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When (bc age) and where should I start agility training?


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Effie is the first border collie and puppy I have ever owned. Growing up we often adopted rescue dogs...so Effie has been a whole new adventure. Some of you who read my previous posts saw I was worried about Effie as a smaller puppy...she was always neurotic and hated the outdoors. Going into her I guess you would call awkward "teen" stage she has become so much more confident and active. She continuously amazes me with her intelligence and adaptability.

 

Just for laughs recently I would tap on some of the obstacles in our small agility course to see if she would do them (without treats). Now she races through every single obstacle just for fun...I don't even coax her to run. Only one I've had to actually work with her with are the weavy pole things. She seems to really enjoy doing the course to my surprise. I have no knowledge of agility except for what I've seen on television. So my main questions are how long should I wait to train Effie on a real agility course (she is 5 months now)? Also should I go to a training session or personal trainer for myself and Effie? Basically the dog and human need to be trained.

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Whoa, no. Five months is way, way too young to be doing any real jumping, slamming down onto 2o2o or doing the twisting involved in weaves. At MOST, running through the tunnel and the uprights of jumps with no bars. Full height obstacles? 18 months, give or take. Definitely not before a year. SOME jumping and contact obstacles, maybe at that year.

 

Doesn't mean you shouldn't be training her with an eye toward agility but that means flat, foundation work. Teach her to recall to your left and right on cue. Teach her to run away from you and around and bucket or cone to the left and right. Target a lid on the ground to get a treat. Really, really good solid sits, downs and stays. Recalls with (high) distractions. Spinning to the left and right on cue. Tugging and out. Working consistently and reliably on both your left and right. Standing on low, moving, or strange surfaces. Playing and being willing to play in all different environments and around other dogs/strangers/whatever. Focus on YOU in those situations.

 

Agility's a lot more than the obstacles. Doing it well means having the foundations in place, anyway. May as well work on those while you're waiting on her body to grow and mature enough that the pounding they can take in agility isn't going to cause harm.


You should ABSOLUTELY go to a class, both for you and her. There's a lot that's not particularly intuitive about agility for the handler, and a lot of bad habits that can be dangerous that dogs can pick up. Even if you're just doing it for fun, you really need to get into a class of some sort, IMO, to teach you and the dog how to navigate those obstacles safely.

 

My girl's 5 months old too. She starts her foundations class in January at 8 months. If timing worked out I'd do the foundations classes at 6 months, but absolutely nothing earlier and foundations don't involve obstacle work; they're just handling skills.

 

We'll probably bobble Molly between Foundations and Beginner (should be 12 months) with very lowered obstacles until she's 18 months, then step up to the higher levels. My other dog didn't start foundations until 18 months. The third I do a bit of agility with started when she was 8 YEARS old.

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I am coming back to add that I do understand the appeal, the draw, the amazement at what these guys can do so young. There's a lot of... maturity in some ways present in my girl, too, and a heck of a lot of athletic ability and fearlessness. It's *exciting*.

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My daughter is taking a puppy agility class with our six month old. They did their first agility course this week. It consisted of jumps with no bar, a couple of tunnels, the teeter set really low, and a table also set really low. There was no pressure to run the course fast. All the emphasis was to run the course well and to have fun. We also began weave poles but there were only two poles. We were training how to enter correctly and the instructor was very firm about not doing more.

 

Most of the class is taken up with foundation work like CptJack described.

 

My daughter is also taking an intermediate agility class running the dog of a friend. In the class is a 18 month old dog that took the puppy agility classes and the dog is really fast and is really impressive at how she handles the obstacles. The puppy classes do pay off and they are a lot of fun. :)

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Yeah this is a baby obstacle course... it's very very small. The highest jump is about a foot and a half high at the most. I don't have an exact photo but I found this goofy replica of the same exact course on google images. The only thing different is the bridge isn't as elevated as that one...its more flat and bridge-like.

 

Thank you this is excellent advice. I'll start with those practice commands and more obedience training until the time comes. I'm thinking sometime in December we will start her classes for foundations then. I've found some nearby classes but the prices seem too good to be true...so I'm going to have to keep researching my area. Does $35 per training session the norm amount spent? Its Zoom Room Dog Training....they have a lot of locations in different states. They offer agility 1-4 and also Agility league.

 

I'm very excited to start taking classes with Effie when the right time comes. :) Excited I might pick up a new hobby that can keep me and my gal in good shape.

 

Wow at 8 years that's amazing! An old dog really can learn new tricks....of course border collies can! :P A more personal question...have you ever taught an adopted rescue border collie agility?? There are so many rescue dogs in our area. When the right time comes I'd love to give a rescue a forever home.

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Wow at 8 years that's amazing! An old dog really can learn new tricks....of course border collies can! :P A more personal question...have you ever taught an adopted rescue border collie agility?? There are so many rescue dogs in our area. When the right time comes I'd love to give a rescue a forever home.

 

Whoops. I didn't answer this the first time. I have not taught an adopted border collie but that 8 year old? Is a deaf boston terrier I adopted at 5, and has bad knees and a high grade heart murmur. She is NEVER going to set the agility world on fire, but she sure has fun in class. I need to take another class or two with her, honestly - it's good for her physical fitness and muscle tone and she really loves working on something with me. I'm SURE a border collie rescue would be a comparative walk in the park.

 

That course actually looks really cute and really fun. Just be careful with what you let her do and, in particular, make sure she goes ALL THE WAY DOWN that a-frame to the bottom if you keep playing with it. Honestly, though, if classes are in the books I'd forgo it and learn from the ground up so she hasn't formed ideas about how things should be done. Training is easier than retraining, you know?

 

And prices are just all over the place, cost wise. I'd probably advise you to find some class taught by an instructor who has titled dogs in agility - multiple dogs - but I don't know a thing about Zoom Room. My classes are run out of a day care place, that also hosts a regional flyball team and brings an instructor in. I don't pay a whole heck of a lot, but I live in a low cost of living area.

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Yes it surely is amazing CptJack. Border Collie puppies are the most mature pups I have ever seen. So much focus and drive!

 

RemsMom that's awesome I can't wait to do a class like that with Effie! Sounds like a lot of fun. :) I was wondering how trainers went about the weave poles...lol that explains it! I have Effie go through them very very slowly...I wish I could pull a few of them out to make the concept easier to grasp. But as far as running...I never push Effie when she runs shes doing it to release her puppy energy. She only runs in the tunnel, bridge and 8 inch jump. Its basically a small course made for lap dogs I would never take her on anything that would be dangerous.

 

Wow that cool is she going for competitive agility? That's good to hear classes pay off. I'm friends with a German woman...she told me in Germany they have a puppy school where they learn all this stuff! Ha I think my mom's poorly trained dogs need to be sent to Germany!!!

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Weave poles are hard, but basically to avoid luring you send the dog through a set of 2 uprights. Reward and send them in from a lot of different angles and directions and sides. Then add another set NOT in line with the first. Bring them slowly in line to get the weave. Then add more.


Weaves have to ALWAYS be done with the first pole on the dog's left side, too.


There are a lot of weird little things like that in agility that just - Well, it's another reason to make classes very worth it.

 

Molly amazes me a lot. I'm actually intentionally holding her back right now and took ball playing entirely OUT for a bit. I'm getting a lot of crazy leaping and twisting as she's figured out how to throw the ball herself, or head butt it up to jump from it and I'm NOT OKAY with this at her age. She in a lot of ways acts like an adult dog, but she's a baby.

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D112358 Effie is pretty large I think for her breed? She's about 30 pounds and is higher than my knees. She is now 18 inches tall to her shoulders. Idk correct me if I'm wrong...a lot of border collie's I've seen aren't as big boned looking in my area. Her parent's were about the size of my mother's boxer dog. As far as jumps its only about 6-8 inches high on the pole.

 

Well that's even more amazing! How did you teach a deaf dog? Poor baby...I had a Boston growing up named Lill. She had a TON of health problems anal glands, breathing, and GI. Seem's like a lot of smaller short snout dogs always get the bad stuff. :/ It's great your doing that with her! I love rescues I can't wait to adopt one and maybe foster a few.

 

Yeah that's very good advice. I will lay off on training her...she seems to pick up bad habits during trick training! Luckily I have been weaving her in on her left side so I luckily didn't do any irreparable damage lol!! I'll stick to her obedience and getting her use to children now. Next month she will be taking it easy. My mother is making me get her fixed at the end of this month through all the arguing...since we are in the city. :( Just really upset about it because I wanted to wait longer for her sake. I know people on here really say to wait till they are 18 months...people in Austin are all about spaying and neutering all animals so they look at me like I'm being irresponsible for waiting this long (even at the vet).

 

Yes I'm going to try and find someone with a good reputation here. I'm in the city so it probably will be pricey unless I drive further out into the smaller towns. :P The search is on!

 

Haha she actually tries to throw the ball herself?! Yeah spinning always makes me nervous...that's why I don't let Effie play with the rougher dogs! My Effie sometimes bounces the tennis ball intentionally on our tile floors to chase after it. I crack up when she brings the ball to our cat like he's going to fetch with her!!! :lol::lol::lol:

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Training a deaf dog's really not so hard. If you think about how you go about regular dog training there's a lot of hand motions involved and words don't mean much to start. She's got a hand signal that means "YES" like a click (Thumbs up) and that she's going to get a treat, and one that means no (ASL - no) to mean try again and no treat. She has to keep her eyes on me, of course, but she's really an engaged and interested dog, so that's not too big of a deal. Can be hard to get her attention again in a hurry if she's NOT watching, but you get used to it.

 

Molly actually DOES throw the ball herself. She's not so great with a tennis ball yet, but the big inflatable thing? Yes. After I ended up going out to take pictures and getting this, I just plain took that ball away. And the other one since she seemed to want to transfer this stuff onto it.

 

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Maybe later, puppy, but when that ball gets reintroduced it's going to be with RULES.

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That's really cool. Shows how adaptive animals can really be when they don't have all their senses. Reminds me of this poor gal in a local Collie Rescue group I saw. Sadly due to her I guess being white some kind of gene mutation caused her to be blind and deaf. She adapted by smell luckily but always needs to be supervised .:/

 

Hahaha wow that's awesome looks like she's about to do a slam dunk! She's going to be fun to watch when she's older! I bet she's going to love frisbee too!! Is your girl a smooth coat?

 

Here's some recent one's of not so little Effie! Her puppy fuzz is gone!!!

 

 

 

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Here's Effie watching tv with my fiance! Matching bellies too! :P

 

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People watching...

 

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What a cutie!

Yeah, Molly's a smooth coat. This is an actual decent shot of her. With like focus and things:

M6_zps7408a7cf.jpg

 

I FULLY believe that when I introduce that dog to a frisbee she's going to believe she's found her purpose in life. Or at least one of the loves. It's just going to have to wait for a bit, beyond tugging and catching it when it rolls around the ground for a while yet.

 

She's super into STUFF though, which is a lot of fun.

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Interesting thread. Mae (coming up to 5mnths) plays on some puppy sized agility equipment at the local club, just for fun, including a little A-frame. She also has learnt that she can throw a ball in the air and jump to catch it, which she does for fun. She also spends an hour a day chasing/biting/rolling/fighting her equally mental puppy friends.

 

I've let her do all of this, never pushed or forced to do anything she didn't want to do or work at an effort that she would feel uncomfortable i.e. let her be a puppy. Sounds like you a little more controlling CptJack for the protection of the dog, have a got that right? Is this based on any negative experience?

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Oh, I will let her run, jump, play, wrestle, to her heart's content with the other dogs on her own, but agility equipment and ball? Yeah, I'm less likely to let her do her thing, there and impose limits. Why? She's a border collie. They aren't exactly prone to stopping when it hurts or because they're tired. For me, or at least with her, the presence of the ball contradicts self-limiting exercise; the ball being there and in motion is egging her on toward continuing on. It's NOT just because 'YAY FUN' it's also because border collie and prey-drive and "MOVING, MUST CHASE". My other dogs will stop that crap. The ball won't.

 

The agility thing is as much about bad habits as physical damage. I don't need her having an accident, even a small one, and developing a fear of the equipment anymore than someone who wants to work sheep with their dog wants their dog getting kicked and becoming afraid of them.

 

I also don't need her developing bad habits I will have to UNteach later, either. There are RULES for playing agility. Like learning you have to go all the way down the a-frame, every time, even if it's low and throwing yourself over a jump willy nilly won't cut it and waves must always be entered from one direction and you have to stay on the teeter until it's on the ground and drive off it with speed.

 

Some of it's safety - I mean, really, I want her (or any dog) with puppy brain going off the top of the aframe or turning back to sniff the teeter as it resets and getting smacked in the head and hurt. Also, people radically underestimate how dangerous and hard on a dog's body agility can be- but there's also just plain laying the right foundation.


Basically, I play ball and tug and fun things with her. I let her play. I let her play hard. But in situations where there are physical, mental, and training drawbacks I see no reason not to set limits that I know she won't set herself.

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Oh and directly:

 

I suppose in a sense it's based on negative experience, at least somewhat. I've watched enough other people screw up with puppies in regard to agility foundations and be frustrated by those early mistakes in training/not training to not much care to do that.

 

Otherwise, nah. Not unless you count watching a high drive dog or puppy do things like keep running through some pretty serious injury from things as simple as torn off nails to muscle injury to dislocations and broken bones because BALL (frisbee, game, owner asking them to, tug, whatever). Which, upon reflection, really does count.

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Border Collies are extremely willing to hurt themselves and keep going, so it's up to the people to think ahead about what could happen. Agility is an extreme athlete sport and needs a fully mature dog for some(a lot) of it. There is a lot you can train your puppy to do without hurting it, but you have got to know what types of things can hurt a young pup and avoid them or modify them. Have fun, but take your time getting there. The reason that they say to wait until 18 months before doing certain things is because the growth plates in the major leg bones are not closed until then and it is extremely easy for a puppy to do themselves permanent damage. Joints aren't fully formed until the dog is completely done growing and joint damage can be life changing.

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I'd recommend doing a pre agility or foundation class. The instructor should be able to tell you what age your dog needs to be. If you move on to things like jumps you can do so with the bar on the ground. Generally with younger dogs you would jump them very small at first or just not even put a bar up. My 7-11 month old (he's a rescue terrier/cattle dog we think and don't know age) is starting to jump around 4" just to get him used to . His growth plates seem to be closed but even so I'm not in a rush with him. It's easy to do things wrong and just not worth it so I'm erring on the side of caution and pretending like he's 6 months just to be safe.

 

The best thing though if you're new is to get in a good class with an instructor that knows their stuff. It's pretty impossible to know what to do if you haven't really done the sport before. The obstacles are only a small part, most of it is handling and that can be done on the flat. We didn't even get on equipment other than a tunnel, wobble board, and jump stands with no bars for about the first 6 weeks of class. I started class with my current agility dog at 8 years old. First trial at 9 years old and she has 5 titles now at 10 1/2. You can really start at any age as long as the dog is healthy and sound and still have success.

 

Jumping after a ball or frisbee is also something I'd limit. I'm fine with young dogs playing and chasing but I don't want them jumping too much. I'm actually not a big fan of frisbee in general. I've talked to so many people who have had frisbee injuries especially with high drive dogs. All the twisting and landing hard on the back legs over and over.

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One of the ways to find good instruction is to go to a local trial (akc.org, usdaa.org, ukinternationalagility.org all list trials by location and date -- assuming you are in the U.S.) and watch a couple of Masters/Excellent classes. Identify 6-12 handlers who impress you with their speed and smoothness -- the ones that make it look easy and effortless -- or with their ability to overcome handicaps and still qualify (for example, mobility-challenged handlers). After the class, find them and ask them where they train, and -- if they are not local -- where they might recommend a newbie should get training in your area.

 

Agility is about precision in handling and speed, much more so than getting your dog over specific obstacles. Pet/non-competition classes are sometimes very different from those aimed at agility handlers who are hoping to put championship titles on their dogs -- and those folks do a LOT of foundation training before ever putting dogs on courses. But if you can get yourself into classes with someone who also trains serious competition handlers, you -- and more importantly your dog -- are likely to be in good hands. It sounds like you have the dog to do it with, and an interest in pursuing this beyond playing around. Good luck!

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I am glad I read on these forums not to let puppies overexert themselves before I got Nattie. She is so athletic and I am amazed at how high she can jump to get a ball. I can see how it would be so easy for a puppy to get hurt because they are just so fun to watch and they never stop! I keep a close eye on anyone that plays with Nattie so I can tell them how to play and when to stop.

 

Effie is adorable! I love your story about her trying to get the cat to play fetch. When my daughter was a baby I had a GSD that would put his ball on the tray of the walker in a attempt to get the baby to throw it. We would have to race to the baby and get the ball before she grabbed it and attempted to put it in her mouth. :blink:

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Thanks for the helpful advice everyone! :) That's a really good idea I am going to see who's in my area actually! I want her to be trained the right way and myself! I've been watching tons of AKC agility competitions on youtube this week...its so amazing! Shows a true partnership between a dog and its owner!

 

We got Effie from a farm but they said she was registered with AKC and the American Border Collie Association...we have all her papers. They said we need to send AKC a snip of her hair?? Not sure how all that registration stuff works...I just wanted myself a border collie but its great she has paperwork and was from a champion bloodline. :) They said a lot of her family line compete in South America...they were very interesting people. I wouldn't mind getting Effie a brother or sister from them later down the line even though the drive was 6 hours!

 

Luckily Effie isn't a jumper...and if she runs its at her own pace! She often poops out really fast after a few runs! I can really tell she's at the lower energy of the breed which is a good thing in a lot of instances! :P That's why I'm so surprised with the agility playground...she gets all of this hidden energy! I love it! I think I found her niche that she really likes...she gets too uninterested in fetching for some reason!

 

Omg haha that's too cute!! Its funny how dogs think every person or animal know how to play fetch like them! Babies and dogs are the best! Here are a couple of poor quality videos of Effie and Thor's friendship! Sorry took it on an ipad with a weird flappy case so it came out vertical! I really need to find my stinkin camera charger!!

 

Here is where they both try to fetch!

 

 

 

 

This is one I took last night of Effie trying to get Thor to play tug of war. She's very adamant that he plays with her and not us! :P

 

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