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#1 dallasbc

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 05:35 PM

Dallas is learning very quickly and is doing pretty well, for the most part! There is one thing that I'm struggling with and not sure how to handle.

 

When we go for a walk, Dallas will attack my shoes. However, he is not doing this to play. He does this when he wants to stop for a sniff and I don't let him. Sometimes I do let him sniff around, but if I'm in a hurry or need to get home for some reason, letting him sniff isn't an option. I'm not sure how to teach him this attacking sneakers business isn't acceptable? Obviously stopping and making him stop doesn't do any good because that's what he wants. Even if I don't let him sniff around, he seems to get satisfaction just out of the stopping.

 

I do try to keep walking so he isn't getting what he wants, but it is incredibly difficult with a puppy attached to your sneaker...

 

I do take treats with me and use those to encourage him to behave on walks. Most of the time it works. In fact, most of the time he's an absolute angel on our walks. It's just every now and then. Sometimes if he starts attacking and I put him in a sit, he calms down. However, this isn't always the case.

 

Basically, I've got a few things I try that *mostly* work, but there is those small percentage of times where he doesn't care. He just wants a sniff!

 

I'm thinking of purchasing just a cheap little water gun and giving him a spray when he does this. Not sure if that will help though?



#2 gcv-border

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 05:48 PM

Definitely NO to the water gun!

 

It sounds like what you are doing is working, but as for any puppy behavior, it will take time to change. Just be consistent with trying to help him work through this, and don't worry about the fact that you may have to alternate between approaches.

 

It sounds like the approach of putting him in a sit works the best?  How do you reward that behavior? He should get 'paid' for being good.


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#3 dallasbc

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 05:53 PM

It sounds like the approach of putting him in a sit works the best?  How do you reward that behavior? He should get 'paid' for being good.

 

Ok, I'll probably stick with this then! He almost always gets rewarded for going into a sit with a treat and praise  :) It's usually only if I've run out of treats that he doesn't get one. Even then, I make sure to really dote on him and give him extra praise and love for going into a sit to make up for lack of a treat. I can't tell if he even likes it when I praise and stroke him. He seems like he doesn't even care, but I'm sure he does. He gets the praise and strokes anyway! 



#4 dallasbc

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 05:54 PM

Definitely NO to the water gun!

 

Also, why no to the water gun? I've never used one before on a pup or dog, but I've heard other owners suggest it. I'm totally fine not using one, just curious  :)  Thanks for the advice!



#5 gcv-border

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 06:13 PM

Water gun - no: because I prefer training in a positive manner, although I will use corrections (usually verbal) when necessary. In this scenario, I just think it is better to keep focusing on the positive. If you have seen a continuing improvement with his behavior, just keep it up. You are on the right track. And besides, he is a pup (IIRC), it's not necessary to bring out the "big guns".  LOL.


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#6 Sue R

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 06:45 AM

I know a number of dogs that would consider a water gun spray to be the most fun thing!
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#7 BillG

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 09:06 AM

A water gun squirt would / might stop the attacking of the shoes and then a positive redirect.  Its worked on the dogs we have trained in the past.


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#8 Smalahundur

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:48 PM

I know a number of dogs that would consider a water gun spray to be the most fun thing!

My thoughts exactly, he might think it is a reward!
I wonder if Dallasbc has confused dogs with cats...;)

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#9 Gloria Atwater

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 09:30 PM

A water gun squirt would / might stop the attacking of the shoes and then a positive redirect.  Its worked on the dogs we have trained in the past.

 

This.

Positive is all well and good, but I don't understand the aversion I sometimes see to a plain old NO. Dogs understand No. They speak NO all the time. Their mothers taught them NO, their siblings told them NO - no chewing my ear, no biting my tail, no stealing my toy, no eating my food, etc. There is nothing wrong with teaching NO.

And then redirect them to something else positive. My two pups got a lot of No the last few months, (they are just coming 10 months) but they also got lots of Yes. Chew a chair leg = No. Chew a toy instead = Yes. Give the No, then redirect to something positive.

That's my thoughts, anyhow. It's not as if dogs don't use NO in their own interactions all the time.  :)

 


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#10 BillG

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 07:59 AM

Good post Gloria.

 

So when Dog mom or sibling says NO! With a nip or growl what positive redirect is given?  

 

 You folks had a big discussion on the use of the word NO on my original post, never saw so much bickering among  professionals.  Don't you think the OP said NO to the pup when the shoes were being attacked?

 

And would not someone who tried the water spray bottle and it did not work..... try something else? 


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#11 Maralynn

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 09:38 AM


So when Dog mom or sibling says NO! With a nip or growl what positive redirect is given?  
 
 


Among my three, my two adult dogs will frequently initiate their version of appropriate play after they correct the pup for something. Its kinda fascinating to watch. If they dont initiate something then the pup usually respectfully follows and mimics their lead. It definitely looks like the canine version of dont do that, do this instead

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#12 BillG

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 10:01 AM

Interesting to know, thanks for posting.  It would really be nice if besides pasting the quote would work.  I must not have enough time or posts for that to be allowed?  It works fine on all the other Forums I am on.  Over on the Laser engraving forum at Sawmill Creek  I have nearly 3,000 posts.  I do pet memorials and nice custom tags in my sideline business.


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#13 CptJack

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 10:10 AM

Among my three, my two adult dogs will frequently initiate their version of appropriate play after they correct the pup for something. Its kinda fascinating to watch. If they dont initiate something then the pup usually respectfully follows and mimics their lead. It definitely looks like the canine version of dont do that, do this instead

 

Yep. I have five.  

 

1-) The correction is always the mildest correction that will stop behavior. Not usually, always.  That means it's often nothing more than a slightly hard look and only escalates any further than that if the behavior doesn't stop - and it never escalates as far as physical contact

 

and 

 

2-) it is very often followed (when dealing with a puppy) a positive interaction.  Because that mildest correction possible is not usually met by the puppy stopping and leaving.  It's the puppy offering some sort of appeasement signal.  At which point the adult dog who was just correcting licks an ear, wags a tail and quite often goes on to playing with the puppy they just corrected for being rude.

 

Heck, sometimes (not even rarely), when the rude behavior that got corrected was barging in to try and steal a toy/bone/chew/something, after the correction and puppy appeasement (sometimes as subtle as back ears and stopping the attempt to steal) - they give the puppy the thing, anyway.

 

(3-) With adult dogs (as in dogs over about 4 - under 3 my dogs are still inclined to treat one of their own like a puppy) it is STILL always the mildest correction necessary to get the point across, though it's usually followed by nothing more than the dog being corrected moving away.  Because adult dogs aren't puppies.)

 

So, yes, yes, dogs DO follow up with positives quite often - and their corrections are often much more subtle, mild, appropriate, and fair than the clumsy attempts of a human - who certainly doesn't read dog as well as dogs read human, and often (depending on the individual human) doesn't seem read dog at ALL.

 

**ETA:** To be clear: I do not care or think badly of someone correcting their dog.  I care and think badly of someone  when someone is not FAIR to their dog (well in as much as it's not my dog, not my circus and not my problem), and very often with puppies corrections are overly harsh, extreme, offer no opportunity for learning anything, and are just plain unfair  (ie: punishing a puppy for, basically, not knowing things no one has bothered to teach it, or for the physical and mental limitations of being a puppy).  



#14 GentleLake

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 10:41 AM

....It would really be nice if besides pasting the quote would work.  I must not have enough time or posts for that to be allowed?  It works fine on all the other Forums I am on.... 

 

Bill, there's a forum here for Tech and Troubleshooting on the Boards. http://www.bordercol...hp?showforum=42

 

Perhaps you should try posting there to get help?

 

In fact, there's a thread about someone's inability to use the quote function there. Not sure if it was resolved, but it might be a place to start.


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#15 urge to herd

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 03:46 PM

Bill, Gibbs is welcome in the puppy/young dog pens at the boarding facility I use. He does exactly what is described above, corrects appropriately, then nicely accepts appropriate behavior. I often get compliments from the staff when I pick him up. He loves the puppies and they love him.

 

He's 10 now, and he puts up w/less, but his tail still wags when we're out walking and a puppy comes into view. 

 

So, yes, there is a 'not this, but that'  in socially healthy dogs.

 

Ruth & Gibbs



#16 teresaserrano

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 03:58 PM

And then there's Tess  :blink: who tends to correct pups in a much harsher manner than needed. So she doesn't get to hang out with pups. Once they've grown a litlle and are her size, then she can interact. She still corrects when needed, but apropriately. And yes, once the dog is not a young pup anymore, she will correct and imediatly go back to play, as in, don't do that again, I don't like it, let's play this way instead.


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#17 dallasbc

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Posted Yesterday, 03:08 PM

Thanks for all the responses! It's been fascinating to read. To be fair, Dallas hates water! He's a funny pup. We live 5 minutes from the beach and he runs if the water comes near him. And he hates baths... 

 

I like the NO with something positive after. That's what I try to do most often with him. I think sometimes I forget to see the bigger picture that, yes, it is working! I just won't see the difference in a day  ;) Looking back from where we are now at 4 months to where we were at 2 months, there is such a huge difference in his behaviour. He's much more well behaved than he was. In the midst of the corrections, though, it felt like we were getting nowhere!

 

Happy to say that he's getting better with the shoes albeit not perfect. We'll get there though! I'll continue on with the NO and something positive after. 




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