Obsessive Pacing

[Boondoggle]

Hi all,

I'm a new member searching for some answers about obsessive pacing. We adopted Emma, a one year old BC about 4 months ago from a local shelter. We don't know much about her history except that we are the 4th home she has seen in a very short period of time. She spent a few weeks at the animal shelter on two different occations between various homes.

 

Right away when we brought her home I noticed she picked out a path in the back yard and started pacing it. It took about 3 hours before she started to wear down the grass, never deviating. If allowed she would do this for hours and hours, although could be distracted from it as long as you were right there. My first action was to get her into obedience class and agility. In addition she plays for hours with my other BC and we do serious dog park or hiking daily. Although this helped her sleep through the night (thank the heavens) it only cut down the pacing a little. She could be totally wiped from our activities that day and still come back and got right into that OCD like, looking at the sky, pacing the line behavior.

 

The advice I've recieved so far had been wide spread, including she needs to be medicated to get her to a level that she can re-learn behaviors, to there is no hope unless we sell our house and move to a 100 acre lot with sheep, to she seems happy doing this and I should find a place that's it's ok for her to go for it.

 

The problem had been getting better (a little) with lots of excersize and training. Now we have an additional issue in that she recently was very sick, requiring exploratory surgery to look for a blockage. They found nothing and she is getting better on antibiotics, but still has stitches and requires as much bed rest as you can possibly give a 1 year old BC (Not much!). It seems like all of our progress might be in danger now that she can't go to the park and the second I let her out to pee it's off to the path.

 

I would love to hear any advice or experiences with this! Thanks

[Sue R]

There are a few people on here with dogs with obsessive/compulsive behaviors like this, and I expect they will give you some very good advice.

 

My personal feeling, which is totally uneducated about matters like this, is that as long as you are providing good mental and physical stimulation (the activities you are doing sound great) and this behavior is not damaging or destructive, I would not worry about it. Over time, it might possibly reduce as these other activities become more and more the focus of her interest, I would hope. You have not had her very long and overcoming an ingrained habit (and I'm sure she had it before she came to you) may take a great deal of time, patience, and understanding.

 

Moving to "100 acre lot with sheep" is not the answer to anything, in my opinion. If your dog has the instincts and talents to be a useful stockdog, you and she might find a farm with livestock chores a life-changing experience and a great deal of personal fulfillment. That answer sounds like a stock answer from someone who assumes all Border Collies (bred for it or not) will only find "contentment" in stock work. Many have not been bred for stockworking instincts for generations (which is another topic and bad breeding). They, along with some nicely-bred dogs that just lack the genes to be interested in and talented with stock, may have no more usefulness with livestock than your average mutt.

 

As for pacing when you let her out to urinate, how about pottying her on leash for the time being, while her activity level must be minimized?

 

Best wishes, and I'm sure you will get some good advice here!

 

ACK! Where are my manners? Welcome!

[juliepoudrier]

Welcome Boondoggle. Sure had made some good points, so I am going to tack my answers on to hers.

 

There are a few people on here with dogs with obsessive/compulsive behaviors like this, and I expect they will give you some very good advice.

 

I would be one of those.

 

My personal feeling, which is totally uneducated about matters like this, is that as long as you are providing good mental and physical stimulation (the activities you are doing sound great) and this behavior is not damaging or destructive, I would not worry about it. Over time, it might possibly reduce as these other activities become more and more the focus of her interest, I would hope. You have not had her very long and overcoming an ingrained habit (and I'm sure she had it before she came to you) may take a great deal of time, patience, and understanding.

 

What Sue says here is true. I have on obsessive circler. He came to me that way at about 18 months old (he turns 9 this month). When I first got him, I spent a lot of time redirecting his behavior by interacting directly with him, but I quickly found out that if my attention was diverted, even for just the few seconds it took to walk a couple of feet to pick up a ball, the cricling would start again (his OCD arose from being left alone in a yard with little/no human interaction after his owner died. The owner's widow did not recognize the behavior for what it was, and by the time she managed--through our mutual vet--to get some sucker to take him, the behavior was ingrained.)

 

A couple of interesting things about Farleigh. If he's at, say, a friend's house and I'm not there, he will settle down and stop circling. Even at my own house, he will stop and take a break and lie on the porch or wherever (but he does spend most of his time running circles). Excitement exacerbates the behavior. Correction does nothing but stop the behavior momentarily. If I tie him out, he doesn't circle, but that's not exactly how I want to keep a dog. If I let him drag a line, he doesn't circle, at least for a while, until he figures out that he *can* circle while dragging the line. In the end, I decided that the circling was causing no more harm than wearing a path in the yard. I still don't like it, but considering it's nondestructive nature (except for the path he wears in the grass, but it's not harming *him* or destroying personal property, for example), I decided that it was a battle I didn't need to fight and I could live with it.

 

I did not try a behaviorist and behavior modification aided by drug therapy. My vet did prescribe drugs like Clomicalm, but for unrelated obsessive issues (at least what we feared was obsessive--turned out to be allergy related), and it never had an effect on his circling. If you go with drug therapy, and it can be a Godsend, you must be prepared to spend a lot of time working on behavior modification as well (that is, drug therapy alone will not cure the problem). At least one board member has been successful using a combination of drug therapy and behavior modification, but she wasn't treating for obsessive behavior as far as I know.

 

Moving to "100 acre lot with sheep" is not the answer to anything, in my opinion. If your dog has the instincts and talents to be a useful stockdog, you and she might find a farm with livestock chores a life-changing experience and a great deal of personal fulfillment. That answer sounds like a stock answer from someone who assumes all Border Collies (bred for it or not) will only find "contentment" in stock work. Many have not been bred for stockworking instincts for generations (which is another topic and bad breeding). They, along with some nicely-bred dogs that just lack the genes to be interested in and talented with stock, may have no more usefulness with livestock than your average mutt.

 

Truer words have not been spoken. Nothing is more aggravating than seeing dogs being given up with the excuse "he needs a farm and room to run" or "I'm sure exposure to sheep and stockwork would cure all his ills" (often said of dogs with aggression issues). My OCD dog comes from excellent herding stock, but his breeding was one-off (that is, his sire and dam came from a good breeder of working dogs, but *his* breeder was, I suspect, a BYB). At any rate, my acquiring him was the reason that I tried stockwork (not as a "treatment" for OCD, but because his pedigree suggested he might). He has some natural talent but no interest in working with a human, which is a necessary component for a good stockdog. So don't make the mistake of thinking that working livestock will cure obsessive ills. The fact is, I suspect that if I had wanted to put a lot of effort into working Farleigh, I could have made him into a reasonable stockdog (enough to do chores anyway), but I think he'd still be circling in his "off" time.

 

As for pacing when you let her out to urinate, how about pottying her on leash for the time being, while her activity level must be minimized?

 

I agree with Sue's solution here, or just let her out, watch her till she goes and call her right back in. That may or may not work in the long run. Farleigh also circles in the house (when he's excited over something like breakfast being served or the one cat he has some weird play fantasy about), so leaving her outside for minimal amounts of time may or may not stop the behavior, or she could transfer it inside if it's truly ingrained. In case I wasn't clear, what I meant was that Farleigh circles in the house only occasionally, but he will do it, so limiting time alone outside might not stop a behavior--it might just be transferred inside.

 

And I know I've sounded very negative here. It's possible that once she really settles into your home as her forever home and gets used to a really active routine that her obsessive pacing behavior will subside somewhat. But the way I understand those behaviors is that they are self-rewarding (kind of like a runner getting a "high") and so once they start it's virtually impossible to stop them without some sort of concerted intervention methods.

 

But anyway, I'm here to say that a dog with an "uncurable" obsessive behvior can live a normal (relatively speaking since OCD isn't normal) and happy life. You must decide what you can live with and if the pacing really bothers you, then I would suggest finding a board certified animal behaviorist to work with you to try to change the behavior.

 

Good luck!

 

 

J.

[MaggieDog]

This sounds a lot like a stereotyped behavior from lack of stimulation/stress during a key developmental period. The thing about stereotypies is that even when the animal is removed from the situation that caused them, they'll still occur, sometimes with a decrease in frequency, sometimes not, but they generally never go away regardless of how enriched a life the animal may have. Like has been said above, management can only do so much and if the animal isn't being harmed by the activity, it may be fine to let them continue it.

 

I would suggest a vet behaviorist consult as OCD type behaviors can often be treated with meds and it always helps to understand what's behind such abnormal behavior imo.

 

Here's an interesting (tho very technical) article that does cover the treatment protocols for sterotyped/compulsive behaviors: Article

[laurie etc]

Hi all,

 

Right away when we brought her home I noticed she picked out a path in the back yard and started pacing it. It took about 3 hours before she started to wear down the grass, never deviating. If allowed she would do this for hours and hours, although could be distracted from it as long as you were right there. My first action was to get her into obedience class and agility. In addition she plays for hours with my other BC and we do serious dog park or hiking daily. Although this helped her sleep through the night (thank the heavens) it only cut down the pacing a little. She could be totally wiped from our activities that day and still come back and got right into that OCD like, looking at the sky, pacing the line behavior.

 

The problem had been getting better (a little) with lots of excersize and training. Now we have an additional issue in that she recently was very sick, requiring exploratory surgery to look for a blockage. They found nothing and she is getting better on antibiotics, but still has stitches and requires as much bed rest as you can possibly give a 1 year old BC (Not much!). It seems like all of our progress might be in danger now that she can't go to the park and the second I let her out to pee it's off to the path.

 

I would love to hear any advice or experiences with this! Thanks

 

Haven't had a Border Collie who did the obsessive pacing, but years ago my daughter had a sheltie who did. She could go for hours in the yard, running her "pattern", regardless of where the other dogs were or what they were doing. It seemed innocent enough at the time, but I can tell you that we ended up with permanent deep ruts in the yard; and although Poppy lived to the ripe old age of 17, she was a gnarled mass of arthritis from all the self-induced repetitive trauma she incurred. Poppy was a rescue from a MO puppy mill - an impulse pet shop purchase, and then dumped at a groomer's at 6 months old. She had other fear issues that precluded her from becoming much other than the most loyal little dog any kid could want. But my point is, she did not have any physical reason for deteriorating so badly, other than the years of pacing. We actually thought it was amusing, except on rainy days when she would come in the house covered in mud from head to toe. This was back before the days of veterinary behaviorists and prescribed medications for such issues. If I were to get another dog like this, I would definitely seek a veterinary behaviorist's counsel and see if the OCD behavior could be helped before it becomes a life-long problem.

 

Oh, and your idea about obedience and agility training is awesome. The more structured exercise and "brainwork" you can do with her, the better. Laurie

[Bo Peep]

My first rescue was a pacer. I had purchased my beloved Miss Lacey and wanted to see who her father was. A beautiful split faced male. He was kept in a kennel since he was a pup. They told me they hated him. "All he does is pace in his kennel, so we cut it in 1/2" That meant 3 feet of room for 3 years. No wonder he paced. He didn't have anything to do! I quickly bought him for a mere $50.00 just to get him out of there-papers and all. He never paced with me. Even at night when he stayed in a kennel, he didn't pace. He worked sheep, was in frisbee trials-even made it to the finals. Paid me back everyday with his smile and a wag of his tail until he died at 17.

 

Usher paced my hallway- due to me being stupid and having a laser light. I tossed it out when he was 3 months old, yet he didn't forget. Moving cured that. He no longer paces. I think pacing is a signal of boredom. Give them something to do that they enjoy. Not every border collie ends up on a 100 acre farm. A lot of the people on the board live in apartments or small homes in the city. But they find things to do with their dogs that they both enjoy. An active border collie is a happy border collie.

[painted_ponies]

I don't have any advice, other than walking her on lead. I just thought I'd chime in to sympathize with you.

 

One of my Violet's OCD behaviors is picking out one other dog in the household to "work." Which is a behavior one has to stop for the sake of the work-ee (who becomes understandably annoyed by being stared at, shoved around, and/or gripped) and the work-er (who will also understandably wind up with a pierced nose if allowed to continue being annoying).

 

Her other OCD behavior is nipping the feet of her owner's DH. She did this to my friend Brenda's husband when she lived with them, and she does it to my (luckily good-natured and patient) DH.

 

Teaching her what "that'll do" means has helped some, but as Julie said only momentarily stops the behavior. But Violet is, on the whole, a happy healthy dog and we adore our little headcase.

 

Oh, BTW, I do live on a farm and Vi and I train on sheep once a week, and she's still a nutjob. I highly recommend it though. It won't cure her but it sure is fun. Here's a picture of me and Vi after a training session. See how happy?

 

Welcome to the boards!

[Boondoggle]

Thank you all for your advice! Reading these is helping me confirm something I was already suspecting in that BC's are weired dogs and that's part of what makes us love them. My other BC is obsessive in her own way but she chooses the frisbee to get focused on. I think in my mind this was a more "acceptable" or "normal" obsession, so it never bothered me. With Emma, I would feel like a failure if I could not get her tired enouph to stop the behavior and it causes me great stress. I'm trying to examine how much of a problem this behavior really is.

 

Positive Aspects:

I almost never have to cut her nails

She is some what self excersizing

She does seem really happy while doing it

She does not seem to be hurting herself or loosing weight

 

Negative Aspects:

Is probably a behavior developed to cope with a bad situation and is not 'normal'

She might be affected physically if it goes on or escalates

It drives us nuts (gingling dog tags, tap tap tap of little feet constantly)

She is killing the yard

 

When laid out like this I guess I'm not sure if we really have a big problem with the exception of course of her doing physical damage to herself. I would like to re-direct her to another more 'positive' behavior such as frisbee or balls that could be done every day but have not had much luck. She can jump 6 feet in the air with out flexing but has no interest in catching anything while doing it. We have looked for a place to go and test her on sheep but there is none close by. We could do it but it's not a viable activity to do on a regular basis. Unfortunately agility is a once or twice a week activity also do to our small yard and lack of equiptment.

 

Does any one have any other ideas for either getting interested in frisbee/balls or another activity?

 

Thanks so much!

[vickim]

How about a high jump? You can make those out of PVC pipe, it's light and if you make it right, it will easily collapse if she accidently hits it.

[Miztiki]

I rescued Fynne from a little subdivision yard where she had made a perfect figure "8" path that she would mindlessly pace for hours and hours. We had a 3 acre yard though, and she never paced it, though for a while she did continue with some other OCD behaviors out in the yard and elsewhere. Those have all subsided over the years though.

 

Pacing is the equivalent of a human biting their nails down to the nub. It's not exactly mentally healthy and IMO, I would try to prevent her from doing it. After not doing it for so long, it's quite possible she will forget this habit and not do it anymore, just like someone who stops biting their nails for a long enough period will get over it, particularly since you are giving Emma the physical and mental stimulation that she needs so that she no longer has the psychological need to pace. It's just a habit now (and not an outlet) that can be broken if you want to break her from it.

 

She could revert to pacing if a time comes when she's stressed or bored but you could always redirect her into other behaviors that are more acceptable for you. It should be easy to do so once she's broken the pacing habit.

 

Thanks for giving this girl such a wonderful life!

 

Miz