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Guest kimkathan
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Guest kimkathan

I've gotten the recall on this now 1 year old pup to where she will come to me 100% of the time (yea)She has gotten to where, with quiet sheep she does not need to have the line on her, will stop/down at the balance and off balance, is gettin more solid on her flanks, will flank in front of and behind me (this came unusually quick and stuck). She seems to be a very natural pup and picks things up very quick if I know what I am doing. However the problem has now arisin that she will come to me, and I can say that'll do and walk any where on the field with her EXCEPT the gate to go out. I've been having to put her on a line to get her out of the pen, otherwise whe will come with me to the point of the gate with no problem, but if I don't have a line there to put on her or hold onto the coller she will go back and start to work again. I can down her and get a hold of her, but I don't want to be forever "leading" her off the field. Any advice on this situation. If I do put her on a line to take her off there is no struggle or resistance she comes quietly, but it is because she knows that there is no way else. Do you think that she will eventually get the idea that when we go off the field not to keep working if I keep walking her off?

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Guest Carol Campion

Kim writes:

 

I've been having to put her on a line to get her out of the pen, otherwise whe will come with me to the point of the gate with no problem, but if I don't have a line there to put on her or hold onto the coller she will go back and start to work again. I can down her and get a hold of her, but I don't want to be forever "leading" her off the field. Any advice on this situation. If I do put her on a line to take her off there is no struggle or resistance she comes quietly, but it is because she knows that there is no way else. Do you think that she will eventually get the idea that when we go off the field not to keep working if I keep walking her off?

 

Carol writes:

 

Congrats on your successes!

 

Yes—if you are persistant she will eventually give up running back to the sheep. You need to be consistant and make sure she never gets to work them if she does run back.

 

I would also try teaching her this concept from a new angle.

 

Put the line on her. Be near the sheep. Ask her to lie down. You walk a few steps away from her and away from the sheep toward the gate (but not all the way to the gate). Do not let her come along. Keep her down there til you call her to you once you are part way to the gate. Once she is to you, lie her down again and take a few more steps leaving her there to wait on your next command. Repeat this in small sequences til you reach the gate. You can do this all over the field as well!

 

Also, try doing this BEFORE you start working her. Let her learn that you will not let her work the sheep at all unless she will show you she can come off the sheep and out the gate first! Then do your training session. Then slowly start this exercise with her off the line. Remember—you are trying to teach her that she is not allowed to work unless she will come off the sheep.

 

I have done this with a student and her dog with great success. Her dog would go into orbit and do these BIG outruns when she was commanded to stop working. The dog just got wider and wider and so got away with it because the only way to get the dog's attention & engage it was to flank it and walk it up. But by doing this—the dog won. So we started doing just what I am recommending to you and it worked great.

 

Again, it takes a little time. You need to break down her old sequence & pattern.

 

I am guessing you maybe inherited this problem???

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Guest Carol Campion

Kim writes:

 

I've been having to put her on a line to get her out of the pen, otherwise whe will come with me to the point of the gate with no problem, but if I don't have a line there to put on her or hold onto the coller she will go back and start to work again. I can down her and get a hold of her, but I don't want to be forever "leading" her off the field. Any advice on this situation. If I do put her on a line to take her off there is no struggle or resistance she comes quietly, but it is because she knows that there is no way else. Do you think that she will eventually get the idea that when we go off the field not to keep working if I keep walking her off?

 

Carol writes:

 

Congrats on your successes!

 

Yes—if you are persistant she will eventually give up running back to the sheep. You need to be consistant and make sure she never gets to work them if she does run back.

 

I would also try teaching her this concept from a new angle.

 

Put the line on her. Be near the sheep. Ask her to lie down. You walk a few steps away from her and away from the sheep toward the gate (but not all the way to the gate). Do not let her come along. Keep her down there til you call her to you once you are part way to the gate. Once she is to you, lie her down again and take a few more steps leaving her there to wait on your next command. Repeat this in small sequences til you reach the gate. You can do this all over the field as well!

 

Also, try doing this BEFORE you start working her. Let her learn that you will not let her work the sheep at all unless she will show you she can come off the sheep and out the gate first! Then do your training session. Then slowly start this exercise with her off the line. Remember—you are trying to teach her that she is not allowed to work unless she will come off the sheep.

 

I have done this with a student and her dog with great success. Her dog would go into orbit and do these BIG outruns when she was commanded to stop working. The dog just got wider and wider and so got away with it because the only way to get the dog's attention & engage it was to flank it and walk it up. But by doing this—the dog won. So we started doing just what I am recommending to you and it worked great.

 

Again, it takes a little time. You need to break down her old sequence & pattern.

 

I am guessing you maybe inherited this problem???

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Guest Carol Campion

Kim writes:

 

I've been having to put her on a line to get her out of the pen, otherwise whe will come with me to the point of the gate with no problem, but if I don't have a line there to put on her or hold onto the coller she will go back and start to work again. I can down her and get a hold of her, but I don't want to be forever "leading" her off the field. Any advice on this situation. If I do put her on a line to take her off there is no struggle or resistance she comes quietly, but it is because she knows that there is no way else. Do you think that she will eventually get the idea that when we go off the field not to keep working if I keep walking her off?

 

Carol writes:

 

Congrats on your successes!

 

Yes—if you are persistant she will eventually give up running back to the sheep. You need to be consistant and make sure she never gets to work them if she does run back.

 

I would also try teaching her this concept from a new angle.

 

Put the line on her. Be near the sheep. Ask her to lie down. You walk a few steps away from her and away from the sheep toward the gate (but not all the way to the gate). Do not let her come along. Keep her down there til you call her to you once you are part way to the gate. Once she is to you, lie her down again and take a few more steps leaving her there to wait on your next command. Repeat this in small sequences til you reach the gate. You can do this all over the field as well!

 

Also, try doing this BEFORE you start working her. Let her learn that you will not let her work the sheep at all unless she will show you she can come off the sheep and out the gate first! Then do your training session. Then slowly start this exercise with her off the line. Remember—you are trying to teach her that she is not allowed to work unless she will come off the sheep.

 

I have done this with a student and her dog with great success. Her dog would go into orbit and do these BIG outruns when she was commanded to stop working. The dog just got wider and wider and so got away with it because the only way to get the dog's attention & engage it was to flank it and walk it up. But by doing this—the dog won. So we started doing just what I am recommending to you and it worked great.

 

Again, it takes a little time. You need to break down her old sequence & pattern.

 

I am guessing you maybe inherited this problem???

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Guest Carol Campion

Hi all

 

Sorry for the triple post of repititin! I was trying to add something to what I already wrote and it kept repeating the same post. I guess you can't do it that way. You need to start from scratch.

 

Anyway—Kim, on that line thing...if you do the steps to call her gradually off the field, just barely hold the very tip of the line so she doesn't know you have it. Then you can prevent her from working if she takes off on you. At some point you will have to go cold turkey and not hold it and eventually not have it at all. But I would go from holding the tip lightly to not holding it but letting it drag to not having it on at all.

 

Don't graduate from one level to the next unless she is 100% or close to it.

 

Oh, by the way—just about every keen dog thats worth its weight will try the same at some point in its early training!!!

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Guest aurdank

I might add that the problem you describe is common among keen, young dogs; so in a way the dog's reluctance to quit is a very positive sign. I have done the following in this situation: I have the dog bring the sheep toward the gate; flank the dog around so its body is closer to the gate than are the sheep. I stand between the dog and the sheep though a bit off to the side. The dog can see my presence as potentialy blocking her from the sheep, though she also has a clear view of the sheep. I say, "that'll do, come." If she hesitates, I'll step toward the center and repeat; she then chooses to come to me instead of the sheep. If you stand behind her and call her off, she'll choose the sheep. So positioning is important. I walk to the gate with her, continuing to say "that'll do" until we pass through it. Eventually, she gets the idea. But I always carry a short double end clipped leash that I attach to the loops of my jeans, even at a trial; and when I walk off after my run, I'll say "that'll do, come" and put the leash on as we walk off. No harm in using your leash ever.

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