I need advice on this situation with Akitas and our BC

[HJTRAS]

My son has 2 male Akitas Big boys. He likes to bring them over because we have a lot of running room. Ziggy our BC has never been introduced as I was not comfortable with them around her. The Akitas get along fine with Dublin Big boy lab mix and Dezi Rotti mix but we lock Buster the terrier up because he has a death wish.. So Ziggy our BC is not really good with male dogs. Ziggy challenges Dublin all the time and he has bit her a couple times as well as her pissing Dublin off on purpose. So I just am not ready to have these Akita around my BC yet if ever. Ziggy is just very assertive in her moods and I don't even feel she could control herself around these big Akitas. Am I being over protective of Ziggy ? My son says his boys are fine with little aggressive dogs they play fine with a little Chihuahua. But an aggressive tinker bell and Ziggy are totally different personalities.

[Gideon's girl]

That is not a risk I would take. I can understand why an Akita would not think a Chihuahua merritted a response, but would nail a larger dog. And Chihuahua's don't nearly have the power to aggrevate that a BC has when they take a mind to.

[urge to herd]

Would you want to try and pull an Akita off a border collie, or any dog? Then there's the two dog aspect, as in two dogs who live together acting as a team against a single dog.

 

There's also the ongoing stuff between your own dogs, with one dog annoying another on purpose, and all the other dynamics you have described. That adds to the tension.

 

Stick to your guns. No border collie/akita interaction.

 

Ruth and SuperGibbs

[Gloria Atwater]

You are absolutely correct in being protective of Ziggy. Akitas are too big strong a dog to risk trouble and any time you have two dogs like that, if one of them has a conflict with Ziggy, the other dog is nearly certain to jump in and "help" his buddy. I would never in this world risk my border collies around dogs of that size, especially if I knew my border collies weren't the most social.

Stick to your guns indeed. Avoid the tragedy and vet bills.

~ Gloria

[Lizabeth]

I have to agree with you on this one, I would not take the risk myself, 2 Akitas and 1 border collie is not a fair match should things go wrong. Id wait and introduce them slow if I introduced them at all.

[Tommy Coyote]

I wouldn't trust 2 Akitas with anything. They can be really dog aggressive. And they are so powerful you would never be able to pull one off.

[HJTRAS]

Dublin our big boy lab is fine with them. But they did come in and piss on our female rotti's bed. She still is unhappy about that. At this point Ziggy (BC) is way to much for those boys she would piss them off in a blink. At 7 moths she would run circles around them antagonize and steal anything she could from them. I just don't see two akitas being patient with her at all. One of those dogs goes almost 200lbs and he has a little bit of attitude. Sure Ziggy could run circles around him but not yet ready for that. she still gets in Dublins face knowing he has no patience for her.

[Gloria Atwater]

Dublin our big boy lab is fine with them. But they did come in and piss on our female rotti's bed. She still is unhappy about that. At this point Ziggy (BC) is way to much for those boys she would piss them off in a blink. At 7 moths she would run circles around them antagonize and steal anything she could from them. I just don't see two akitas being patient with her at all. One of those dogs goes almost 200lbs and he has a little bit of attitude. Sure Ziggy could run circles around him but not yet ready for that. she still gets in Dublins face knowing he has no patience for her.

 

 

There you have it. Go with your instincts. Two akitas could tear her apart and once the fight started, you could never get those dogs off in time to save her.

 

Avoid tragedy. Keep those dogs away from her. And I'd say keep them out of your house, if they're going to pee in there! Lay down the rules to your friends: you don't owe them the chance to let their dogs screw things up.

 

~ Gloria

[HJTRAS]

I agree Gloria my son is not happy about it but I told him his dogs can come over but not allowed in the house and I cannot let only Dublin hang with them.

[Gloria Atwater]

Good for you! After all, you wouldn't let your son's children pee on the furniture, so why should his dogs?

~ Gloria

[SkunkOnTheFly]

I think some of the comments are a bit sad. The more you socialize any dog the more likely they are to get along with others. If your son's akitas are very friendly dogs...then dont let stereotypical nonsense get in the way. We have a pit bull and are getting our BC puppy tomorrow. My pit has been attacked now NUMEROUS times by other dogs and chose to go back only 2 of those times (she has never stared it). And both of those times, because she is well trained and has been around SO many dogs a simple yell of her name had her stop in her tracks and slink back to me. Yes, the other dog was bit...but they also attacked my dog and my pit COULD have torn them apart but she is overall such a loving dog that she will take a lot before getting snippy back.

 

My pit also LOVES other high-energy dogs, not sure how active akitas are. Not all dogs get along but honestly, its all about how well they are trained when it comes down to avoiding serious injuries.

[Maralynn]

My pit has been attacked now NUMEROUS times by other dogs and chose to go back only 2 of those times (she has never stared it). And both of those times, because she is well trained and has been around SO many dogs a simple yell of her name had her stop in her tracks and slink back to me. Yes, the other dog was bit...but they also attacked my dog and my pit COULD have torn them apart but she is overall such a loving dog that she will take a lot before getting snippy back.

 

 

What type of situations is your Pit in that she keeps getting attacked? I would work pretty hard to keep her away from those in the future - it's totally unfair to keep putting her back in situations where she is getting hurt

[CMP]

Border Collies, in my experience, are the poster dogs for "does not play well with other (breeds)".

 

By the time the puppy was 5 months old all the other dogs (Berners, Scotties, Rotties and hounds) had a look of tortured martrydom whenever she came looking to play.

 

None of them became aggressive to her, but I suspect that without a well managed pack with a very clear leader (me), which I believe I have, harm would have come to some dog at some point. She's relentless.

 

The rotties will now and again play with her. The older BCs are retired working dogs and will sometimes - not quite play with her - but let her play on them and will almost always go for a run about with her but they have limits and when they reach them there is no mistake in communication - they let her know in a way that makes the "she's just a baby!" come out in me. No, I don't interfere unless I feel safe limits are being approached.

 

I have had Akitas - they are very good dogs if they have been well trained - powerful and strong, athletic and tenacious. Like all dogs who were bred originally for fighting (in some fashion) they are also very aggressive - by nature. But in the same way you can't stop a Border Collie from (whatever quirk your BC presents) and being a Border Collie, you can't stop an Akita from being an Akita.

 

Caution would definitely be recommended. Especially if they are infrequently together and are unfamiliar with each other.

[SkunkOnTheFly]

What type of situations is your Pit in that she keeps getting attacked? I would work pretty hard to keep her away from those in the future - it's totally unfair to keep putting her back in situations where she is getting hurt

it can literally be anywhere. one is was at a friends house. she doesnt go there anymore. once she was chained up outside and it was a stray dog. at the dog park twice. but i refuse to not take her to the dog park because of other peoples dogs. the ones that get aggressive get banned. shes a VERY submissive pit..not sure why she gets targeted so much. usually when something breaks out she is the first to roll, belly up and tail between the legs with the 'dont hurt me' look.

[SkunkOnTheFly]

Border Collies, in my experience, are the poster dogs for "does not play well with other (breeds)".

 

By the time the puppy was 5 months old all the other dogs (Berners, Scotties, Rotties and hounds) had a look of tortured martrydom whenever she came looking to play.

 

None of them became aggressive to her, but I suspect that without a well managed pack with a very clear leader (me), which I believe I have, harm would have come to some dog at some point. She's relentless.

 

The older BCs are retired working dogs and will sometimes - not quite play with her - but let her play on them and will almost always go for a run about with her but they have limits and when they reach them there is no mistake in communication - they let her know in a way that makes the "she's just a baby!" come out in me. No, I don't interfere unless I feel safe limits are being approached.

 

I have had Akitas - they are very good dogs if they have been well trained - powerful and strong, athletic and tenacious. Like all dogs who were bred originally for fighting (in some fashion) they are also very aggressive - by nature. But in the same way you can't stop a Border Collie from (whatever quirk your BC presents) and being a Border Collie, you can't stop an Akita from being an Akita.

 

Caution would definitely be recommended. Especially if they are infrequently together and are unfamiliar with each other.

yes, i do agree! i didnt mean 'oh if they fight they fight let them work it out' because that isnt always the case. my pit is great with pups, mothers kitchens, etc. but when puppies are too rough she WILL do that momma snap/growl that says enough is enough. people literally thought i was fighting her because when my black lab/shar pei was a baby she let him tear her up..then as he aged she started putting him in his place and they are INSEPARABLE. they sleep with each other and groom each other daily. i love pits. im a big fan and advocate, but at the same time they DO have a specific nature that, if not trained well, can be lethal. not all pits are as forgiving as mine.

[HJTRAS]

My sons Akitas are just plain intimidating. Our female Rotti mix just submits when they are around and she is a very vocal bitch most of the time. Ziggy our 7 month BC on the other hand never submits but will retreat in caution. Seems like she picks her battles. Example was throwing footballs to the pack Ziggy 25 lb BC and Dublin 135 lb Lab/Golden jumped at the same time for the ball Ziggy hit Dublin so hard he went down and I had to check on him. Ziggy stood over him with the football in her mouth. 15 yards for unsportsman like conduct. So our BC could have a real problem with the Akitas because she will study and challenge at some point.

[SkunkOnTheFly]

aw well then, ya..first and foremost is definitely everyones safety!

[Gloria Atwater]

I think some of the comments are a bit sad. The more you socialize any dog the more likely they are to get along with others. If your son's akitas are very friendly dogs...then dont let stereotypical nonsense get in the way. We have a pit bull and are getting our BC puppy tomorrow. My pit has been attacked now NUMEROUS times by other dogs and chose to go back only 2 of those times (she has never stared it). And both of those times, because she is well trained and has been around SO many dogs a simple yell of her name had her stop in her tracks and slink back to me. Yes, the other dog was bit...but they also attacked my dog and my pit COULD have torn them apart but she is overall such a loving dog that she will take a lot before getting snippy back.

 

My pit also LOVES other high-energy dogs, not sure how active akitas are. Not all dogs get along but honestly, its all about how well they are trained when it comes down to avoiding serious injuries.

 

 

Skunk, I appreciate your sentiment, but did you really read the original post? Here's what he says about his own dog:

 

So Ziggy our BC is not really good with male dogs. Ziggy challenges Dublin all the time and he has bit her a couple times as well as her pissing Dublin off on purpose. So I just am not ready to have these Akita around my BC yet if ever. Ziggy is just very assertive in her moods and I don't even feel she could control herself around these big Akitas.

 

If he knows his own dog to be ill-tempered, dominant and annoying to male dogs, and if he doubts her ability to control herself around dogs three times her size, why in heaven's name would anyone want him to "socialize" his little dog with dogs who are big enough to do serious damage?

 

He knows his own dog. She's already had trouble with one of his own dogs. Some bitches are just ... well, bitchy. I see no point whatsoever in risking her causing trouble with those Akitas - even if they were the nicest dogs on earth. If they lost patience with her bitchiness, if he was unable to interfere in time, he could be looking at a vet bill or worse.

 

I'm sorry to say, but if your pit bull has been attacked several times, I'm not sure I trust your judgement in matters of dog safety. If my dog was attacked once, I'd make darned sure I didn't put him or her in that situation again. If s/he was attacked a second and third time, I'd seriously question my choices and wisdom in regards to where I take my dog and what I allow him/ her to be subjected to.

 

It's our job to protect and defend our dogs from bad situations. NO dog needs to be socialized with every dog out there. It's perfectly okay and even commendable for a dog owner to have the wisdom to say, "This situation does not look good for my dog, therefore I'm not going to risk it." I commend HJTRAS for being proactive and taking a stand.

 

Everyone makes their own judgement calls, but what I found sad was this quote from you:

 

but i refuse to not take her to the dog park because of other peoples dogs. the ones that get aggressive get banned. shes a VERY submissive pit..not sure why she gets targeted so much. usually when something breaks out she is the first to roll, belly up and tail between the legs with the 'dont hurt me' look.

 

You refuse to not take her to the dog park because of other people's dogs? That is exactly why I would refuse to take a dog to the dog park! Would you take your child to the park even though other kids kept bullying and beating up on him? Dogs to NOT need to go to dog parks - especially if aggressive dogs come there. If the aggressive dogs get banned, that's all well and good, but obviously that ban is only happening after someone's dog - apparently often your poor pitty - gets attacked. No matter how well-trained your pit is, obviously she's meeting too many other dogs who aren't trained or socialized worth a damn.

 

If you've just gotten a BC puppy, be forewarned: dog parks are often the worst possible places for border collies, for many, many reasons. I just hope you will be able to bend your refusal if you find your BC freaking out over bad-dog behaviors that your pit is willing to endure.

Cheers ~

 

Gloria

 

 

[CptJack]

First of all, I have a male dog who has a big old 'eat me' sign on his forehead. Why? I dunno. Other dogs he doesn't live with hate his guts. I don't speak dog, but something about him just gets under the skin of other dogs and makes them want him for lunch. He's submissive to MY take on the situation - as in he doesn't fight back, just cries and rolls over when someone charges at him- but my read on the situation doesn't matter. The fact that other dogs react to something about him in an exceptionally aggressive way *does*. That means, being his owner, I am not going to climb on a high horse and let him pay the price for my opinions about who has more right to be in a dog park.

 

Secondly, Border Collies in dog parks. LOL. People seem to have this idea, somehow, that BCs play great with others. No. First of all, there are the goofy, forward, sporting breeds. Seems to grate on a lot of Border Collie's nerves and make them cranky (at least). Then there are the rough, physical players like boxers and pits. Not appreciated by most BCs. Then you have the BCs themselves who respond to a bunch of running animals by wanting to, surprise, control their movement. Do I need to tell you how most dogs respond to a dog staring, slinking, chasing, body slamming, and biting at them? It does not go over well.

 

I have no problem with dog parks in theory, but quite frankly speaking a dog who is targeted doesn't belong in one and it's the rare 'golden retriever in a black and white coat' border collie that does. They do NOT have playstyles that are compatible with other dogs. In the household, many dogs will learn to put up with it and you stop it and things can be okay. Strange dogs? Worst idea in the world.

 

And as a related rant that deserves its own post but I'm too lazy to make: I am getting real sick and tired of hearing about people treating border collies chasing people/cats/other dogs as something that must be nurtured and encouraged, never discouraged.

 

It's prey-drive. You don't let your, I don't know, Jack Russell Terrier chase and bite the crap out of people and say 'But it' s prey-drive, I don't want to stop it, I want to NURTURE IT'. Same crap. There are appropriate outlets. People's pets -including your own - and people aren't the right ones.

[SkunkOnTheFly]

great point on the borders not fitting in well at the dog park. but..if you saw my pit when she DOESNT get to socialize..the depressive funk she gets into you would understand. the difference in her when she is with a large group of dogs versus the same ones daily is astounding. we play with her like crazy, she loves playing with our mix but to see her run into a large group of dogs full speed and just have fun eats at your heart. i couldnt imagine taking that from her. not all dogs will always get along. thats like saying i shouldnt go places because some people are killers, or buttholes who like to start fights. i stopped taking her to my friends the first time. i cant control strays, cant not let her outside...and in almost 4yrs (she will be 4 in march) having only had 2 accidents at the dog park that werent her fault on the many many times we've gone...i cant see punishing her for other peoples' dogs. its a rare occurrence there. though....this giant merle great dane LOVES using my dogs collar to 'walk' her (not being aggressive at all, he does it very calm and gently)...and my dog thinks its a fun game. shes a weird dog.

[SkunkOnTheFly]

and sorry, i realized after when she said how her dog acted and how the akita was. and thats why i said then dont risk it.

[CptJack]

If it's a couple of times in many years, yeah - that's a situation that's a bit different than I got the impression you were describing. It still needs to be watched, obviously, but it's not quite the same thing as an ongoing problem.

 

I let assholes win when it comes to Jack. I don't know why dogs out and about hate his guts, but they do. Even if it were just a few specific dogs whose owners needed to keep them out person.... Him doing anything wrong or not, him being there punishes HIM - not the jerks.

[SkunkOnTheFly]

aww poor jack. thats how i feel about prada. my new neighbors dog doesnt really like her and snapped at her 4 months ago. but since their dog is ALWAYS out there isnt much i can do. so we've come to the 'you both can be out, stay away from each other" and they do pretty well. they can get within a few feet of each other and be fine, they just cant play together. but the husky is also 9 and doesnt have the get go our dogs do.

[Gloria Atwater]

Well there is a large difference between your initial statement:

My pit has been attacked now NUMEROUS times by other dogs

And your present one:

 

.. in almost 4yrs (she will be 4 in march) having only had 2 accidents at the dog park that werent her fault on the many many times we've gone...i cant see punishing her for other peoples' dogs. its a rare occurrence there.

 

You made it sound as if she was having the crap beat out of her at regular basis, which if she were my dog, I'd be looking seriously at making some changes in where I took her and what I allowed to happen. I like my dogs to have friends and fun, too, but I won't take them places where they're going to get attacked and possibly hurt, and I won't leave them places where dogs can reach them to do the attacking.

Glad if it's not really so bad for your girl as it seemed.

~ Gloria

 

[HJTRAS]

I have made up my mind to keep Ziggy on close watch. Dublin has attacked her twice and now she drags him around by his ear. That I have put a stop too. But She is a BC and she plays differently. Getting acclimated to that. But the herding at all costs is a instinct that I try to encourage and control. 7 months old and she knows all the commands the other dogs understand. so we are walking into new territory with her at this point. Her stare pisses the other dogs off. She can get aggressive but in a way that's not violent. she grabs a lot. Trying to break the nipping. At this point I would not take her to a dog park at all. She has a way about her that just would not work well with dogs that are unfamiliar with this behavior.