Bob Son of Battle

[Ooky]

A neighbor ran out tonight and brought me a book because he said he likes watching me train Odin. It's called Bob Son of Battle by Alfred Ollivant, and appears to be about border collies before there was such a name (??) What is so weird is that the book itself is from 1898 so I am really nervous to even have it in my possession (my DH collects rare books so I understand the importance of such an old book). It feels fragile - if it is really worth reading I think I will get a newer copy to save the binding on this one, but I thought I would ask here if anyone knew it.

 

He's a nice neighbor - his dog Jaia taught Odin some better dog-dog manners as a puppy, to Odin's benefit.

[Eileen Stein]

You can actually try reading it online here. It is a good old book. It was made into a movie at least once -- not very faithfully, as I recall, but others will remember better.

[Alchemist]

This was one of my favorite books growing up as an animal-crazy kid. I recently discovered a copy at my in-law's summer place.

 

It's been suggested that Bob was a Welsh sheep dog, and not a Border collie: see http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museum/Perm...shSheepDog.html

 

- Lynn

[Ooky]

Thanks so much for the link, Eileen! That is perfect!

 

And thanks to alchemist for the great info on Welsh Sheepdogs. Interestingly, the picture on the cover of this book, which again is from what I think is the first US edition (1898), looks much more like a border collie or even a rough collie - there is no bearding whatsoever. Although, that probably doesn't mean much and is likely just the publisher's idea of what a sheepdog looks like. Even if they aren't border collies at all, it will be neat to read about the old trials and stuff, as fiction.

[sea4th]

That was one of my favorite dog books growing up. I have an old copy of Bob, Son of Battle, not as old as yours, but the frontis piece in that book has a picture of Bob, sitting on the steps of his home, and he is gray and has some bearding.

 

The only movie I saw based on the book was made shortly after the WWII, I believe, and as few movies follow books faithfully, this one was no different, but what made it interesting, more so after I got into border collies, was the footage of actual trials from that time period.

 

I also believe that the story takes place in the North country of England, around Cumbria, where this years International (where I was supposed to be but won't be now ) will be held.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

The dialect and much of the culture places the book squarely in the "Border" area of the UK. Since the characters clearly identified themselves as English as opposed to the Scottish antagonist, it's almost certainly located on the English side of the border.

 

Sheepdogs of that area were already becoming internationally known as the gold standard of breeding. It is highly unlikely that the Grey Dogs were Welsh. Instead, like many dilute or Merle lines they were fast dying out due to founder effect. The genetics were still there, but the dogs simply weren't grey anymore.

 

The Tailess Tyke was a cur mastiff type commonly used in droving. There are several more sheepdog style described that are all interesting records of probably the last real appearance of many of these types as distinct lines.

 

One intersting thing to note about the story is the range of characters described as being sheepdog handlers. Not all of them were farmers or shepherds. And they were all described as being working dogs or retired.

 

Upon researching this, it seems that instead of being the tool of the farmer and the shepherd exclusively, the Border Collie was developed by people who considered the sheepdog an inseperable part of keeping sheep. Most people in that area kept sheep no matter what their profession. So most had dogs. It's an interesting line of thought.

[nancy]

I know I read the book. My best friend got me to read all the dog and horse stories.

 

Is this another of the ones where the poor animal suffers horrible stuff until theirs a happy end or the kind where even the end is awful? I don't remember any that didn't have lots of awful stuff.

 

By the way, this friend has had pets since she started working at 16 and could support them. She now has several rescue horses. And she still reads all those stories.

[mbc1963]

I have two copies in my "treasured old book" collection. Didn't read it til adulthood, but loved it, and grabbed another copy when I found one.

 

In case you ever want to find a reading copy of a book that's too old to read (gasp!), you can find 'em here:

 

addall.com

 

There was a reprint maybe 15 or 20 years ago - that's when I read it. It might even be still in print.

 

Mary

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I forgot to say that reading this book when I was a kid solidified my inent to gave a farm and working dogs some day. Only I thought the dogs in that book were lassie collies until many years later.

[FlyByNight]

I read it as a kid as well, loved the book.

 

I also really loved the Albert Payson Terhune book, The Heart of a Dog. He wrote a bunch of stories about lassie collies, before there was lassie.

[JohnLloydJones]

The dialect and much of the culture places the book squarely in the "Border" area of the UK.

According to this article that would be specifically Cumbria (an old name for a new county carved out since I was at school).

[Little Bo Boop]

My favorite book growing up ;-) Loved it. I even named my dog Bob ;-) This is one of my most treasured possessions. Got it on Ebay for $16 ;-) I was prepared to shoot the moon LOL its an original. I also have the VHS of this movie, and its acutually quite good. Some pretty neat 'trial' footage, although Bob looks more like a GSD ;-) but its worth watching.

 

 

[sea4th]

although Bob looks more like a GSD ;-)

 

Look at it this way. It could have been, yet one more time, Lassie. Not that I have anything against Lassie, but ...

[Ooky]

Ha ha! Love that poster!

 

You guys have piqued my interest quite a lot. I missed this one during my Jack London-Black Beauty years.

[Jo&Tex]

I am the proud possessor of a first edition Bob, son of battle. I found it in a box of books that had been donated to my adult literacy classroom. Maybe watching me freak over an old book gave my students and idea that books could be precious treasures.

My Bob book is almost unhandleable now due to age. I'd love to track down a more readable copy.

[sea4th]

I also really loved the Albert Payson Terhune book, The Heart of a Dog. He wrote a bunch of stories about lassie collies, before there was lassie.

 

If you don't mind, I'll just hijack the Bob, Son of Battle thread just a bit.

 

I loved the Lad a Dog books. In 5th & 6th grade, I devoured them. It was at a time my parents went through a divorce and my dog, a gsd was rehomed, and so I threw myself into APT's books and Lad, although he had died long before, was as real to me as though he were right by my side.

 

When I had an assignment in 6th grade to write to our favorite author, for me, it was hands down, APT. I was crushed when a letter from the estate came back saying the he had died years before.

 

So growing up, I left Lad a Dog and Sunnybank behind until a couple of years ago, when I was on the way home from Manhattan and I don't know why, but I made a split second decision to detour to the Ramapo Mts. in NJ and find Sunnybank.

 

And I found it. The old house was gone. It was razed in 1969. The grounds are now a county-owned park, but also a memorial to APT, Sunnybank and all of it's residents made famous in the author's books. The "fire blue" lake was there, but the fire blue part was a memory. Modern day debris dotted the shoreline, a sad statement and one I'm sure that the author, if he saw his beloved lake and land in that state, would be saddened and furious.

 

Lad's grave is set separate from the the rest of the dogs'. I sat by his grave and all of these emotions just welled up in me and I cried, for the little kid who loved dogs all of those years ago and for a very real collie, who lived and died 100 yrs. ago.

 

A trip of curiousity turned into almost a pilgrimage for me. I spent 2 hours there taking photos of every angle and this winter, on one of those cold blustery days, I'll match my own photos with the ones I found on-line of Sunnybank in it's heyday.

 

 

 

 

[ThunderHill]

Apologies for contributing to the Terhune hijack... but wow. That has sure resurrected memories from days gone by. I'll have to make a visit to ABE (www.abebooks.com) next time I'm in funds and check for affordable pre-owned copies. I'd like to read those as an adult. I remember in my youth (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth) I read "Lad, A Dog," and the one about the "throwback" pup ("Wolf?") which made me weep terribly at the end. I don't think I ever realized there was a real person and a real place involved -- at that age I didn't read front and end matter, only the main story.

 

Thanks for bringing back the memories, and for the description and lovely visuals of a place I didn't know ever existed in the real world. (Even if it's mostly gone now.)

 

Liz S

[PennyT]

Ardmore Radclyffe Dugmore, according to the publishers, went to Great Britain and photographed one or more of the actual dogs. This supposedly took a year or two. Because of weather conditions on the first trip, a second voyage was needed.

 

Whether this was hype is anyone's guess. Dugmore was also an AKC judge and bigwig.

 

Penny

[geonni banner]

Thanks so much for the link, Eileen! That is perfect!

 

And thanks to alchemist for the great info on Welsh Sheepdogs. Interestingly, the picture on the cover of this book, which again is from what I think is the first US edition (1898), looks much more like a border collie or even a rough collie - there is no bearding whatsoever. Although, that probably doesn't mean much and is likely just the publisher's idea of what a sheepdog looks like. Even if they aren't border collies at all, it will be neat to read about the old trials and stuff, as fiction.

 

Here's a scan of the cover of my ed.