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I have been reading this forum for about a year but this is my first reply to the message board. I read Jon Katz's book "A Dog Year" during the winter of 2004-2005. Because of his book and my love for dogs I decided to buy my first dog. My wife and I have had two dogs since we have been married but this one was all my doing.

 

I purchased a Border Collie from a breeder in Kentucky. It was love at first sight. Ruger comes from a line of working dogs but is now settled into suburban life.

 

If I ever had the chance to meet Mr. Katz I would give him a thank you for his book. I am one person that he has influenced where my life has changed in one big aspect. I never dreamed I would throw so many frisbees in a day before Ruger.

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Ruger's Dad, it's great that you're thrilled with Ruger but what about the other people who based on a pretty non-consequential book decide they need a Border Collie also? What happens when they get tired for throwing that frisbee or being stared at on the toilet?

 

A lot of things in day to day motivate us to want one thing or another, and sometimes it's the absolute right choice, but when it comes to lives, there's a responsibility that comes with promoting them. And while I'm all for dogs in books, and positive stories, I don't think Mr. Katz has been particularly responsible in his story telling or in his dispensing of advice.

 

So, as far as I'm concerned he doesn't bring anything good to the BC table...or to the dog table for that matter.

 

Maria

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GeorgiaBC, we get it---you're a fan. Katz has quite a few of them. But popularity doesn't mean he's good for dogs, no matter how many people buy his books. Jon Katz is very bad for dogs in general and border collies in particular, and if his opinions aren't challenged, it's the dogs that will suffer.

 

Sadly, it seems we're stuck with him. Katz knows he's hit pay dirt with the dog thing:

"I'm a dog writer now. I love what I'm writing. Don't get me wrong. I've always loved my work and wrote some books that pleased me. But I've had some pretty lonely signings and readings at bookstores--certainly no crowds.

 

"With 'A Dog Year,' the readings are standing room only. People come with pictures of their dogs; they want to tell me stories. They bring treats for my dogs, who go with me to every appearance." [From a June 23, 2002 L.A. Times article.]

And gosh, those crowds must mean he knows what he's talking about! Never mind that he's used a dog to herd donkeys and left a months-old pup alone for hours with a pen full of sheep. Never mind that he says most rescue dogs can't be rehabilitated and in fact are responsible for America's dog bite epidemic, etc., etc.

 

Eileen, who has read his books, had this to say in one of the threads linked above:

[Katz] says the show breeder from whom he got his border collies, whom he portrays as supremely knowledgeable, "thought some of the herding partisans were plain fanatics, breeding needlessly hostile, undomesticated dogs." This is an absurdity, and yet, since the book was published, I have noticed a number of border collie newcomers posting here -- as if it were a known and accepted fact -- that working border collies are bred without regard to temperament, that they are wild and aggressive, and that if you want a dog you can live with and who won't kill your cockatoo you must go to a show breeder. I'm sure that, thanks to Katz, this is widely believed now.
Yeesh. He is very, very bad for dogs.
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How do I get a picture to show up with my member name and number?

 

Maria:

Both our dog's have accompanied us to many softball games this year. I have purposely allowed young children to play fetch with Ruger. My main goal was to get him use to being around children so he would be more socialized. Ruger has a one track mind when playing frisbee and the kids love him. I think for most it was the first time they actually played with a dog that brought anything back to them on command. By the way, I am always there helping the kids because Ruger is young and plays rough.

 

Besides that, when not playing frisbee at the ballpark he is totally engrossed in the game. Believe you me, everyone has noticed his intesity to follow the ball during the game. He should be a play by play announcer.

 

I have had numerous adults asking about him. Unless a person is a total "dog person", I always recommend against purchasing a Border Collie even though they are the best breed there is.

 

The message that I got from the Katz book is exactly what I tell everyone. The Border Collie may be the smartest breed there is but it comes at a price. Katz left no doubt in my mind that a Border Collie is a huge responsibilty. I learned from Katz that this is not a lap dog but one that is designed to work. From reading his book I learned that this was a dog for me. I also learned from his book that this is not a dog for just anyone.

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From above: "GeorgiaBC, we get it---you're a fan."

 

Actually, I'm not. But I have read the books and in all honesty cannot see how this one man became the Osama Bin Laden of dog owners. Also, I'm very sensitive to anyone complaining about books (yes, I'm an ACLU-loving, card-carrying liberal). People are free to read books or not read them. And yes, people on this board are free to have their opinions. But there are many greater threats to the border collie breed than this one particular author. And, per Ruger's Dad, I think Katz makes it quite clear in his books that (1) He is NOT a border collie expert. (2) He has made mistakes. And (3) Border collies are clearly not for everyone. With that in mind, Katz's books simply become a chronicle of one man's experiences. And, yes, I know I'm supposed to ignore posts that bother me--but it just seems like one person complains about something in a post and a feeding frenzy starts. It does not shine a positive light on these boards, on the people who post here, or on dog ownership in general. I'm the father of two boys, and every now and then I have to tell them to stop whining...stop complaining. It just wears me down. Same here. So just think of me as the grouchy father of the boards. It's summer--go out and play...with your dogs!

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Ruger's Dad,

 

I'm not picking on you, honest, but it's not really folks like you that concern me much, or even those who ask questions about your dogs, as people do about mine, and I'm also very upfront about my views on BC ownership and dog ownership in general. It sounds like you have a great relationship with your dogs (from your posts) and are doing right by them.

 

But it's the people who blindly make a choice based on a book AND don't ask questions of anyone. Sometimes it's a win win but other times it's a lose lose...and it's the dog who loses twice as much.

 

And just because he says his dogs are not for everyone, it doesn't mean that everyone doesn't think these dogs are perfect for them. AFter all, they're cute, fun, and brilliant...should be pretty easy to train! Everyone thinks they can do better.....

 

Continue enjoying your pooches...sounds like life is good for all of you.

 

Maria

 

PS: if you go to my profile and edit, you can put in a link to a photo for an avatar...I think that's how it's done.

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Just last night I was given a copy of "The Dogs of Bedlam Farm". Someone knew I had a BC and passed the book along to me. You know, this Katz guy can't be all that bad. On the back of the book I found this quote - "Funny, touching, and insightful... a perfect gift for the introspective dog owner." - AKC Gazette :rolleyes::D

 

I've probably read a third of the book so far, and I think the quote Mark posted sums it up really well. Katz seems to think that he has "arrived", when in fact he is showing just how little he knows. But the vast majority of the public don't have a clue, and are enchanted by his stories of "life on the farm".

 

His book makes it sound as if life on a hobby farm will just about do you in. I'm not sure what he did to his dog during lambing time, but by the end of it he felt he "owed her a break" because she was so stressed out - and this was his best working dog! But maybe it was because he had a young, inexperienced dog in quarters working ewes with newborn lambs getting butted and kicked in the process.

 

But that is probably because he believes that some BC owners are "rigid snobs" who think that it is "reckless and even irresponsible" to train a puppy for herding without professional help. But I really don't think he looked into any sort of herding training because in the next paragraph he was talking about using sticks and food as motivators in herding.

 

Anyway, thats my 2 cents...

 

Edited to add - Georgia BC, we're just giving our oppinion. You don't have to like it or agree with it. If you don't think the subject is important to discuss, you could just go play with your dogs....

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Also, I'm very sensitive to anyone complaining about books (yes, I'm an ACLU-loving, card-carrying liberal).
You're talking to a former co-chair of the local chapter. I must have missed the directive re: complaining about books. Along with many others here, I'd be glad to contribute to a fund defending Katz's right to voice his opinions, but the First Amendment doesn't guarantee any author the right to fawning reviews and a spot on the bestseller list. Or a Slate column, for that matter.

It's summer--go out and play...with your dogs!
What are you, nuts...?! :rolleyes: It's over 100 degrees outside and Mexico and Argentina are tied 1-1...! Halftime's over. Catch you folks later---
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GeorgiaBC thinks it's not PC to voice opinions about books because that would be complaining about the content of a book. As a first amendment position, GeorgiaBC's assertion is a contradiction in terms. He apparently thinks books are too sacred to be subject to discussion and negative comment by people who know more about the subject than the author.

 

It's safe to say that's not a position the ACLU would be happy with. That's not a position other card-carrying liberals are at all likely to share. I can't even think of many ultra-conservatives in this country who would share it.

 

I have read Katz's books on dogs carefully. The first two have amusing moments arising from Katz's ineptitude. He's a bit like a Keystone Cop armed with a pooper scooper. That facet of the books is fine.

 

What is not fine and needs to be pointed out to newcomers and people not familiar with border collies is that Katz's publication blurbs do, indeed, state that he is a leading expert. The same people need to know he spouts a lot of misinformation on border collies and dogs in general both in print and on the air.

 

Do you really think acquiring a stolen dog is all right? Go read his article on that subject in Slate.

 

How much research have you done?

 

Being grouchy is fine with me. I'm grouchy myself. Instead of playing with your dog (I hope you solved that "serious" Frisbee problem you addressed a while ago...what a tough problem), why don't you go to the library, check out those books, and read for content?

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I didn't read a book to decide I wanted a Border Collie. I didn't see a movie. I didn't hear someone talk about it on a talk show. I happened to see a huge sheep dog trial from the freeway in Lebec CA. For 2 1/2 yrs. I researched everything I could find on the breed. Some good, some bad. But after 2 1/2 yrs., I was hooked and commited. That's what made me to decide. I saw them working.

 

I know what "101 dalmations" did to the damnation, why would this movie be any different? People are that way.

 

How about a movie showing a BC following you everywhere you go? How about showing a BC full of mud cuz he got the backyard zoomies after a rain? How about a movie showing a BC running himself in circles in the backyard, cuz that's the only excersise he gets? Or showing the BCs put down, because an owner saw Babe and wanted one, but didn't know the dog would sub the neighbor kids and his own for sheep? How about showing the dogs so fear aggresive they are no longer capable of trusting humans because an un-informed owner beat the dog to stop what is "normal" BC traits? How about a movie showing how easy they can get their feelings broke? There is a million things I love about the breed. But there are also things I tolerate. Like letting that dog that got the muddy zoomies get on my lap to give me kisses just because he was so damn happy.

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I read Katz's books several years ago and he convinced me that I DIDN'T want a Border Collie. I wanted his mellow Labs, Julius and Stanley instead. It was handling and photographing thousands of dogs at an animal shelter that led me to bring home two Borders as "fosters". I failed at fostering because we ended up keeping them both.

 

Katz writes well and he publishes his screwups on paper for all to see. I would be ashamed to write about some of the stupid things I have done with dogs...

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Bordercentrics and Maralyn have helped to nail exactly why the books so are treacherous in terms of misinformation. Katz does write about his mistakes. This is what gives him so much false credibility when he exaggerates (for example, the exhaustion of lambing a dozen or fewer ewes) or departs from the truth (for example, blaming the weirdness of the dog he released in an airport for the incident as though even the most level headed of dogs might not have panicked in the same circumstances).

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Katz's writing skills are average and he publishes his screwups with no humility, no apology, and no real sense that he has learned from his mistakes. He relates his episodes of boobery with a kind of hubris and it galls me. Yes we all do stupid things, but the humble and insightful ones among us learn from those mistakes, accept that mistakes were actually made, and endeavor to not make the same mistakes again. We do not make a career out of it.

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Slapstick comedians do/did make a career of it. Katz's version is life to memoir as slapstick. Think of the potential if he takes up rodeo or avalanche search and rescue.

 

[in fairness, I point out that Katz's prose style is good enough for me as a reader and a lot better than mine.]

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I first encountered Jon Katz on slashdot.org, a geek hangout that does not suffer fools and self-appointed-experts gladly. Here's a good summary from Wikipedia.com of the ire that Katz raised in that community:

 

>>>Slashdot.org

 

In 1999, Katz left HotWired to join Slashdot.org. Many of his contributions to Slashdot were focused on the youth subculture of geeks and social misfits. In the article Voices from the Hellmouth, written shortly after the Columbine school shootings in Littleton, Colorado (near Denver), he commented on the relationship of the shootings with the angst and social isolation of teenage geeks within high school subcultures.

 

Controversy

 

His writing was frequently not well-received by Slashdot readers. Among the charges often levelled at him were that he was not an authentic geek and was seeking to co-opt and sensationalize geek subculture, that his writings (especially those on technical topics) were uninformed gibberish, and that he had an unhealthy fixation on the Columbine shootings. In the Slashdot subculture, variants on the phrase "in this post-Columbine world" are occasionally used with satirical intent, and are regarded as typical of Katz.

 

There was a large controversy when Katz posted an article about an e-mail he believed to be from an Afghani teenager named "Junis", writing to him via the newly-restored Internet. Katz never disclosed the original e-mail, but it was an evident hoax and probably a parody designed to fool him. According to Katz, Junis wrote his e-mail from "his ancient Commodore computer", which he had 'dug up' and was now using to download movies, pornography, and MP3s thanks to the recent liberation of Afghanistan.

 

And here's a link from one of Katz's slashdot critics:

 

http://www.theobvious.com/archive/1999/03/25.html

 

 

I also remember that Katz's presence was irritating enough to cause some Slashdot folks to create special filtering software to block out his posts, as well as (I believe) a "katzdot" drinking game that included, among other things, instructions to drink whenever Katz used the first-person singular pronoun. For some peculiar reason, the slashdot community found it irritating that someone who didn't know a pixel from a line of linux code would have the nerve to come onto their site and generalize about "geek culture." And now that his "uninformed gibberish" is encroaching on sheepdog culture, I have even more sympathy for their position.

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There is absolutely no difference in what Katz has done to glamorize the Border Collie than what we do everyday with ours. Katz wrote about his triumps and trials with his dogs. Just as what has been posted here, his books will make some want to become Border Collie owners and some to never want to own one.

 

In the same way, should I stop playing frisbee outside so someone does not get the opinion that these are great dogs to play with. Should I stop walking my dog so someone doesn't think "Hey, what a beautiful dog. I may want to purchase one." Maybe we should ban agility so nobody gets the idea that these are beautiful, intelligent, and athletic dogs.

 

Maybe Katz should put a disclaimer in his book just as we should wear on the back of our shirts while working and playing with our Border Collies. "Do not try this on your own. We are what you call EXPERTS."

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"There is absolutely no difference in what Katz has done to glamorize the Border Collie than what we do everyday with ours."

 

Yes, there are differences. You don't depart from truth about your experience or let publishers claim you are an expert or spout misinformation on the radio or write dog training manuals, do you?

 

There is a huge difference. I will give you a few examples. Do you tell people that pet dogs only have a natural lifespan of 8 years? Allow your spouse/significant other (for Katz, this would be publishers)to introduce you as a leading canine expert? Take in dogs known to be stolen and likely to be suffering from who knows what, promise a home, then send the dog on because you lack time, then write about the former and not the latter?

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There's also the difference of the kind of people seeking out a message board to learn more about a specific breed and the kinds of people who pick up an endearing book or go see a doggy movie and then decide they "want one of those".

 

Unlike anyone who comes here, or the few who see you with your dogs or me with mine (etc etc)who look for more info, the film really will appeal to the masses, informed and not.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like dog movies and dog books, I bought Katz books, I just decided after reading them, and about him (through his interviews) that I didn't like him and he's just not a good spokesperson for doggy-dom. He does however seem to be an excellent spokesperson for himself.

 

And if we're being honest, he does as big a disservice to the majestic labs as he does the BC's. Anyone living with a couple young labs can tell you that life isn't particularly simple either....

 

Maria...who did play in the pool with her dogs!

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Hmm.

 

We were in Yorkshire at the end of April & beginning of May. We stay mostly on working farms. I asked about the collie on the one with 150 ewes. The collie was "put up" in the shed on the hill bacause, and I do quote word for word "because it's lambing season". The speaker then expanded to tell me that the farmers generally keep the dogs penned while the ewes are lambing and use them only to help move ther older ones up onto the moors.

 

Maybe things are different here because of different breeds of sheep - they are either Swaledales or Swaledale mixes where we go in Yorkshire.

 

Anyhow, I do have to question allowing an untrained dog to be in with ewes who are lambing. Not from my own, non-existant, farm experience. But from the comments from those I trust because they live by their relevant experience.

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The guy's an idiot - or inept. His discription of the "hardships" he faced raising sheep in Upstate NY simply DO NOT RING TRUE to a person who actually lives in Upstate NY and raises sheep. If I had all the help he had raising my flock of 80 ewes, I'd be in HEAVEN. And what I don't think most of the pet owners, who seem to be responding to this thread in support of Katz, understand is many things he did were simply IRRESPONSIBLE. Ignorance is bliss . . .

 

Kim

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I use my dogs during lambing, and have known people from overseas who do so also. Certainly they would not use their untrained pups, however.

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