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Hello all,

Our BC recently developed an aggressive cancer and passed quickly, less than 3 weeks from first sign to his passing. We had done a full blood workup (regular thing each year) just 3 months prior and the results showed a very healthy dog, we fully expected Kona to live another 3-5 years. We were extremely blessed to have been part of such a wonderful animals life.

 

Kona was our companion, he was part of nearly everything we did, from getting up in the morning to bedtime. While I've had dogs my entire life, Kona was far more than what most people seem to think of as a dog. Kona was so much a part of our lives we are still having trouble dealing with loss. We have been shocked by the number of neighbors and park friends that have been affected by his passing. I had no idea he touched so many people. Like probably every BC owner I could go on and on with stories of what a wonderful dog he was. One of his best traits was Kona really preferred people. He would forego other animals if any humans were around, he truly was our companion.

 

As fate would have it when Kona passed we were babysitting our kids dogs and then later another BC and we realize we probably should not wait as long as we have in the past to start over. Kona's parents were both working dogs on a farm in northern Calif, and even though he did not herd livestock he had several jobs, we loved his intelligence, energy and loving ways. He was the most gentle 60lb lap dog I've ever seen. We have a large yard and pretty much are home bodies. While Kona can never be replaced, my wife and I would like to find a couple BC puppies. We are thinking that we should get 2 this time. Last time I had a golden to help teach and entertain when we are not there. But starting with 2 puppies at the same time will be a new experience for us, any advice is very welcomed.

 

I would like to find a breeder that will allow us to meet the puppies before we buy, as I would prefer to have the puppy chose us, rather than the other way. Kona immediately and very definitely chose me and it was immediately apparent our bond was natural and deep.

 

I would appreciate any recommendations.

Thank you.

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do some homework regarding littermates. sometimes not recommended because of the challenges they can present. if not careful they will bond with each other instead of or to a lesser degree with their human companion. That said, Patrick Shannahan has lovely dogs, puppies, and lots of connections. http://www.patrickshannahan.com/

 

dave

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Don't get littermates. There are so many reasons why it's a bad idea (including a recent study by a guide dog school showing that when 2 pups are raised together, one never reaches full potential). Just get one pup at a time, separated by about 2 years in age.

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Or get a pup and a young adult rescue if you want two dogs right now. If you go to a reputable rescue, you can probably find a real gem, and possibly one that has already been house trained, etc., while in foster care. The young adult can provide the adult dog interactions that will help the pup to become a good canine citizen (in the dog world) and you won't have to worry about two pups = twice the destructiveness (or worse).

 

I'm sorry for your unexpected loss of Kona. And good luck finding your next perfect dog(s).

 

P.S. You will hear both sides of the raising littermates issue. I have done it and although it wasn't a great amount of extra work, they do behave like human siblings sometimes in that they will pick at each other and get into scuffles when they never bother the other dogs in the same way.

 

J.

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I'm surprised nobody has pointed out that you might have a hard time finding a breeder who will let you pick from a pile of puppies. Many breeders either match dogs to their owners or will go by "first pick" to "last pick" based on the order you were approved as a puppy owner.

 

It depends ...the avalanche owner got to pick out of the pile of pups as well as the service dog family. Other folks may give me info so I can select the pup for them. Others maybe in order of wait list. The last pup I kept because she latched on to me as she was growing up. Rainey was the runt so she stayed. Sometimes I end up with the pup that no one else wanted.

 

Diane

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Yes, it does depend. If you can get on the list for a litter early enough, you can be high on the wait list. I'm first pick besides the breeder for my puppy's litter, I made contact about 3 weeks before puppies were due. Most people wanted on the wait list for their litter before mine, it was pretty much full.

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It depends ...the avalanche owner got to pick out of the pile of pups as well as the service dog family. Other folks may give me info so I can select the pup for them. Others maybe in order of wait list. The last pup I kept because she latched on to me as she was growing up. Rainey was the runt so she stayed. Sometimes I end up with the pup that no one else wanted.

 

Diane

 

What never ceases to amaze me is how many high-achieving (on the hill and in trials) dogs and bitches are simply "the one that no one else wanted" and so remained with the breeder. That is so common that that is the way that many top dog men and dog women "select" the pup they keep, and they are very successful at work and at competition in trials.

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Just get one pup at a time, separated by about 2 years in age.

^^ this. We got our dogs 2 yrs. apart. It wasn't planned. It just worked out that way. And it's worked out great for us.

 

When we adopted JJ in '04 we were told he was 2 yrs. old. For the first 2 yrs. he was an only dog. It gave us a lot of one on one time with him. We took him to obedience classes, hiking, played ball and Frisbee and took him with us every chance we got. In '06 my DH & I moved my mom in with us after her double mastectomy. I would even take him with us 2-3 times a week when I took my mom in for her radiation treatments. It gave us a chance to really bond closely.

 

After my mom finished her treatments I felt like I suddenly had my brakes put on. I went from waking up every morning thinking "Where am I going today?" to "Wait, I don't have to go anywhere" so I started thinking about getting another dog. Besides, with everything we were doing with JJ, the one thing we couldn't do was play with him like another dog could so we adopted Jake. Him and JJ became instant buddies. JJ loves "road trips". Jake, not so much, but doG forbid if he gets left behind. Even to this day when we take the dogs somewhere Jake will sometimes look at JJ to see if a person or the path we're walking is ok. If JJ's happy, Jake's happy. JJ really helps Jake settle in quickly.

 

Spacing the dogs and their ages apart also helps with the vet bills. Jake goes for his annual checkup in August, JJ goes in Sept and Josie goes in Oct. JJ is 11 now and Jake is 8 so they get a wellness checkup vs. a regular checkup where they check their liver, kidneys and thyroid. It would be nice if their checkups were spaced 2 mos. apart vs. one right after another but it's still better than taking both or all 3 in at the same time.

 

Also, you never know what the future holds but I'm hoping I have at least a couple of years between each dog leaving us. It would be extremely hard on us if any of them leave us close together.

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Tess was the pup that no one wanted...she ran off and hid and peed on anyone who touched her....I like to say she was saving herself for me!

 

Her nickname for the first year was pee-pee princess as she peed anytime you looked at you or dogs came near her....any movement and she would pee and then hid underneath us.

 

If I was to see her now in a litter, I would pass but I guess God made the pick for us, so many years ago.

 

Diane

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I will second or third the recommendation NOT to get 2 puppies at the same time. Unless you're prepared to put a heckuva lot of effort into the already time-consuming business of raising puppies, you're liable to find yourself in for unhappy times.

If you are set on getting 2 puppies, you should be prepared to do everything twice - take for walks separately, train separately, make play time with you separately, teach to be alone separately - and most importantly, create significant time apart from each other. Otherwise, they may bond more to each other than to you and a whole host of difficulties can arise from that. Or one pup could end up overly dominant over the other, and you'd end up with the subservient pup having difficulties with confidence and/or an unwillingness to really bond with you, because it won't "compete" with the dominant pup for your attention. Or if neither is subservient, they may do a lot of sibling fighting, some of which can be ugly.

Plus, they will egg each other on in behaviors you may not care for, such as barking, digging, chewing, chasing, etc. Puppies don't "entertain" each other, they gang up and look for ways to be little hooligans together! :ph34r:

In short, having witnessed the distinct down-side of dual-puppy raising two or three times just this past year, I think the idea of getting 2 pups together only works if, A.) one doesn't plan to keep them for anything but house pets having no particular rules, or B.) one is prepared to house them separately a good deal of the time and supervise the time you do give them together. I strongly recommend letting a first pup get at least a year behind him before getting another pup.

Now that I've come across as a total killjoy .... B) But I do speak sincerely and from personal observation.

I'm not sure about breeders letting you chose from a pile of pups. I think what usually happens - what happened with me - is that deposits are taken and the "picks" of the litter go in order of when the deposits were placed. So, if you were the 3rd or 4th person to make a request and send in your deposit, you'd get 3rd or 4th pick of the litter. Also, if there is a waiting list when the bitch is bred, then you may again fall further down the list. Neither will always be the case, but be prepared to meet that.

Best of luck!

~ Gloria


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I'm sorry for the loss of Kona. Cancer is so cruel :( I'll echo the "don't get two at once" sentiment. Especially if a human focused dog is a trait that is important to you. What I might consider doing in this situation is getting a pup now and adding a 2-4 y/o adult rescue in a year or so. Or vise versa.

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I have kept two pups from each litter and then at 6 months or so, sell one. I do not house them together or let them bond to each other. I make a point of making sure they are not bonded to each other. I would ever let two siblings be house together or be pals. I want the pup to bond to me and not to each other.

 

Diane

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I think one other issue to getting two pups at the same time is that it is easy to substitute their being able to keep each other entertained for meaningful time with you. It's more time and effort to be the primary interest in your pup's life than to let one or two be "self-entertaining" but it is also much more rewarding and less frustrating to raise a pup to be a dog that is close to you, well-trained, and mannerly.

 

Just a thought from someone who tends to take the easy way out herself too often...

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I don't have any advice on multiple puppies but I would suggest spreading the dogs out in age. It helps spread the vet bills as they age, and hopefully it spaces the end out, there are no guarantees but saying goodbye to both your friends in a short time frame is no fun. As others have said maybe get an adult rescue who hopefully can act as a guide for your puppy.

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What never ceases to amaze me is how many high-achieving (on the hill and in trials) dogs and bitches are simply "the one that no one else wanted" and so remained with the breeder. That is so common that that is the way that many top dog men and dog women "select" the pup they keep, and they are very successful at work and at competition in trials.

I think this is a testament to a good breeding. the last pup is just as likely to be an excellent prospect as the first pup. also, a pup left with the breeder, if a "big hat" at trials, is most likely to get the best training.

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I think this is a testament to a good breeding. the last pup is just as likely to be an excellent prospect as the first pup. also, a pup left with the breeder, if a "big hat" at trials, is most likely to get the best training.

 

True, and true!

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We were awakened this morning to our second set of litter sisters (out of three sets we've raised) rough housing with each other. We could hear them chasing each other and wrestling. They are 7 years old.

 

Our sets from our litters

Rae (open) & Gyp (flunkie)

B.J. (open) & Nell (open)

Tally (ranch) & Eve (ranch)

 

It takes effort to raise littermates, we give each pup one-on-one time with us (especially our own pup) and some time for them to play together. We watch carefully for when the pups will not listen to us or focus on what they should be doing when they are together and will separate them when this occurs.

 

We breed for ourselves so we both want pups from each litter.

 

Mark Billadeau

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It can be harder to raise two pups....sometimes especially litter mates, but not necessarily.

 

Another consideration to keep in the back of your mind, is that someday these two dogs will also grow old together. In addition to trying to space out my youngsters, I also to try space out my oldsters....tho' at this point not doing such a great job of that.

 

I have two 6 yr litter mates....plus their full brother 5 yrs.

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Thank you all for the advice, we were just thinking 2 puppies so that the one was not alone when we were away. 1 would be much easier on everyone.

 

So now I'm looking for a list of recommended breeders in the So Cal area. I see getting on the list early is our best chance at getting to have a chance to let a puppy pick us.

 

Any recommendations ?

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So now I'm looking for a list of recommended breeders in the So Cal area. I see getting on the list early is our best chance at getting to have a chance to let a puppy pick us.

I don't want to be a killjoy, but I prefer having the breeder pick out the puppy for me, rather than "letting a puppy pick us". It is all warm and fuzzy to imagine that a puppy will be drawn to you because of some cosmic connection, but in reality, I think that you will have a better chance of getting the 'right' puppy FOR YOU if you let the breeder choose for you (assuming that you are dealing with a knowledgeable and experienced breeder).

 

The breeder will ask you about your lifestyle, what you want and don't want in a puppy, your goals for the puppy, and other information that will help the breeder choose the best puppy for you. After all, the breeder is the person who has lived with these puppies since birth and will have the best idea of individual personalities and how these personalities and traits should match up to potential buyers.

 

Jovi

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Not many border collie breeders in Southern California.... Before moving recently I lived in south oc/north sd and searched high and low for a working bred BC close by(within 3-4 hours) and I could only find two... And they're both on this board but I don't think either of them have puppies all that often. I ended up getting my pup from a ranch in northern california.

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Thank you the responses:

 

My preference comes from my experiences. Kona clearly picked me. I actually was there to get a different pup, but sat with them all for nearly an hour. Kona came over, laid down beside me and did not leave me the entire time. The other pups were typical puppies. He was such an amazing dog, and so much more attached and integrated into our lives compared to previous dogs that I latched on to that 'choosing' as one of the keys. Maybe a breeder would know, but I've not dealt with enough breeders to have any real knowledge or experience. But given the lack of options, its likely I won't have much of a choice.

 

I surprised though, I've only seen one recommendation for a breeder in this thread.

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i know we've had this discussion before... most folks that have a litter of working border collies aren't typical breeders but rather someone that is breeding a litter for their own purposes... obviously not wanted 6 - 8 pups for themselves there are typically dogs available. There are a few exceptions but for the most part I think this is true. finding a pup is a more a matter of connecting with the right people that have connections with the right people. there are lots of folks in southern california that will have a feel on who has what and when.

 

dave

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My preference comes from my experiences. Kona clearly picked me. I actually was there to get a different pup, but sat with them all for nearly an hour. Kona came over, laid down beside me and did not leave me the entire time. The other pups were typical puppies. He was such an amazing dog, and so much more attached and integrated into our lives compared to previous dogs that I latched on to that 'choosing' as one of the keys.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is wonderful that you had such a special connection with Kona - BUT another interpretation of your scenario is that Kona was tired, so laid next to you while all the other puppies did typical puppy things. Or Kona was the most submissive and/or laid-back of the litter so he chose to not engage in the shenanigans of the other puppies. Or maybe he was the one who like humans the most. You see? There could be other explanations, but whatever the reason, you were gifted with the puppy that was just right for you.

 

My first pup (just out of college and wanting a pup of my own) was a B&W shelter dog that grew up to look like a BC X lab. The reason I chose her was because when I went into the puppy pen at the shelter, she was the only one that was awake and she toddled over to me. Of course, she was MY puppy. (Now, I know I was clueless about how to pick a puppy other than to pick the one I liked based on cuteness. :) I hope I have learned something in the intervening years.) In hindsight, I joke that her alertness was a foretelling of her hyperactive personality that really kept me on my toes.

 

Anyway, now I prefer to approach the puppy-picking process by leaving it to someone else (if I am buying from a knowledgeable breeder). I think their decision will be less emotional and possibly more accurate as long as I have clearly communicated what I am looking for in a puppy.

 

Jovi

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