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Does not like to be close to his sheep


Guest Nancy Obernier
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Guest Nancy Obernier

Hi Carol,

I'm writing about Zac again. As an update, his outrun has improved when someone is holding sheep, sometimes he will start to slow up around 10 o'clock and before he stops I will give him another flank and he will continue on to balance and lift the sheep without problems. I had him away from home the other week, and not only did he not stop and balance off the person holding sheep, but when he came to large clumps of very tall weeds (about 2ft high) he continued past them and did not stop and hide in them, or behind the trees.

 

I have another question about him though. Remember he has alot of eye and he still seems immature, will be 2 in Dec.

 

My problem is that he does not like to be up close to his sheep. Have always had difficulty working him in a round pen, he gets very tense and will eventually bust the sheep up. In a large field he does not exhibit as much tension. He likes to drive but on his fetch and drive he seems to have an invisible line a certain distance from the sheep, and he doesn't want to go over this line, he'll lie himself down when he gets to this invisible line, he will get up again when asked. I have tried giving him a walk up when he is getting to this line, which will prevent him from laying down. He always walks directly up on his sheep and does not weave back and forth. Are there exercises to do that will help him relax when he is closer to sheep and be more willing to be up close to them?

 

I have started taking him on a line into an area about 12' X 12' with about 20 sheep. I flank him around the sheep using the line. If left alone, he would lie down and stare at them, build up tension to the point he is shaking and digging his claws into the dirt and then would go straight at them and bust them up. With using the line and taking him around he still becomes tense but is starting to move more freely around them. Not sure if this is a good thing to be doing or not.

 

Thanks,

Nancy O

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Guest Carol Campion

I think what you are doing is something I would try. I think in this instance you can't do him any harm by doing things that will keep getting him in that situation as long as the outcome is to relax him.

 

Here are a couple of things that I do.

 

Put out some grain at a feeder. Get some sheep used to coming to the feeder. Do this a bit witout a dog so that they are readily running to the feeder. Then have him with you and as they are coming to the feeder, walk with him on a line to meet the sheep before they get to the feeder. You want him to meet the sheep and have to turn them away and then drive them. Do it until the sheep move away. Then go back to where you started so that the sheep feel they are free to come to the feeder. Let them build momentum coming towards it and then ask him up with you to turn them again.

Do this a few times. (After a while they will quit playing the game and give up so you can only do this for just so long each session). But the next day they will try. You might need to keep him lying in front while you fill the feeders at first, then all him off and then walk him up. At first he might lunge as he omes forward on them—thus the line. But eventually they get to like this and he will learn to come forward on sheep coming toward him. BE PATIENT!!

 

The goal here is to not only have him walk up on sheep, but he will actually feel that his moving up is turning the sheep. Also, he is doing it on sheep that are coming at him rather than just stationary sheep. Don't ask him to take sheep that are eating—heads in the feeder—off it. That is too hard for him. But most get where they feel a power in turning sheep that are coming towards them.

 

Also, try the exercise where you put the dog in a small pen in with the sheep in close proximity. If the pen is small, no one can get hurt. Just spend some time there. Make sure you protect him if the sheep might try to come at him. They will feel his discomfort and it will make them tense. Also, if he lunges, don't yell at him, just stroke him and calm him with your voice & behavior and see if in time he relaxes.

 

Another thing to try is shedding. In shedding, they have to come closer to sheep and also to turn into them. He will understand the function of it and it should help. Let the shed sheep try to regroup and call him back in before they do to hold them apart. Again, he will need to face sheep coming at him.

 

Try driving towards strong pressure and let the sheep get to some point in your field where thy will want to start to run off to it. When they are running away from your dog, hold him back a bit and time it so that they feel they can get to the pressure. Then flank him to cover them. He will have to flank & actually turn them away from strong pressure and get into their faces a bit to bring them back. You can gradually hold him back longer and longer to make it harder and harder to achieve this. You will know you have held him too long if the sheep get aay. If they do, no bother! Just set it up again and don't hold him back quite as long. Gradually build up the degree of difficulty.

 

Try some of these things. Using the concepts behind them, there are probably other exercises you can do on your farm or in your training area that will help.

 

Let me know if any of these help!

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Guest Nancy Obernier

Carol,

Thanks for the information.

 

"When they are running away from your dog, hold him back a bit and time it so that they feel they can get to the pressure. Then flank him to cover them."

Carol, I do this with Zac and he flanks out nicely and covers them without difficulty.He has no problem turning them and walking up on them. I set this up with the sheep running to the gate with Zac and I at the lower end of the field. I can get about a 150 yard outrun in my field and he can do this with the sheep running away from him.

 

Just as further information,he does not seem to have problems with going between the sheep and the fence,even if I lie him down next to the fence. In other words, if the sheep are at the gate and I send him on an outrun, he does not have problems peeling them off the gate, I will often set it up with sheep on the other side to make it more difficult to move the sheep off the gate. This is probably the only time he does not seem to mind being up close to the sheep.

 

"Put out some grain at a feeder"

I have not tried this with him before so will try this.I will let you know how it turns out.

 

"Another thing to try is shedding."

I have just begun learning to shed with my Ben dog, my sheep are difficult to shed and are not cooperative about splitting nicely so a big hole can be made. I've heard pros and cons about shedding against a fence to prevent sheep from flowing behind you. What are your feelings about using this technique?

 

Nancy O

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Guest Carol Campion

<"Another thing to try is shedding."

I have just begun learning to shed with my Ben dog, my sheep are difficult to shed and are not cooperative about splitting nicely so a big hole can be made. I've heard pros and cons about shedding against a fence to prevent sheep from flowing behind you. What are your feelings about using this technique?>

 

It is a fine technique. Keep in mind your dog doesn't know what you want so you have to set up ways to show him. The best way is with a big flock. If you stop the dog across the sheep from you and move forward, the sheep will split. Then there is a big hole. Great!

 

But if you have doggy sheep, or sheep that just fold around you, then you need something different.

 

The first thing is to get him to come straight to you no matter what. Pick a phrase and stick with it. A lot of people use, "Here", others "That'll do" etc.

 

So get your sheep along the fence and then stand to the SIDE of the sheep and call him directly to you. He might be distracted by the sheep next to him. This is what you want—to get him to give that distraction up.

 

Once he gets that, stand in the midst of the group along the fence and call him. As he comes, the sheep should part. If not, it isn't you—it's the sheep. If they split, in the beginning, just be happy with him coming and lie him down with you. Get this secure and then have him take one group away.

 

I wrote a piece for a friend a year ago that has some other exercises. It is on Heather's Chats list under articles for training. See if there is anything there to help you.

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