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Lack of eye, confidence


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#1 kelpiegirl

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 04:21 PM

I've a young dog that I am really pleased with, save for his seeming lack of eye and confidence. He was not a very easy dog to start- lots of tension, but he's really gotten his boot straps on now. But, I need to know what I can do to work on him getting used to, and comfortable with pushing with intent.
Never wrestle with pigs, you only get dirty, and they like it.


http://kelpiematrix.blogspot.com/

#2 RMSBORDERCOLLIES

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 07:51 PM

I've a young dog that I am really pleased with, save for his seeming lack of eye and confidence. He was not a very easy dog to start- lots of tension, but he's really gotten his boot straps on now. But, I need to know what I can do to work on him getting used to, and comfortable with pushing with intent.



Hi. I replied to you personally. You can post the answer if you like........Bob

#3 kelpiegirl

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 06:09 AM

Thanks Bob, I will, here it is. Thanks SOOO much for your advice, it's indispensible, really.

Congratulations on your Dan working so well. The main thing you have to consider in bringing a dog's confidence level up is that he wins all the time. So you will not put him in situations that he can't handle for now. As far as the lifting is concerned bring him back in quite a bit closer and send him on his outrun. DO NOT STOP HIM AT THE TOP!!!!! Let him find his balance and lift his sheep toward you with no commands. Just a few encouraging sshhs or "that's a boy, walk up on 'em" or something to that effect. Walk away from the sheep so that he is encouraged to bring them to you and then just let him bring them to you and praise him and then do another about 10 yards further away the next time. Mix it up with driving and some balance work so he doesn't get bored and if he gets to the point that he is having trouble moving the sheep go and help him with some close on encouragment. His lack of eye is really a good thing as loose eyed dogs tend to comfort sheep and not get them excited. The sheep really like them. I think you are really not experiencing a weak dog, you are experiencing a dog that has possibly been slowed a little too much and lacks some confidence from a little too much control and not enough leaving him to make some of the decisions. A really good way to raise confidence in the dog is to work him on the fence and in the corners, teaching him to bring sheep off the fence and out of the corners quietly and with presence. He also will get more eye as he ages. 20 months old is still a puppy and I have pups of mine that don't even start training until that age, so don't get worried about him being weak just yet. Work on teaching him to move sheep off fences and corners, lifting with authority and balance but not aggressiveness. He'll come along with some winning time spent on him and getting a little more mature is going to help also. Get back to me and let me know how you are doing.........Bob
Never wrestle with pigs, you only get dirty, and they like it.


http://kelpiematrix.blogspot.com/

#4 RMSBORDERCOLLIES

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:06 PM

Thanks Bob, I will, here it is. Thanks SOOO much for your advice, it's indispensible, really.

Congratulations on your Dan working so well. The main thing you have to consider in bringing a dog's confidence level up is that he wins all the time. So you will not put him in situations that he can't handle for now. As far as the lifting is concerned bring him back in quite a bit closer and send him on his outrun. DO NOT STOP HIM AT THE TOP!!!!! Let him find his balance and lift his sheep toward you with no commands. Just a few encouraging sshhs or "that's a boy, walk up on 'em" or something to that effect. Walk away from the sheep so that he is encouraged to bring them to you and then just let him bring them to you and praise him and then do another about 10 yards further away the next time. Mix it up with driving and some balance work so he doesn't get bored and if he gets to the point that he is having trouble moving the sheep go and help him with some close on encouragment. His lack of eye is really a good thing as loose eyed dogs tend to comfort sheep and not get them excited. The sheep really like them. I think you are really not experiencing a weak dog, you are experiencing a dog that has possibly been slowed a little too much and lacks some confidence from a little too much control and not enough leaving him to make some of the decisions. A really good way to raise confidence in the dog is to work him on the fence and in the corners, teaching him to bring sheep off the fence and out of the corners quietly and with presence. He also will get more eye as he ages. 20 months old is still a puppy and I have pups of mine that don't even start training until that age, so don't get worried about him being weak just yet. Work on teaching him to move sheep off fences and corners, lifting with authority and balance but not aggressiveness. He'll come along with some winning time spent on him and getting a little more mature is going to help also. Get back to me and let me know how you are doing.........Bob


Hi there. I have watched all 5 of your video clips and I can see nothing there that would make me think the dog is weak. My suggestion to not lie the dog down at the top just before the lift still stands. The time to steady the dog is after the lift just when he wants to start pushing a little too hard. Wait for the sheep to turn and start towards you and watch your dog so you can determine when he is getting to the point that he wants the sheep to go a little faster. That is the time to slow him down with a steady whistle or a long slow lie down. What I am seeing also is that your sheep, being quite broke, tend to run to you when the dog lifts and then you tend to let the dog get out of contact with the sheep on the fetch. I think this is probably an attempt at trying to get the sheep to slow down a bit. In one clip your dog was at least 50 or 60 yards lieing down behind the sheep and they were still running to you. You need to keep the dog in contact with the sheep but pace them so they move as efficiently as possible. Try working from a different position on the field so that you change the draw and this may help you to determine where your dog needs to be in order to move the sheep with authority and pace. Try to find a spot that the dog will have to take charge at the top and move the sheep off without them wanting to run toward you. Your dog is working very well and has nice square flanks from what I see on the clips. Keep up the good work. Bob

#5 kelpiegirl

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 05:37 AM

Thanks Bob- when I watched the video, I did notice where I "grunted" him too far off the sheep in an attempt to slow him down. I just don't want to wreck a good dog, so all of this will be saved for future reference, BIG TIME. Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi there. I have watched all 5 of your video clips and I can see nothing there that would make me think the dog is weak. My suggestion to not lie the dog down at the top just before the lift still stands. The time to steady the dog is after the lift just when he wants to start pushing a little too hard. Wait for the sheep to turn and start towards you and watch your dog so you can determine when he is getting to the point that he wants the sheep to go a little faster. That is the time to slow him down with a steady whistle or a long slow lie down. What I am seeing also is that your sheep, being quite broke, tend to run to you when the dog lifts and then you tend to let the dog get out of contact with the sheep on the fetch. I think this is probably an attempt at trying to get the sheep to slow down a bit. In one clip your dog was at least 50 or 60 yards lieing down behind the sheep and they were still running to you. You need to keep the dog in contact with the sheep but pace them so they move as efficiently as possible. Try working from a different position on the field so that you change the draw and this may help you to determine where your dog needs to be in order to move the sheep with authority and pace. Try to find a spot that the dog will have to take charge at the top and move the sheep off without them wanting to run toward you. Your dog is working very well and has nice square flanks from what I see on the clips. Keep up the good work. Bob


Never wrestle with pigs, you only get dirty, and they like it.


http://kelpiematrix.blogspot.com/



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