to practice with one of those whistles to achieve pitch control, and I imagine that a consistent single pitch would help speed up the training. That pitch would always represent a command to the dog.

 

Although, since the future is hard to predict and it's hard to determine what I will want to teach my border collie, the shepherd's whistle seems like it will be a better long term training tool. Maybe I will only need 4 commands, but maybe I decide that I want to teach 10 whistle commands and thinking up 10 different commands will be a lot easier with a shepherd's whistle.

 

GentleLake already replied to the treibball question, but I just wanted to add a bit. I think competitions are usually done indoors, but it is also done outdoors. I'm not really concerned about competing, I plan on just using it as a herding game for my border collie (like I said, not a stockdog, but I am doing everything I can to keep it's mind and body active). All you need are some large balls for the dog to push around and a field. I mentioned whistle volume because of windy days, not so much distance. Once the wind gets going through the tree's in my area it get very noisy.

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Hmm, I didn't think of things like speed. Gundog whistle training does have standard commands for changing direction, but nothing like faster and slower. I knew that pitch control would definitely increase the variety of whistles that I could do. I think this would have been a better question for me to ask:

 

How many commands do you teach using a whistle?

 

I think gundogs usually have about 4 main commands: come, stop/down, resume, and change direction. They haven't exactly exhausted the number of distinct whistle commands that could be achieved with a single pitch whistle, but I do realize that it is very limited compared to a shepherd's whistle. So basically, I think I was wondering if stockdog's are generally taught enough commands to justify using an extra variable (which is pitch). To me it seems like a gundog whistle would be easier to train with. The handler doesn't need to practice with one of those whistles to achieve pitch control, and I imagine that a consistent single pitch would help speed up the training. That pitch would always represent a command to the dog.

 

Although, since the future is hard to predict and it's hard to determine what I will want to teach my border collie, the shepherd's whistle seems like it will be a better long term training tool. Maybe I will only need 4 commands, but maybe I decide that I want to teach 10 whistle commands and thinking up 10 different commands will be a lot easier with a shepherd's whistle.

.......

 

 

Once a sheepdog is fully trained, the whistle "vocabulary" on a dog is fairly extensive, which renders a single-pitch whistle too limiting. Remember, the dog may be 500 or more yards away, making voice commands nearly impossible, so it's vital that those whistles be not only audible, but clear in their meaning.

 

I think the actual number of commands is hard to define exactly, because each command has variations. But the basic whistle commands for a sheepdog are to go left, go right, stop, steady, walk up, go wider, come in closer, and look back (for more sheep.) But the way the whistle is blown can tell the dog whether he is to go faster or slower, or change the tragectory of his movement, or even convey a sense of calm or urgency

 

Sometimes the whistles are blown quite close together, as well. For example, if the sheep are moving fast and I want to ask my dog to flank left, stop there, walk up and steady ... all four of those commands may take place in less than 3 seconds. Therefore each command must have its own distinct notes in order for the dog to understand. Otherwise a single pitch whistle is just going to sound like some kind of weird whistle Morse code out there. :P

 

In fact, if a sheepdog handler's whistles start to sound too much alike in pitch and tone, it actually confuses the dog. There's the poor handler trying to figure out why his dog has started lying down when he's trying to send him to the right, and he's thinking his dog isn't listening or is being disobedient .... And one day one of his friends says, "Say, did you know that your Away whistle sounds a lot like your Lie Down? No, really, it does." So, the handler goes home, practices until he gets it right, and bingo, there's Spot once again taking his whistle commands like a good dog. So, it really, really does matter.

 

Ultimately, tthe shepherd's whistle is the only one that has the tonal variety and musical range to convey all those commands and their variences clearly.

 

Hope this helps! :)

Cheers ~

 

Gloria

P.S.

I had a terrible timing learning to whistle, and sometimes still find myself blowing weird sharps and flats. :rolleyes:

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ROTFL I'm so happy to hear that I'm not the only person who's failed Whistle 101 or should have tried a harmonica instead. :P

 

I had a half hour commute to work and drove at work for about 5 hours three days a week. I'd take my whistle and practice sometimes for hours at a time and I still.couldn't.whistle. I felt like such a failure. :angry:

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Considering how recently I started, I'm doing really well in the car. I'm at a clinic today and tomorrow and I haven't heard any notes I can't reproduce, so far, just not always getting the note I actually want. But it's going to be a long time before I can put several notes together in a row and consistently play the same ones.

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Dear Doggers,

I had the usual difficulties learning to use the shepherd's whistle (and after 3 months disciplined attempts never did learn the finger whistle). So I had my Pip at a sheepdog trial and when I needeed a flank THE DAMN WHISTLE WOULDN'T WORK. well, we wrestled around the course and afterwards, Walt Jagger asked me what the trouble was.

 

"Whistle doesn't work. Must be a seed caught in there or something."

 

Walt took my whistle, blew a trill, handed it back without a word.

 

Donald cCaig

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Considering how recently I started, I'm doing really well in the car. I'm at a clinic today and tomorrow and I haven't heard any notes I can't reproduce, so far, just not always getting the note I actually want. But it's going to be a long time before I can put several notes together in a row and consistently play the same ones.

That's super!

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