ACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kelpiegirl]

John Katz is being featured on CBS's "Weekend morning show"- this hour!!!!!!! No, I won't be watching it

[sheepandakom]

John Katz is being featured on CBS's "Weekend morning show"- this hour!!!!!!! No, I won't be watching it

 

 

I saw that, too! My boyfriend is here watching TV with me and I just shouted out something about how terrible it was and went on to educate him about what an idiot Katz is and how everyone who knows BC's does, or should, hate him.

 

Emily

[bc friend]

A non-dogowning friend who knows how much I love bc's emailed me bright and early this a.m. to tell me Katz would be on tv so I wouldn't miss it! Probably needless to say, I won't be watching.

[kelpiegirl]

Well, I ended up watching it- ended up waiting for my sister, and nothing to do... Anyway, here is what I got from it/saw.

For one, it appears JK seems to have dumped his family for his farm- his wife teaches at Columbia and seems very happy in her life. His favorite animals appear to be the Donkeys. The BC's appear to be his financial machine- his mystery books failed, and he hated TV. His sheep feed his financial machine. Which, I think is an apprapoe statement, when you see the clip of Rosie? was it? Being told to go around, and slicing in and hanging on for a nice long ride. I get the feeling that he is just very happy to have found his writing niche, and that dogs, while being important to him in a financial and career sense, are simply just muses, not some kindred spirit.

[sheepandakom]

I watched it, too. I thought she gripped the sheep that she split off. I really looked like she didn't have much herding training at all. I was kind of surprised that the announcer said that Katz liked donkeys but that most farmers thought they were useless. Perhaps most of the people I know that have a donkey or two with their sheep are doing it because they like to waste money and keep useless animals around.

 

Emily

[Sue R]

I work in a bookstore and folks are always assuming that I can't wait to read the next Katz book because "it's about Border Collies and you love them so much and he's such a good author". Sheesh. I love my co-workers but on my Christmas exchange wish-list, although I listed no books (mainly chocolate!), I made a notation that I wanted to receive "NOTHING BY JON KATZ!" to avoid any potential problems with a gift that would make me gag.

 

I have read bits of some of his books and they about made me ill.

[OkieJenna]

Okay I must be living under a rock. Who is John Katz?

 

Jenna

[Bill Fosher]

Oh believe me, Jenna, it's better under that rock. If only I could crawl under there with you and erase my knowledge of the man's existance. I've considered sewing my eyes shut, but don't want to give hime the satisfaction.

 

Julie,

 

His wife has never lived on the farm, but I heard an interview with her within the last couple of years in which she said she's spending more time there and fully supports her husband's decision to live there without her.

 

If I were her, I would be falling on my knees every day and thanking my lucky stars for answering my prayers and getting the fat blowhard out of my life without the expense and difficulty of divorce or the messy consequences of homicide.

[kelpiegirl]

Bill

I was thinking the same thing.

[juliepoudrier]

If I were her, I would be falling on my knees every day and thanking my lucky stars for answering my prayers and getting the fat blowhard out of my life without the expense and difficulty of divorce or the messy consequences of homicide.

 

J.

[Eileen Stein]

Jon Katz is a difficult phenomenon to explain, Jenna. He has written several "heartwarming" books about his experiences with his dogs. He portrayed himself as clueless at the start, and though he appears equally clueless now, he is a terrific self-marketer who has leveraged himself into being regarded as a "dog expert," more particularly an expert on border collies, and most particularly an expert on "herding" border collies. This because he bought a farm and has a handful of animals of many species, including sheep which his dogs seem to run around and through at random. (One of them was only allowed to run around the outside of a pen with sheep in it, which Katz also referred to as herding.) He even wrote a dog training book. His experiences with his dogs are totally pedestrian, and his "insights" about them even more so, when they are not out and out absurd. His reputation as an expert was based largely on his portrayal of himself through several books as saving and rehabilitating his first, "whacko" border collie, whom he called his "lifetime dog." He shortened that lifetime when he had the dog put down because it twice bit someone and he didn't want to spend the money to have an expensive medical workup done and didn't want to take precautions to keep it out of situations where it might bite again. But that was okay, he told us, because a dog shaman he consulted said the dog was happier dead. It seems to me that most of what he did with that dog throughout its life was calculated to drive it crazy, but strangely enough, a whole lot of people seem to look up to this guy and ask him for advice.

 

FMI, you can use the search function (type in "Katz") to see what's been said about him here in previous discussions. You can also look at the reader reviews of his book A Good Dog on amazon.com -- he joined in at one point making comments on people's reviews.

[OkieJenna]

Thanks Eileen,

 

I came out from under my rock due to my curious personality. I did a search on him and came up with the amazon reader reviews earlier this morning. I tried searching these boards for Jon Katz, but had problems finding anything at first, but once I searched Yahoo and entered Jon Katz Border Collies I came up with links back to this board and did a little reading. I plan to read more later. Thanks for the insight. Seems like an interesting topic.

 

Jenna

[stockdogranch]

Thanks for the laugh, Bill!!!

A

[DixiesDad]

I'd be afraid to crawl under a rock cause You might bump inot Katz

[Eileen Stein]

Thanks for the insight. Seems like an interesting topic.

 

I suppose so, in a depressing sort of way. He himself is not an interesting person, but the phenomenon by which people can acquire an air of expertise when they are all-too-visibly lacking in that expertise is interesting.

[DeltaBluez Tess]

.....sorta like people who are "Instant Experts" in herding and give lesson, offer advice and bash other trainers (who actually compete in Open successfully and train dog to win in Open and so forth..."done the walk").....these "Instant Experts" have never past Novice level, have a hard time running their own dogs and do not know how to handle livestock but now are the "World's Leading authority"

 

 

...anyone run into these folks?

 

 

Diane

[ShoresDog]

I actually think that Jon Katz's success is due mostly to the fact that there are far too few good dog books being written these days. Given that there are, what, 60 million dogs in the USA, and who knows how many millions of people who really love their dogs, you'd think there would be more to choose from.

 

There's a particular shortage of books about wonderful border collies! I read just about any dog (or cat!) book that comes along, and unfortunately that means slogging through some real dreck. If only Patricia McConnell could clone herself a few times! I'm glad there's a books and video section now, and I do hope that some good books are flagged.

[Bill Fosher]

There's a shortage of good training books for a reason. Nearly all dog training relies on reading the dog -- and there's no way you can get beyond some of the most basic generalities without running into situations where the reader could easily misconstrue what you're saying. We see it on these boards all the time. Someone describes a situation, you think you understand it clearly, and respond accordingly. But later something comes out that makes it clear you didn't understand the situation correctly, and therefore the advice you gave was wrong.

 

Katz doesn't let things like this get in his way. The first time I ever heard him discussing dog training was when Rose was about five months old. He was on a local public radio call-in show, and in the introduction he was talking about how he liked to let Rose spend "a couple of hours" on her own in with the sheep every day "to get to know them."

 

All I could think of was what would happen with working puppies if you stuck them in a field of sheep for a couple of hours and went inside to write a self-serving pompous memoir. When you came back out, you'd either have dead sheep or a dead puppy, or perhaps both.

 

When Katz returns to that radio station for his monthly call-in training advice show, it's painful to listen. It's clear that all he wants to do is talk about himself and his dogs. He allows the callers to talk, but only uses the information they give him as a launching point to talk about his own experiences (often prefaced with, "In my book I describe ...)

 

The odd fact of the matter is that people don't recognize this man as a charlatan. And it's not just a few -- it's enough that this call-in show stays on the air, his publisher keeps publishing his manuscripts, and Hollywood made one of his books into a feature film. Bald-faced self promotion, answers that make no sense, and setting oneself up as a victim of oppression by "insiders" (Border collie snobs in this case) apparently goes a long ways towards being an expert.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

The problem, Bill, is that people in general aren't animal/dog savvy anymore. Mis-statements, untruths that seem glaringly obvious to us, who are animal-centered, won't set up any red lights to the average pet owner. The general popuation is just as wrapped up in themselves as he is, so his words reflect what they want to hear. Yes, it's noble to euth that dog when it's inconvenient to keep around any longer. Yes, it's foolish to mess around with a rescue because they are all permanently damaged.

[Shetlander]

When Katz returns to that radio station for his monthly call-in training advice show, it's painful to listen. It's clear that all he wants to do is talk about himself and his dogs. He allows the callers to talk, but only uses the information they give him as a launching point to talk about his own experiences (often prefaced with, "In my book I describe ...)

 

He was on an Internet book group a few years back and he was one of the oddest guests. He ignored the majority of posts and questions, instead posing his own questions (though he just as easily ignored the answers in response) and in general seemed kind of autistic. Compared to most authors who come through, his interactions were meager, sporadic and obviously self-centered. If what another person said didn't mean something to him, he ignored it. Which is fairly normal in life but not when you're the "guest speaker" who is supposed to be there to dialogue with people and make them want to read your books. His time with the group petered out and I pictured him wandering away from a bunch of actual fans, awareness of them fast receding, to do something more interesting.

 

That same group had him back in the past year but the "visit" never really took off. He was always somewhere else or his computer wasn't working or his donkey was gravely ill. And there were strict, strict rules that no one was to question him about his decision to put Orson down. Even with that protection in place and agreeing to talk with the group, he just never could really work it into his schedule.

[Pippin's person]

I have this kind of weird, somewhat morbid fascination with this guy's career--I don't know why (actually I do know why--I read his book "running to the mountain" at a point where I **REALLY** thought I needed a different career and I was inspired by his description of leaving a pretty good, relatively prestigious job to try something like writing).

 

I don't read his books anymore and find him generally repugnant. But, what does seem to be happening is something sort of similar to what happened when he was a technology writer--enough people are getting wise to the fact that he's a dog training charlatan that he's losing what used to be a faithful audience. I'd be willing to bet that his next book is about donkeys or something other than animals altogether. And that can only be a good thing for Border Collies---but sad for whatever the next topic is.

 

I hadn't even noticed the new books/video section--what a great addition to the Boards.

[kelpiegirl]

I think that's an astute observation/prediction. I bet it will be ALL about Donkeys next. Then what will happen to his BC's. Perhaps bring them out with him to hawk their autographs? Anything to make $$

[AK dog doc]

But, what does seem to be happening is something sort of similar to what happened when he was a technology writer--enough people are getting wise to the fact that he's a dog training charlatan that he's losing what used to be a faithful audience.

 

We can but hope. From your lips to God's ear, as they say.

[Alaska]

We can but hope. From your lips to God's ear, as they say.

Dream on, optimists. Perhaps you have forgotten about the soon-to-be-released movie?

[Eileen Stein]

A clip of the Katz segment is now on line, and the masochistic can view it here.