Goat people--need your advice!

[juliepoudrier]

Kind of a long story, so I'll just hit the highlights, especially since I don't know all the details anyway. A friend of mine has dairy goats. She also recently got a couple of LGDs, both young, I think. The male I know is less than 2 years old.

 

So this little goat (not quite a yearling) was injured in the shoulder several weeks ago. That seemed to be healing. My friend left for a trip to the west coast and left her, um, whatever, in charge of the animals. At some point, the LGD got into the stall where this little goat was recuperating and did some more damage. All the SO could tell me was that the dog got in with her and that he thought she wasn't going to live. There is some question as to whether to goat has been eating.

 

So I got a call from my friend yesterday asking if I could help, since the SO doesn't really know anything about taking care of livestock and hasn't been truthful/forthcoming about the actual situation with her. I said that if he could deliver her here, I would do what I could for her.

 

So she arrived this morning. I am on deadline for a freelance job and can't spend much time today other than seeing to her basic care. We had dairy goats when I was a child, but that was many moons ago, and I certainly don't remember every having to treat them for injuries.

 

I believe my friend gave her some antibiotics when the origial injury happened, but she hasn't had any for a couple of weeks I'd guess.

 

Here's what I see. The SO said she couldn't get up, but she did get up on her own and has been standing around. She nibbled a couple of bites of grain, put her nose in the minerals and then acted like they were something awful, sniffed water but didn't drink. She's NOT using her left hind leg (though no one mentioned an injury to it, and there's no obvious damage) and appears to be sore in her pelvic region (touch her there and she squats).

 

The original shoulder injury appears to have healed over, despite the fact that the SO said he thinks it's infected. Her ears have been denuded (during the second attack, in the stall). They don't look infected either, just bare and a little ragged around the edges. Flies are not an issue this time of year and we're having a cold snap anyway.

 

I gave her a shot of LA-200 and hit her with some nutridrench. She acts like she's having trouble swallowing, but I'm not a student of goat behavior and her reaction could just be because she didn't like the taste (she reacted the same way after licking at the minerals--head up and neck arched slightly backward and making mouthing motions <--is this a goat thing?)

 

So my questions are pretty general. I thought I'd also get her going on PenG, to cover whatever the oxytet doesn't cover. I know that for sheep with injuries, you can go pretty high on dosages, but I don't know how goats compare to sheep when it comes to meds. Can I give her banamine for pain? If so, how much? Same as I would a sheep (1 mL/100 lbs)? Are stomach ulcers from banamine a concern with goats? I gave her the same dose of LA-200 that I'd give a sheep that size, but does anyone have a recommendation on the PenG? (I usually look at the cattle dose and adjust from there.)

 

The vet is not an option. I can't afford to have one out here, and I really am just volunteering for this because I figured she'd have a better chance with me than with the SO as at least I have plenty of livestock care experience if not any recent goat care experience.

 

Also I do know that goats don't tolerate cold well. She is in a stall in the barn and it is well bedded. Right now the door is open so she can get some sun and see the lambs that are out in the paddock there. A heat lamp or anything similar is also not an option. Will she be warm enough if I put a dog jacket on her (sssuming I have one that will fit her)? Or an old sweatshirt? The barn is an older barn, so not airtight, but she is out of the way of any direct drafts.

 

Thoughts on what I should be doing to help her? When next I speak to her owner, I will ask about vaccination status. I have tetanus antitoxin here if anyone thinks that's advisable.

 

Help!!!

 

ETA: Sorry, I guess it ended up long anyway.

J.

[denice]

Yes I would the same dose of drugs as for sheep. The one thing I know about goats for sure is they often have a Thiamine deficiency. Now with the attack it may be simply injury but I am thinking it may not hurt the situation any either to give her some. THe stuff I have says give 4 units a day slowly for 5 days. I imagine if you give pipestone vets a call they might be able to give you some suggestions. I'd take her temp. YOu can add molasses from the grocery store to some sweet feed to see if she would eat come grain. If not drinking I have mixed up some oral electrolytes and put it in a wine bottle (I put electric tape around the mouth of the bottle just to make sure it wouldn't break if the bite it) then make her drink it. I just hold up their head and let them swollow some then reapeat the process.

 

Those are the things I would try since you are shooting in the dark.

[Pam Wolf]

I was always told do not give LA200 and Pen at the same time has to do with how they act.

 

This is a sick goat. I've found when the LGD's lick ears alot the animal is sick. My standard round is antibiotic, B vitamine to help with stress and to improve the appetite. Alfalfa can help too if there is any available give her alfalfa har or pellets.

 

Check her colour and see if she needs deworming. Better yet do a fecal on her. Is she getting a mineral with copper in it? Copper can help with worms in goats.

 

I do not regularly give pain meds to my goats and they seem to do fine. Not sure about banamine nor the dosage if it is used.

 

I would not vaccinate until she is healthy as it could stress her system more. If she has grain available you might add some baking soda to her mineral.

[juliepoudrier]

Thanks ladies.

 

I have fortified B complex here, but goats are the one species not listed on the bottle. Unless y'all say I'll kill her giving her some, I'll just go ahead with that.

 

The plan was to start the PenG tomorrow, after giving the LA-200 a chance to do its thing.

 

I have no alfalfa hay, but can probably get some pellets.

 

Someone else suggested privately to deworm her with Ivomec (also mentioned the possible thiamine deficiency), so I will get that in her too.

 

I suppose it's possible the LGD just licked her ears (though the edges look a bit torn), but this is the same dog that caused her initial injury (which from the look of it now several weeks later was a pretty nasty torn shoulder), so it's also possible he was acting aggressively toward her. I don't know the situation there (she lives ~1 hr away), so I'm just going on the bits and pieces I've heard from the two of them (owner and her SO).

 

J.

[Laura L]

If she seems to be in pain and you have banamine, I'd give her a dose of it (same as sheep). I'd give more nutri-drench and worm her too. The vitamins wouldn't be a bad idea. Sheep and goats would get the same dosages. Sounds like you're keeping her comfortable and hopefully she'll eat and drink on her own. Don't know what your temps are now, but if the stall is bedded she should be fine without a coat or sweatshirt on her.

 

You're a good person for taking her in and treating her!

Laura

[juliepoudrier]

Okay, she got LA-200 and nutridrench this morning. I have now also dewormed her with Ivomec, given her a dose of fortified B complex and a dose of banamine. I also used the drench syringe to get about half a cup of molasses/warm water in her.

 

I looked her over closely. The shoulder wound appears to be mostly healed, with some proud flesh/scarring, but doesn't appear infected or anything. The ears literally look like the hair was rubbed off. One ear was a bit bloody, so I put a little Blu-Kote on it (though the B-K was reluctant to spray and I think I ended up wearing as much as the goat!). She also has some "scratches" (tooth marks?) on the bridge of her nose. Those seem to be healing.

 

I also got her up and looked at her hind leg. It's clearly hurting her and feels warm in the hock region. I couldn't feel any obvious breaks or anything, but then she wasn't actually cooperating because I was hurting her. She's grinding her teeth a little bit, but not continuously. I'm hoping the banamine will help with that. I suspect that the reason Eric told me she couldn't get up is because if she lies down on that side the leg hurts too much to push herself up. When I left her, I made sure she was lying with her good hind leg down.

 

She's talking a little bit and seems bright and alert. She was lying in a sunny patch and seemed plenty warm. It's not that cold out, low 40s I think, but a strong wind makes it feel much colder. I'm hoping the B complex will stimulate her appetite as well. I wish I had access to some alfalfa because I suspect that would tempt her more than the fescue I pulled off the round bale (all I have).

 

This evening I'll probably give her a little Probios too.

 

That's pretty much everything I'd have done for a sheep. If anyone has any other ideas, let me know.

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

Thanks Laura. I may break down and get myself a dairy goat in the spring, so I guess this can be considered a practice run (not that I expect any future goat to be dog damaged...).

 

J.

[gail]

I would also take her temp. Temp should be a good indication of whether there is any active infection. Although the antibiotics she has already gotten may have disguised a fever, it would be good to take and repeat after the course of antibiotics.

 

I would also give banamine or dexamethasone - I have given goats the same dosage as sheep. Also know that these drugs will reduce any fever.

 

Rest, food, time, and maybe a gentle pal...Good Luck, Gail

[Pam Wolf]

The LGD's start licking the ears of the sick one and if they get carried away will get them raw then just chew the bloody ear. If one of my LGD's ever starts to harrass an animal in this manner I immediately treat the animal, uaually the shotgun approach of deworming and antibiotics and B vitamin.

[NorthfieldNick]

Julie, I don't have time to read the responses, but Fiasco Farm (www.fiascofarm.com) has a ton of info on dosing goats, including some off-label drugs. Ignore the typos and homey-kitschy tone of the website. It's a great resource for goat info when you need it ASAP.

 

Our goats seem to like having a blanket (it's like a small horse blanket) when they're not feeling well.

 

I'm not sure if the mouthingbthing is the same, but our goats flap their lips around and make chomping motions when they taste something funny. Goats are fussy eaters... Ours can't resist willow and fir branches... And alfalfa.

[Indira]

Does she eat?

If the rumen stops actifity she will get a bigger problem.

If she dosn't want to eat give her the following plants if you have it:

blackberry leaves, raspberry leaves, hazelnut leaves, nettle leaves and the little nettle nuts, willow bark or a piece of willow wood.

 

These plants are soft and easy to eat (except the willow) for an injured, ill goat and the nettle and willow bark helps with pain.

 

If she doesn't drink you can put a little bit molasses in the water - not much. The water should not be too cold, for ill goats is lukewarm water better.

 

The behavior you describe while trinking is not normal.

[juliepoudrier]

Becca and I examined her again. The ears do look like they were licked raw. She has some swelling along her jawline, which is what is making it uncomfortable for her to chew/swallow. She did drink the water we offered her in a small pan and she ate a couple of bites of alfalfa pellets. I think if we can control the pain/swelling at her jaw and her hock (bite wound there) she will be okay. Still perky and talking to us. Will update tomorrow.

 

Thanks for all the advice!

 

J.

[NorthfieldNick]

Right! Blackberries! How could I forget those. Our goats have cleared our pasture of them. If you haven't already, offer her some browse. I don't know how many leaves you have left on plants there, but our goats pretty happily chew on branches and bark this time of year.

 

Other things our old doe would eat when she was declining: apples, sunflower seeds, any brassica.

[juliepoudrier]

Cookie was shivering this morning, so I put a coat on her. She nibbled a little hay and a little grain and stuck her nose in the minerals. We're going to walk through the woods to check the sheep in the Elam Currin pasture and will gather her some browse on the return walk. Once the sun started shining in her stall, I think she got toasty (I also think the shivering isn't entirely the cold, but also painfulness, but I'm heartened that she talks to us, drinks, and is showing interest in food.)

 

 

The coat is one a friend made for my old Boy, who passed away in October 2010. The irony is that the pattern on the fabric is wolf heads (they're upside down on this side of Cookie).

 

J.

[ItsADogsLyfe]

Don't have a lot to add Julie, but I do hope she's doing better today. One thing about goats is they tend to feel sorry for themselves if they hurt or get injured. I've had goats that grinded their teeth before and they weren't sick. Maybe its a stress thing? Goats can tolerate the cold, but they can't tolerate drafts or wet as well as sheep can. They can get pneumonia easily if they get wet and are in a drafty area. That said, the two I have now seem to hang out in the rain and lay on the ground in the open in 18 degree weather. What kind of goat is she? She looks like Alpine only seems rather short in the leg. Maybe its the coat? LOL So would that be like a sheep (goat) in wolves clothing?

[juliepoudrier]

The only browse we could find was honeysuckle, so we brought her back some of that. She was happily munching the leaves.

 

Joan,

She is an alpine, last year's baby. You're seeing her pretty much from the knees up in that photo.

 

J.

[OurBoys]

Awww, I know Cookie's not feeling well but she looks so cute in her coat. It sounds like she's doing better under your care. Thank you for taking care of her, Julie.

[Indira]

One thing about goats is they tend to feel sorry for themselves if they hurt or get injured.

 

Not all of them .

We have a saying:

" A goat is ill on Monday

and dead on Tuesday."

That means that men often overlook that there is a default and act too late.

 

any brassica.

Can someone give me the exact Latin word, please?

Which kind of Brassica - Brassica rapa, Brassica napus....or...?

[NorthfieldNick]

Indira, I haven't yet found a Brassica our goats won't eat B. oleracea is the cabbage family, including broccoli, kale, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, collards. B. rapa is the turnips and mustards, B. napus the oilseed types. Our goats will eat them all, including other mustard greens like arugula (rocket, sylvetta). Heck, they even eat sauerkraut!

 

Brassicas grow like weeds in the climate in the coastal northwest US. We have lots of wild mustards, native and introduced, that populate our pastures in addition to all the cultivated varieties we grow in the garden. I don't know the proper name for a lot of the wild mustards.

 

I hope that helps.

[terrecar]

Any news on the goat?

[juliepoudrier]

She's doing okay, though still not using that hind leg. But she gets up and moves all around the stall on three legs, talks a lot, and is eating, though not as heartily as I'd like. I've spoken with her owner and she's happy with my plan of just letting tincture of time do its thing. Her owner won't get back to North Carolina until next Monday, so I'll have her for another week and a half.

 

Sadie the donkey will go lie down in front of the gate to Cookie's stall. She must like goats, though she's never been around them. I wish Cookie were getting around better; if she were, I'd let her out with the three lambs that are in that little paddock. Sadie can be a bit rambunctious though, and Cookie doesn't need to be accidentally knocked around by a baby donkey run amok....

 

J.