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How to teach your dog to hold things (for fetch and other fun tricks)


Betsy
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I'm trying to teach my 7-month old pup to hold an object in his mouth. I'm using a clicker and it is likely my fault due to my timing being off with the clicker at times (I'm new to clicker training).

 

If I use a toy, he grabs it from me and tries to turn away with it, or drops it immediately. If it's a non-toy object he won't even open his mouth if I hold it out to him, thinking he's not supposed to have it. For a non-toy object I can start with it on the ground and click for interest, upping the criteria until he's mouthing it, but even if I can get him to pick it up, he drops it immediately, or starts chewing on it. If I try to keep it in his mouth longer by holding it there he backs up to get away.

 

I'm thinking I need to back up a step or a few, or start over completely, but am at a loss. Any help?

 

I want to teach "hold" in order to teach other things such as putting his toys away, and fetch. Right now he'll fetch but will only bring it back about 3/4th of the way then drops it and keeps coming towards me. If I ignore him, hoping he'll figure it out on his own that he has to bring it all the way in order for me to throw it again, he will eventually just give up and go find something else to do.

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'Hold' is a hard concept for a dog to understand. I teach it by teaching him the object must be put into my hand and then delaying the presentation of my hand or making my hand difficult to get to.

 

I like to teach a formal retrieve to all my dogs just because its a handy skill and super nice when I drop something. I use a Shirley Chong's clicker dumbbell retrieve steps, if I don't have a dumbbell I choose a dumbbell like object. I like her steps as they are very clearly lined out.

 

http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/retrieve.html

 

The first steps take a little time, but once it starts happening it goes fast. Once my dog gets it with a retrieve object I can start substituting similar shaped things, and then eventually move on.

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I use a series of connected steps with their own commands. Over time the steps naturally fall away.

 

I use "get", "bring", "give" and "put".

 

"Get" and "bring" start themselves through natural inclination. The "give" bridges the gap where dogs will drop the object halfway there, etc. I found that using the "bring" helps them understand the "give" better. They know, eventually, that a "bring" is a bridge command and I will tell them what to do next.

 

I train each one separately and add them together slowly.

 

Works for me like a charm.

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I was going to link Shirley Chong's retrieve. It's very good step by step.

 

One trick that helped with my weird dog was teaching her to put a object in a box at first. She was turning her head and spitting the object out. I placed a box next to her and she'd spit the object to the side. When it hit the bottom of the box, I clicked and treated. Gradually I moved the box away so she'd have to take a few steps for the object to fall in the box, then moved it around to different locations so she was having to look for the box before spitting. Now I can direct her to all her toys and various things and have her put them in the box (wherever I've put the box)

 

It didn't work on bring to hand but now she has decided that when presented with a object that holding it in her mouth/biting it is the correct response. She grasped bite very fast but not holding.

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Here's a video showing how to back chain a retrieve:

 

Am I understanding that you're trying to get the dog to interact with an object from the floor? That's a pretty advanced behaviour all told. Back chaining is a great method to teach a retrieve, where you teach the last step first - the retrieve to hand. So the starting point is interacting with the object while it's in your hand.

 

On top of the formal shaping/back chaining, I like to do rapidfire rehearsals of similar behaviour to help bridge some gaps in the dog's understanding. For a retrieve I might play with a toy with lots of take its/drops (every 1-2 seconds -- quick!) before quickly shifting to another object. Hopefully the dog's brain will still be set on "put in mouth" from the play before and you can capitalize on it.

 

Once you get a small amount of duration (this is after the dog is able to retrieve a dead object from the floor) you can start adding time via reverse luring. Here's a video:

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Here's a video showing how to back chain a retrieve:

 

I was using that video as my basis. But I couldn't get him to interact with an object (non-toy) from my hand, he would just turn his head and look away) so I put it on the floor to see what he would do there. He did have interest in it on the floor, so I shaped him into picking it up, but he would just drop it immediately, or start to lay down and chew on a corner (he still chews a lot as he's still a puppy), so obviously I didn't eliminate the chewing behavior and probably moved too fast in that respect. I like the instructions (http://www.shirleych...s/retrieve.html) rushdoggie gave and am going to try that.

 

But first I need to find a dumbbell. I looked on the websites all the local B&M pet supply stores but didn't see any on their websites. Where I can find one locally?

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I also wanted to add that this is the dog I posted out previously (it's been a few weeks) that is NOT motivated to please. He is super SUPER stubborn. I have yet to find any treat or food that is very motivating to him. He wants to do what he wants to do when he wants to do it, and it has been incredibly frustrating to teach him much of anything. I'm not blaming this so much on him as on me, as I just don't have much of a clue of how to work with an unbiddable, hard-headed dog who is so different from my first "I'll-do-anything-you-want-just-tell-me-what-it-is-and-I'll-do-it" border collie

 

And yes, I am reading the pigs-fly and the Control Unleashed books. :D

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I was using that video as my basis. But I couldn't get him to interact with an object (non-toy) from my hand, he would just turn his head and look away) so I put it on the floor to see what he would do there. He did have interest in it on the floor, so I shaped him into picking it up, but he would just drop it immediately, or start to lay down and chew on a corner (he still chews a lot as he's still a puppy), so obviously I didn't eliminate the chewing behavior and probably moved too fast in that respect. I like the instructions (http://www.shirleych...s/retrieve.html) rushdoggie gave and am going to try that.

 

But first I need to find a dumbbell. I looked on the websites all the local B&M pet supply stores but didn't see any on their websites. Where I can find one locally?

 

You should (in theory) be able to start shaping interaction with an object through the orient response. Hide the object behind your back, pull it out and the movement should cause him to orient to it/your hand. Click, treat, put object away and reset. Once you have orientation, you can start baby stepping interaction. Maybe rub something smelly on it to encourage a sniff if you're not having any luck any other way.

 

It's important that you remove the object when you're not working on the behaviour, or if he's just sitting there. Leaving it out for 5+ seconds at a time is likely going to work against you.

 

If you feel like it, try taking a video of one of your training sessions. Post here if you like, or just rewatch it yourself. You're likely going to see lots that you didn't notice while actually training. Maybe your timing is poor. Maybe you're working too long. Maybe you're putting too much pressure on him. Maybe he's just not in the mood. Maybe you're lumping too much.

 

Denise Fenzi had a great series on her blog about teaching a retrieve a little while ago. Here's one of her posts: http://denisefenzi.com/2012/09/04/training-a-shaped-retrieve/

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I was using that video as my basis. But I couldn't get him to interact with an object (non-toy) from my hand, he would just turn his head and look away) so I put it on the floor to see what he would do there. He did have interest in it on the floor, so I shaped him into picking it up, but he would just drop it immediately, or start to lay down and chew on a corner (he still chews a lot as he's still a puppy), so obviously I didn't eliminate the chewing behavior and probably moved too fast in that respect. I like the instructions (http://www.shirleych...s/retrieve.html) rushdoggie gave and am going to try that.

 

But first I need to find a dumbbell. I looked on the websites all the local B&M pet supply stores but didn't see any on their websites. Where I can find one locally?

 

You don't need a dumbbell. She says early on she uses the word dumbbell throughout to make it easy to follow but you can use any object.

 

I would choose a firm, wooden or plastic item that is appropriate to be picked up. I taught one dog using a 6" long piece of 1" dowel.

 

I hadn't seen those Fenzi videos and they are also very good.

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Can we back up even more? I don't know for sure that he understands he is supposed to be offering different behaviors. This is the first true shaping I've done outside of the initial shaping exercises in the When Pigs Fly book. I think he knows he is supposed to interact with whatever I present to him, but sometimes (not all the time, but sometimes) I think he is interacting because he wants whatever it is, not because he will be given a treat for it. So maybe the treat is not a high enough value? The object has a higher value than the treat?

 

 

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If you're not sure if he understands shaping, it may be a good idea to start out on something more simple and silly. 101 Things To Do With A Box is probably a good game. Also, make sure your shaping sessions are fun and action-packed. I noticed with a great deal of my students, they would get silent and somber when shaping, so all but the most resilient dogs were deflating under the pressure and stress.

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I will actually gently disagree that 101 things to do with a box is a good exercise for a beginning shaper (human or dog). I prefer a concrete step by step simple interaction with an object that the human has a clear picture of as it helps teh human end be more confident on what they are clicking.

 

I prefer something like targeting a lid, of run to a mat and lay down.

 

YMMV.

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Tess was born with an inbuilt retriever "thing", so not much help here. She brings back stuff and gives it in my hand from day one, she picks things from the floor and gives them to me since about 5 mo. A big help, i tell you, as my knees are quickly going and not having to bend down for slippers and stuff i drop is a blessing.

 

With my previous dog Sara it was not the same. She also caught up with fetch pretty quickly and would bring me anything, but droped it at my feet instead of delivering in hand, and it was dificult to teach her to pick things up on comand. I didn't have a very thought of method to teach her, I just followed my instinct and tried to be clear. So, of course, it took a long time. But if it's not natural to the dog, it WILL take a long time, I suppose.

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Some dogs do skip right into it, some don't. Its why I like to take the time to teach a structured retrieve because it doesn't matter how much is intuitive.

 

Its not the same as playing fetch, I have found, even if your dog returns ball to hand.

 

Its awesome to have a dog who will pick up any weird thing you ask and hand it to you, and I swear my dogs like it when they "help" me when I drop stuff.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Okay, just a quick update. We did the 101 things to do with a box and he enjoyed that. I used a laundry basket and clicked for all kinds of things, then focused on putting his paws in, which I got him to do reliably (specifically wanted to avoid shaping any behavior that involved mouthing it since I wanted him to understand that click=a behavior; not just click=mouthing)

 

Then we switched back to trying to get him to hold an object. I got it to the point where he would take it from my hand wherever it was, or from the floor and then drop it. But I could never get him to just "hold" it until I asked for something else. So I decided that "holding" objects was not really the end goal I wanted right now, (maybe one day we'll revisit and try again), my goal right now is to retrieve. After much shaping, I have him reliably retrieving objects thrown and placing them in my hand. I can throw all sorts of things and he will retrieve them all - shoes, markers, a ruler, a spice bottle, all his toys, medicine bottle, remote, lotion bottle (that one was a mistake, he punctured it!) Some things he fusses a bit over (my car keys) but will eventually bring them back to my hand after a few attempts and some complaining. :D

 

This all happens in my living room, dining room, kitchen, hallway and bedroom (various spots in each). For the most part, he is reliable, the exception is when I am in the living room and throw the ball down the hallway. On the way back, 90% of the time he will stop and lay down in front of the kitchen doorway. If I wait him out, he will eventually get back up and bring the ball to me. This is probably just due to simple habit - the hallway is where I have always thrown the ball/toy for him ever since we brought him home as it is the only "long" stretch of floor space without furniture, etc. So in order to "keep" the toy away from me he would always stop there.

 

He won't bring anything back outside, and I assume that is because all of the training we have done so far has been inside. This happened this way because evenings are really the only free time I have to focus on his clicker training and initially outside held too many distractions (neighbors, cats, chickens) and now it's starting to get dark earlier so that's limiting me now, but I will have to carve out some outside training time.

 

When we go to the dog park, it's the same thing, he'll chase the ball but won't bring it back. If another dog is retrieving he will chase/herd the dog, nipping and cutting him off. When he gets tired from running, he'll start only running out about 25% of the way and laying down or crouching while waiting for the other dog to bring it back, then spring up and try to intercept him:

 

photo_zps1f1d3cce.jpg

 

He LOVES for me to throw the ball/frisbee, I'm just somewhat stumped that he hasn't caught on that if he brings it back, I throw it again. I didn't have to "teach" this to my first BC, he figured that out at a VERY young age.

 

Even though he does love to chase a thrown ball, he is more motivated by chasing/herding (dogs/animals, and initially children, bikes and cars but we are working hard on curbing that those behaviors) than retrieving so a ball/frisbee dog he may never be.

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