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#101 toney

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 09:11 AM

Laurie got it right, multiple births in human females (And cattle and horses, for that matter) involves superovulation of the female using injections to produce more than one egg per cycle- these eggs are then harvested (Surgically or non-surgically) inseminated with frozen or fresh sperm in the lab, allowed to grow a few days then reimplanted in the human female (or in multiple, unrelated cows or mares)for gestation. In dogs, the semen is implanted in the bitch, but litter sizes are normally lower than using live cover, and the price of the semen is usually the cheapest thing you do, because a veterinarian that specializes or at least has ample experience in canine reproduction has to perform the operation to implant the sperm into the bitch's uterus- it isn't nearly as simple as AI of cattle, which can be done non-surgically.

#102 Carson Crazies

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 09:46 AM

Well since we're discussing AI and stuff, is there a reduction in viability and motility in NON-frozen shipped semen? Would the smaller litters also be the case with AI with just regular old shipped semen??
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#103 Annette Carter & the Borderbratz

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 10:02 AM

I have experience in shipping and doing AI with chilled semen. In this particular bitch bred her normal/average litter size was 5 pups and the chilled semen produced 3. There were two shipments of semen made and the second 36 hours (about) from the first. The cost was indeed up there-with fertility specialists on call included in the price. It was a regular AI, no surgery needed as I guess you would with frozen. My boy Indy is a result. Only one of the 3 pups met standard requirements for quality to breed -(2 were on the small side-all were promising workers though as far as shelties go).

#104 BigD

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 10:33 AM

I know of 3 AI litters here on Oahu -

1. resulted in 3 pups. 2 pretty hefty pups and one that was lost within hours. The pups were too big to birth on her own and resulted in a C-section.

2. resulted in 1 very large pup. C-section again.

3. resulted in 3 very large pups. 1 pup has been very slow to mature and has been a source of worry. But seems to be catching up. C-section again.

#105 Shewster

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 02:20 PM

J.Williams, I bet Ironhorse and Shere of WWW.AWESOME.BORDERCOLLIES.COM appreciated that factual information!!!!!!!

#106 Shewster

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 02:31 PM

Hey Ironhorse, guess you can put back Miss Dolly's history. I think we ought to try and get Shere on this board, what do you think? Seems like you all want to "extinquish" her!!!! Probably has too much class to come on board.Shewster

#107 Annette Carter & the Borderbratz

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 05:48 PM

Shewster, how nice of you to be slumming with us then....

#108 CoRayBee

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 06:12 PM

Originally posted by Shewster (or what I imagine I am hearing, anyway:)
blah blah blah, etc etc etc

I have heard that if you just ignore gnats and other annoying things they usually lose interest and GO AWAY...........
Vincere vel mori

#109 Annette Carter & the Borderbratz

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 06:50 PM

I know. You're right. I just came from sitting in on a local trainer's class (I'm looking for work in my new town) and managed to talk 3 people into keeping their shelter dogs because after 5 weeks of classes things aren't going so well for them. That is a total of 4 dogs that were headed to the pound and 2 of them were PB great danes from BYBs. I've offered free private sessions with these people in their homes because no kidding, the dogs were headed to the pound tomorrow. Just frustrated I guess. But relieved that the doggies get a stay of execution...

#110 Miztiki

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 07:14 PM

Bless your heart Annette. You're a good person.

#111 Annette Carter & the Borderbratz

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 07:59 PM

Thanks for slumming with me Miz, you're a good gal too. Totally OT but I ordered my camera-so poop on the bills. It's all on paper right?

#112 Miztiki

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 08:11 PM

Bills schmills. Looking forward to lots of pics from your fancy schmancy camera!

#113 kelpiegirl

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Posted 06 July 2005 - 01:35 AM

This may be a bit of a downer, but... I used to teach obedience classes. I taught alongside others who used the old fashioned method of training, and were given sneers if their dogs didn't do well, and they were only mutts. We had some great classes and students. My classes- no one dropped out. I concentrated on the positives of their dogs- and none of the owners were positive when we started- usually going to obedience classes are the last step before finding someone else to own the dog. I did this for some time, and then sadly, I learned, that most folks want you (the trainer) to train their dogs. They want the dog trained and that is it. They don't want to do maintenance with the dog. The throw away society we live in... So, Annette, I think you may have a very uphill battle, and I do commend you for going for it.

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#114 Annette Carter & the Borderbratz

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Posted 06 July 2005 - 03:25 AM

Julie,

Apparently, I'm a glutton for draggin my soul uphill. Now if I could just get my butt up the hill more often I might stave of diabetes a little longer. (nope not overfat yet but my family's real prone-being underweight is the key and I have a problem getting there)

Strangely enough, the trainer I went to see is old school although she is trying positive methods, she doesn't get that P+ has to be delivered in 2 secs or less. She is the only trainer for 70 miles! Last night I was helping the trainer with her human aggressive dog! She still drags her away by the collar, whacking, and yelling NO!

When I explained about desensitization, the trainer lady looked at me like I was some kind of genius. Now, she only does one class a week and that is what she lives off of, regardless of how big or small the class is. So really, I can see me putting the woman out of business. What I may do is see if there is enough business (there is I bet but they aren't using all resources) for us to work together but if that is the case, she is going to have to get spun up on more modern methods and I don't know if she's willing to do that. Oh by the way, she holds a certification in Dog Training so I'm floored, really.

#115 CoRayBee

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Posted 06 July 2005 - 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Annette & the Borderbratz:
Apparently, I'm a glutton for draggin my soul uphill.

Huh..there's a country song in there somewhere :rolleyes:

Seriously though, that 'certificate' this dog trainer holds- I wonder how old it is, how she received it and who gave it to her?

If she is willing to work with you then more power to you, but someone who isn't willing to open her mind to less harsh training methods might just wake up after she discovers all her students are gone. I wish you every success in helping her see the light, but if she doesn't I wouldn't worry about taking business away from her if there are enough dog owners listening to you. People can make their own choices, right? If they choose to try it your way and get results, that sort of speaks for itself.
Vincere vel mori

#116 BigD

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Posted 06 July 2005 - 03:53 PM

Seriously guys, in this day and age, if you have enough money you can get a certificate in ANYTHING.

D

#117 CoRayBee

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Posted 06 July 2005 - 04:03 PM

How true...... :D :rolleyes:
Vincere vel mori

#118 Annette Carter & the Borderbratz

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Posted 06 July 2005 - 04:25 PM

Ditto. Which is why I won't bother I guess, it's just a funneling of income out of my pocket and into someone else's and is not necessarily a measure of competence.

#119 ErinKate

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 06:42 AM

Seriously guys, in this day and age, if you have enough money you can get a certificate in ANYTHING.

Indeed true, and so sad!!! There were a lot of jobs out there that used to be "one the job training" and the person would receive certification. Now such job require extensive schooling and training.
Problem with on the job training types is you never learn more than the person teaching you knows. (no text books, no data....)
ErinKate
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