Sheep herding training vs goat herding training

[1sheepdoggal]

Yep, but thats what Im breeding for right now, is to build back up the herd for breeding ewes. Right now Ive only got 5 adult ewes to breed, and 4ewe lambs from this springs lambing, and want to build back up to 20 breeding ewes. Any ewe lambs I get that are like their dams, Im holding onto for breed stock. ( and this years ewe lambs of course are unproven as of yet)

The ram lambs are wethered and are being used to work dogs, and once I have 10 of those, then any others will be sold for meat. Im only up to a dozen sheep right now, ( I culled hard last fall) and 1 of those is going in the freezer. Once I get 20 head of the type of breeding ewes Im looking for, then I can try another type of ram, but right now, my main concern is breeding for breeder ewes with emphasis on correct hair type, good feet, temperment, worm resistance, and good mothering instincts that have twins/trips, that are easy keepers. Dont know if that makes sence to some of you that have different reasons for breeding, but thats my goal. Out here in the south, the correct coat that sheds off easily to me, is a plus, or maybe thats just the groomer in me

[Lenajo]

Darci I'm way further south than you, but yes, we are definafely a different point in flock planning. Right now I'm running about 125 head of hair and hair/wool cross ewes. I've not found pure hair sheep suitable for the lambing market I have - they just don't grow quick enough. And even lambs I'm rolling over to fall for Ramadan or ewe labms must grow fast early to have body mass to get enough grass on board to survive once the summer heat hits. Lambs less than 80 lbs by the end of May will struggle the rest of the summer.

 

Most of this years lambs are being produced for market only. The sire for them is a BFL X St Croix - an Alabama Mule . I'm using an a young IDF/Dorper on another group, will see how that works.

 

I don't mind back shearing - and the shearer doesn't either actually. It's just the same price per ewe

[1sheepdoggal]

I've not found pure hair sheep suitable for the lambing market

 

I understand that, I dont think I would either if that was what I was breeding for, as I agree, the lambs are slow to grow and dont put on the lbs very quickly at all with the cross I have right now. Id hoped the infusion of the St Croix would do that, ( add some weight) but it didnt, not so you'd notice of any consequence but I am liking what he is doing for alot of other things I wanted, so size will come a bit later, as it is,....I have a very small freezer

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Wendy, where did you get your IDF from?

[Lenajo]

It's out of Tamarack stock crossed to a White Dorper from a farm in Georgia.

[OurBoys]

Well, the lady from the Register of Deeds emailed me back on how to find the subdivision's restrictions. It looks like I'm going to have to find another reason to justify the cost of training.

 

11. No animals, livestock or poultry of any kind shall be raised, bred or kept on any lot, except that dogs, cats amd other household pets may be kept, provided they are not kept, bred or maintained for commercial purposes. Dogs must be kept within a fenced area located upon the lot of the owner, and then in such a manner so that the same shall not constitute an annoyance or nuisance to the neighborhood.

 

I know I'm saying this because I'm feeling sorry for myself but the part about dogs must be kept within a fenced area ticks me off. There are approx 32-33 houses in this subdivision and only 4 of us have a fenced in backyard. At least half of us, if not more, have dogs. This county does not have a leash law. According to AC, as long as you have your dog under voice control, they don't have to be on a leash. While reading through the restrictions, I also noticed a number of other items not being enforced. Oh, well, the good news is no one can become a BYB while living here, not that I can see anyone here doing that anyway.

 

We did have fun at the fair last night. (I was wrong thinking it was a state fair. It was a county fair. I could have sworn when I googled it I was the word State but I digress.) They only had buildings for Jersey cows and poultry. The only goats they had were pygmies in the petting zoo part and no sheep. I tell you what.....they had some fine-looking leghorns in the poultry building! DH was still impressed with them when he got up this morning and googled breeds of chickens to find out more info on them. We can still dream..........

[juliepoudrier]

I'm sorry Brenda. I was afraid you'd end up finding some rules against keeping livestock. Maybe you need to start looking for a little property in the country and out of a subdivision!

 

J.

[OurBoys]

Thanks, Julie! There have been a number of times I wish we could move even before this but unfortunately, that isn't possible right now. It took dh 2 yrs to draw up the plans for the house and he helped build it when he could so unless he is downsized and can't find a job around here, we are here to stay for awhile.

 

If time is on my side, dh will be available for 'buyout' or 'early retirement' in 5 yrs. If we still decide to stay here, the last paragraph on the restrictions state "These covenants are to run with the land and shall be binding upon all parties and all person claiming under them for a period of 20 years from the date these covenants are recorded; after which time said covenants shall be automatically extended for successive periods of ten (10) years unless an instrument signed by a majority of the then owners of the lots has been recorded, agreeing to change said covenants in whole or in part." The restrictions were dated Oct 26, 1989. The downside?? By Oct 2019 I'll be 63.

[Little Bo Boop]

I'm actually not supposed to have sheep either We're on 7 1/2 acres (still hoping to get 'my hill' which whould bump it up another 12) but we're supposed to be restriced to one large animal (we can have horses or cows but no sheep) per acre. I knew of the no sheep clause when we got the place, but that was before the great addiction Anyway, there were enough other folks not adhering to the covenants, I figured what the heck. So I snuck in 5 head, then did some swapping in and out for a year or so, and now have 9 head of my own, and hopefully lambs coming in the fall. So far no one has said anything to me ;-) (but I'm ready if they do!) My closest neighbors actually love the sheep, and really get a kick out of them. But I second getting some nice hair sheep. I have Dorper/St.Croix crosses and they are great. They don't smell, they don't test the fences, they stay fat on air it seems and they really hold up to working the dogs. I know someone else said they'd had trouble with Dorper rams? All the ones I've been around have been docile as can be (granted I've not been a round a great number of them) but I've yet to encounter a mean or unruly one. As a matter of fact if I get my extra acerage, I'll probabaly get a nice Dorper ram. Hope you're able to work something out so you can get some stock.

 

 

Betty

[1sheepdoggal]

So sorry to hear that Brenda, I will say though that your original posts sure opened up the way for a nice discussion, so thanks. I primarily use my sheep for dog working, but they are not necessarily tools, I enjoy them, and love having them, I think they are wonderful critters and hope for you that one day you will be able to enjoy living with them too.

[Little Bo Boop]

So sorry to hear that Brenda, I will say though that your original posts sure opened up the way for a nice discussion, so thanks. I primarily use my sheep for dog working, but they are not necessarily tools, I enjoy them, and love having them, I think they are wonderful critters and hope for you that one day you will be able to enjoy living with them too.

 

 

Same here Darci, I got my sheep primarily to work dogs. But now :-) I've really grown to like sheep. I could sit down at the barn and just watch them for hours (ok, well maybe not hours) but I really enjoy them a lot. And I've said this before, but I really think that having my own sheep, has made me a better handler. And not just because I have them available to work everyday, but because I really like them, and I make Sure that my dogs treat them right, so I do whatever I have to do to make sure that happens. And of course I'm very careful of who I let come over and work too. I'm very protective of my little flock ; -)

[Little Bo Boop]

By the way, just how do you go about milking a ewe I mean if I have a ewe that lambs, can the ewe produce enough milk for her lamb, and for milking? Sorry if thats a stupid question. I LOVE goat and sheep cheese. I've never had goat or sheeps milk before, is it good? Somehow I just don't picture my gals standing still to be milked though ;-(

[OurBoys]

Betty, I hope you get your 'hill' soon!!

 

Darci, whether I would have gone with goats or sheep, they would have been my pets first. I just love animals. That's why this has hurt in more ways than one.

 

I also want to thank you guys and everyone else who posted. Even though it didn't work out for me for now, maybe it gave someone else hope. I would strongly urge anyone (who doesn't live in a subdivision), even if you only have 1 acre of land, there are dwarf breeds out there! I say go for it!! I know I would.

[juliepoudrier]

I've never had goat or sheeps milk before, is it good?

When we used to drink goat's milk exclusively, we couldn't tell the difference (unless they got into some onions). People who would come by and at first try to refuse it couldn't tell the difference either. I'm sure there are some differences, but they aren't so great as to be super noticeable. For me now, just the fact that I've been drinking skim milk for years would probably make any whole milk, no matter what the species, taste odd.

 

As for whether a ewe would have enough milk for you and the lamb(s) I think that would depend entirely on the individual ewe. Hand milking is not difficult to learn, but a ewe with teats on the larger side would be easier to milk than one with tiny teats.

 

J.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I had a Dorset I could milk like nobody's business, and she's passed that trait on to her babies, who themselves are passing it on. It's one reason I'm using a ram from that line on my ewes this year. Not because I want to milk necessarily, but because it pays off in great fast growing, strong lambs.

 

It feels like there's two things that make a ewe easy to milk. The bigger teats, of course. But I can also milk a small-teated ewe if she's got a good letdown on her. If you stimulate the right place on the udder the milk practically jumps out on ewes like that. If you watch, lambs don't nurse very long compared to kids or calves. They bang the bag and suck a few times and they are done. The milk seems to come out at an incredible rate at the height of lactation.

 

Brenda, if you don't have many houses in your subdivision, you might be able to get everyone to agree to allow livestock. Those restrictions aren't laws - they are something that was put in place when it was zoned originally. Our first farm was zoned for a snobby subdivision - they had rules about not being able to see your air conditioner or trash can, and houses and major structures under 1600 sq feet weren't allowed. Both our barn AND house were slated for demolition. Not to mention, of course, no livestock were allowed.

 

The previous owners went around at the time of the sale, and had everyone in the neighborhood sign off on every item saying they didn't care. Thankfully we only had two neighbors at the time - a guy who had a huge kennel of working beagles and was grateful WE didn't care about the noise - and a close neighbor who flew a Confederate flag in his front yard and was very into property rights and thought getting rid of restrictions was a terrific idea. That was a very nice guy. If we ever needed anything shot, he was totally The Guy.

 

Good luck!

[mbernard2424]

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[Sue R]

People who would come by and at first try to refuse it couldn't tell the difference either. I'm sure there are some differences, but they aren't so great as to be super noticeable. J.

You are not the only one who found that out, Julie! We used to have plenty of company that insisted they would never drink goat milk as it tastes funny or awful or whatever, while they happily drank what was in their glasses. For some reason, I think they figured it either came from the store or from some cow we must have had out back somewhere. It was goat milk, fresh, strained, quickly chilled.