dimitri Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 to be fair, i have been training my pup since a few days after we got her at 8 weeks old. she's now 10 weeks old and can do a few of the usual tricks, like sit, down, paw, crawl etc. her recall is so-so; she'll come if she feels like it. our training sessions usually go fine but i was wondering, at what age can i up the level? at what age will she gain the 'border collie focus' that they're so known for? i was thinking it definitely won't be until after she's at least a year old, but it'd be nice to know anyway. gives me something to look forward to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdawgs Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 I started training my pup immediately and he initially had the focus and attention span of a gnat. He did very well in his first puppy class and then turned into a hellion. And he was very very independent and much more interested in my adult dogs than me. The focus slowly came and we had the beginnings of a partnership at around 8 months of age. Now at 19 months of age, he would rather play ball and do agility with me than play with his sisters, although he enjoys playing with them when he and I are not actively engaged. I will warn you that things get worse before they get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 ^^This. If you wait until your pup is a year old to "up the level", you'll have let an awful lot of valuable time pass wasted. She's going to need a lot more to do with her life than the basic tricks you're doing now long before she reaches that age. Unless, of course, you're talking about something like sheepdog training, agility or disc work, in which case you would want to wait until about a year old to start. In those cases you'll want both the maturity and the physical development (especially bone plates) for more physically strenuous activities. But you can do obedience, rally, Treiball, canine freestyle, etc. much earlier than a year old, and I'd recommend it. Especially concentrated recall work. The earlier you get that down pat the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 At one time it was thought that dogs couldn't be trained to do much until 6 months, but that was largely due to the fact that training methods were often harsher physically than is more commonly recommended nowadays, although some people do still cling to the old ways. You need to tread a middle path between not underestimating your pup's capacity and pushing her too hard too soon. Be alert to when it stops being a game and starts being a chore for either or both of you. At this point your main priority is recall, recall, recall, followed by a wait, starting short and gradually extending duration. If you never teach your dog anything else you can get through life together adequately with those two skills. Many would add walking nicely on a lead but if you have built up the relationship that comes with a good recall it may not be too much of a problem in itself. Carry on with the other things you have been training by all means but not at the expense of the basics. Make it worth her while to come back instantly you call her by playing with her, using toys or food or whatever she likes best. Vary it to keep her guessing. There is no set time scale for training. As likely as not you will hit a patch around 6 months when learning slows down or she even seems to forget what she has learned already. it should be temporary so tread water while you wait for her to pass through that phase and just practise what she knows. Don't get mad or despondent. There is no rush. Those that start serious learning later, when they are better able to concentrate, quickly catch up and even overtake the early starters IME. Maybe it's because it's less of a struggle for the handler to overcome adolescent selective focus and obedience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitri Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 thanks for your input everyone yes, i meant agility, but i also wish to teach her advanced obedience. i've some plans with her regarding that! i don't think she's quite at the stage mentally to do advanced tricks, hence i was asking for a good age to start doing more challenging things. ah, i have heard about the 'teenage' stage so much. to be honest i can't wait for it, so i can get it over with haha. Mum24dog, i've tried the recall methods you mentioned; treats, play and things like that as a reward for coming, but sometimes she just decides that scent in a corner of the room is simply more interesting. Ill just keep trying, i can't think of anything else to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmbc Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 There a lots of things you can work on to train your 10 wk old puppy. Folks above gave great suggestions. Now is a perfect time to work on crate games (which teach amazing self control and lays the foundation for great stays) and other great life skills such as out/give, take, getting nails trimmed, meet and great, waiting for food are all great. Shaping tricks such as nose targeting and paw targeting tricks, get in the box (something with low), and perch work are fun ways to engage their minds, build confidence and a relationship with you. You can work on starting to train heel position in a fun way by building value for sitting next to you. you can start to shape your pup to take objects such as a wooden dowel or a metal spoon, which lay foundation for obedience retrieves, etc. The key guide for your training a pup should be keep training short and FUN (a few seconds to a few minutes), make sure it is physically appropriate and focus on things that build a great foundation. If you want more guidance and are thinking about eventually doing agility/obedience, Susan Garrett's puppy peaks is a pretty amazing online course and has a lot of good resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Quinn had the attention span of a strobe light at your pup's age, but he was still soaking up things like a (naughty, busy) sponge. I kept training fun and light, with my mantra being "Always leave him wanting more." If I saw his attention or enthusiasm waning, I stopped and tried hard to stop before any sign he was feeling bored or stressed. Quinn's attention span built pretty quickly, but even at 18 months he would have what I called Irish Setter moments, where he pretty much lost his mind and acted like he had little idea who I was. Still, I was doing agility foundation work, basic obedience, and of course manners from very early on. He was a joy to train, just in frequent, quick bursts. Be patient. Be fun. Have fun. ETA: Regarding the teenage stage, that is when I personally start to have the most fun with my dogs. They can do more, understand more, and training definitely moves up that "level" you mentioned. Yes, they test and defy at times but they are such goofy kids that I find them a crack up, even as I make clear boundaries and expectation. Again, have fun with your girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitri Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 ah, i forgot to mention these. she's fine with her crate, and i'm currently working on having her associate the word 'crate' with being inside it, and hopefully sleep/relaxation. i make her sit and wait for food, with varying times; sometimes a few seconds, sometimes much longer. one major problem we're having is jumping! she will sit if told to, or stop if told 'no', but the moment i turn away, or lean in to interact with her, she starts up all over again! it's also her favourite method of greeting someone i haven't heard of crate games, or shaping tricks. i'll have to look that up. as for our training sessions, i usually keep them short, twice per day, sometimes three. she does have a good focus, to be honest i'm surprised at how quickly she catches on with some things. i'm sure as others have said though that this will diminish once she hits that teenage stage, haha. again thank you for the advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 i've tried the recall methods you mentioned; treats, play and things like that as a reward for coming, but sometimes she just decides that scent in a corner of the room is simply more interesting. Ill just keep trying, i can't think of anything else to do! One thing you must do, and do consistently, is not to call her to come if you can't enforce it. IOW, if she's not on a line and she might just decide to follow whatever the distraction of the moment is, do not use your recall word! If you do -- and even at this young age you might have already done so -- you will make that word meaningless to her. "Come" doesn't mean come, because it's been optional for her. So you might have to switch to "Here". If you just want her to come and she's not on a line, you can entice her with "puppy, puppy, puppy!" or clapping your hands or running away from her, whatever to get her attention and make yourself more interesting than the other thing was. Always praise and treat her lavishly when she does come to you,and release her to go play at least as often as you make her come with you so that she doesn't associate coming to you with the end of play. When you want to practice recalls, put her on a long line so that if she doesn't listen you can reel her in. Then the cue isn't optional; you've reinforced it. Again, don't always make it the end of play. Incorporate the recall into her play so that it's a wonderful and fun thing for her. She's comes and she gets praise and cookies or toys and most of the time gets to keep on playing. Wow! What a fun thing coming to Dad is! Why wouldn't she want to do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Y'know, you might want to consider enrolling her into a puppy class with a good positive reinforcement trainer before the teenage period begins. It will help you lay a good foundation for training and teach you the methods that can be built on later for more intensive training. With mum24dog's agility connections, I'll bet she can help you find someone in your area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kian's Mom Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 As for recall. Put her on a leash or long line and don't give her the option of ignoring you when you call her. Have your treats or toy of whatever you are using call her and give her a minute to respond. If she doesn't give her a gentle tug on the leash and when she comes praise like all get out. Always end on a good note. I would only work about 5 to 10 min with everything and quite or pick 1 or 2 things to work on and come back later. This can be done several times a day just short sessions. We also worked on Leave it. By the time mine was 1 yr she was obedience trained not perfect( straight sits ) but she knew it with voice and hand signals. She has a great drop on recall. I got her at 8 weeks and in February so we worked a lot in the house since we couldn't go out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 give her a minute to respond. IMO, a literal minute is way too long to wait for her to respond. I'd wait maybe 2 seconds. When I call, I want my dogs to come to me right away, not when they fell like getting around to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 This is a trailer for a puppy raising DVD that has got good reviews - With agility in mind. And how to start training handler focus - Human "Dad" is actually a working farmer who trials at Open level. Human "Mum" is the agility fan. Pups are bred with real work in mind whichever they are likely to end up doing, often both in fact. Sire of these pups is a working dog (breeders own sire and dam), regained ISDS registration on merit and is a top grade agility dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kian's Mom Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Sorry to repeat. Was typing at the same time as the others. We were also doing agility. Low dogwalks, wobble board, jumps in lowest position ( 4") and on a short table.<br />Have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Festerling Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 The beauty of the shaping, operant training programs is one that you will benefit from fully a little bit down the road even more so than immediately. I am on my second dog that I have fully worked all kinds of things based on shaping. These two dogs are most likely not much smarter than my old dogs (although maybe different drives as we all learn over the years to pick what suits us even more than we think but that is another story). What they do have though is learning skills. And it makes it so amazing for me. Offer a new project and they can actually help me learn how to teach them....it rocks! And shaping you can start from day one...so fun! Best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Sorry to repeat. Was typing at the same time as the others. We were also doing agility. Low dogwalks, wobble board, jumps in lowest position ( 4") and on a short table.<br />Have fun Just to make clear - this is not recommended for dogs as young as dmitri's pup. A wobble board OK at a little older but equipment definitely not. There is no need to rush to try equipment and so many health and training reasons why you shouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitri Posted January 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 This is a trailer for a puppy raising DVD that has got good reviews - thank you! i shall give these a watch this evening. One thing you must do, and do consistently, is not to call her to come if you can't enforce it. IOW, if she's not on a line and she might just decide to follow whatever the distraction of the moment is, do not use your recall word! If you do -- and even at this young age you might have already done so -- you will make that word meaningless to her. "Come" doesn't mean come, because it's been optional for her. So you might have to switch to "Here". ah. that makes sense. i'll probably have to pick a new word then, as you're completely right with the "come" being meaningless to her now! thank you! and once again thank you everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marley Girl Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I started training my pup just before she turned 7 weeks old. By 12 weeks she was thinking in advance what I was going to say next and doing it before I gave the command. So I had to start switching it up to keep her on her toes. I also added different locations where I train - inside, in the yard, at the grass field, etc. Sometimes I add the Australian shepherd to the mix and train them both together. It's the only time both puppies will focus on me while they sit next to each other and follow commands without a hitch. My border collie is now 18 weeks old and does better in training than the 10 month old Aussie who was started at about 7 or 8 months. So I would definitely say the earlier you start training the better, with the exception of anything your dog is not physically mature enough to do. I also don't train very long so that I have her full attention the entire time we're training. We usually only train for about 5 minutes, but she's extremely focused and her attention is fully on me. It's fun for both of us. I do this multiple times a day. I hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 ah, i have heard about the 'teenage' stage so much. to be honest i can't wait for it, so i can get it over with haha. Savor it. I mean that. Yes, it can be a challenging time, but "teenage" dogs have creativity, energy, and qualities that you may wish you could have back years and years from now! You might want to check out the Control Unleashed puppy book. It's a great foundation for any dog who will do any sport. And the games can just be a lot of fun. But really - appreciate every minute even if it requires some work at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Mum, I just watched the puppy stampede video - wow. It was great fun, and watching those little furballs run made me want one of my own. Not gonna happen any time soon, if ever, but that was sooooooo cute. Ruth and Agent Gibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 This may be the cutest thing I have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kat3cats Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 This is so cute! I watched it yesterday morning and Jack ran all over the house looking for those barking puppies, it was too cute. I laughed my butt off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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