mum24dog Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Regarding theft, it looks like there are (combination?) locks on all three crate doors. J. But the crates look as if they could be lifted right out and they don't look very sturdy. A 4 month old BC pup was recently stolen from a vehicle complete with cage not too far from here. I'm sure the pup's owner thought it was safe too. They look similar to mine and I could quite easily get round the slight impediment of a door lock. I wouldn't personally leave my vehicle so wide open on the street with my dogs in, although I do all the time at training or at shows (depending on location. But I do agree that we shouldn't be intruding on the privacy of a complete stranger this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Cressa Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Another thought: I know when I work 12+ hours I will bring the dogs with me(depending on the weather). That way I could let them out and make sure they are ok. Also if I am planning on going hiking after work I will bring them since some of the hiking spots are closer to work then home. They get way more attention and care when in the car then if they get left at home. Some people get concern about the dogs being in the crates for hours and I point out they still would be in crates at home. At least in the car at work I can check on them, and let them out when need be. Lol they love coming to work with me. They always gets xtra food and playtime that way. If I had a set up like the pix I would most likly bring the dogs a lot more as long as my managers didn't mind. Also I second the screen idea. They do make the car cooler and add privacy to the dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted May 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 But I do agree that we shouldn't be intruding on the privacy of a complete stranger this way. Errrr, call me crazy, but if I document something I see happening on a public street, I can't see how that is an invasion of privacy. It certainly is not illegal, at least not in this state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Hmm. Sounds like the dogs are perfectly fine. What exactly are you trying to accomplish here? If the barking bothers you, then complain to the city. But you won't be doing it for the dogs' sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 It certainly is not illegal, at least not in this state. So that makes it ok to do? Since the van is at 25 W Richmond Ave., Pt. Richmond CA.........you may have cropped out tags....but not the phone number of the restaurant. How would "you" feel if you found a thread like this about "you" pictures and all? ETA - I can't think of anything that is illegal in Ca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted May 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 How would "you" feel if you found a thread like this about "you" pictures and all? ETA - I can't think of anything that is illegal in Ca. How I would feel is this: Someone is concerned about the dogs. Maybe they are a busybody - maybe they really are concerned. Annoying? Perhaps. But I would give them the benefit of the doubt - thank them for their concern and explain as much or as little as my personal bent would suggest. That would probably be the end of it for me. I did come here to see what a group of my peers thought about the situation. What I have gotten is that it probably isn't necessary to call anybody. I included the pictures because I did not wish to create a false impression of the situation by a poor choice of words in the description of what I saw. If our moderator deems this thread inappropriate, I encourage her to delete it. If it stays I will follow it, but refrain from further comment unless it is asked for. I respectfully submit that you don't know much about California law. There is a great deal that is illegal here - perhaps more than there should be. Everyone is entitled to an opinion - I have asked for those of our members, and mostly they have been useful. They have helped me decide that unless something changes for the worse I need do nothing. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearse Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Temporary homelessness. .. My first thought. I've seen a lot of it lately. And, no, I don't think it's abuse. Many dogs spend a good part of the day in kennels or crates when their owners are at work. The temps aren't dangerous. The van is open. They have water. They appear to be in good condition. Apart from the noise, they aren't really doing anything you wouldn't see every weekend at a dog trial or agility trial. Pearse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 From all I've been hearing on the news lately, pretty much nothing about our lives is private anymore.... Isn't the whole argument for traffic and other surveillance cameras the fact that if you are in a public space you give up some expectation of privacy? As for the stealing aspect, I guess that depends on how often she's looking out at them and whether she's enlisted the help of others at the same place. It's not like you can easily lift a crate and take off with it, at least not IME (I'd like to see someone yank a crate out of my van unnoticed). Anyway, I suspect if she's coming out and checking on them and moving the van around, she's also probably looking out the door periodically to make sure no one is messing with them. All supposition of course, but that's what I did when I parked dogs in the van at my work place. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 My first responsibility, I feel, if I feel any doubt about the safety about the helpless, is to speak in a friendly manner to the person in question. Wouldn't it be easy? I'm saying this as a severely social phobic person, to the point of agoraphobia. But I've started conversations like this. I wouldn't discuss the situation, but the dogs - "Wow, cool, Border Collies, I'm into Border Collies too! Neat setup, do you do sports or anything with them?" It might turn out that you can help! Maybe she needs a dog walker or sitter! How cool would that be? Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Everyone here who has posted photos of someone's dogs has first obtained permission of the owner? There has never been a thread here that has put a stranger in an unfavorable light without that person being able to defend themselves? This to me has been a very civil discussion on what was seen and perceived by the OP and who seemed to be seeking advice on uncertainty on what they should do. A whole lot more civil than other dicussions about the actions of total strangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 If I found pictures of my car and dogs on a site like this, if feeling inclined I might explain myself, but if not feeling like an explanation was or needed I wouldn't worry, knowing I'm doing what I need to do with my dogs. With the responces that were given I'd probably not say a word. Geonni, I don't see any issues with you posting and asking, the "what if" factor is worth the asking. Like you said, you came for opinions, you got them, shine on what you need to. If is was my bar or resturant...free publicity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 I respectfully submit that you don't know much about California law. There is a great deal that is illegal here - perhaps more than there should be. Geonni, You're right. It's been a long time since I've been in California. Can you please post the link to the California dog laws? Are they by county? By state? By city? Or are there state laws also? Please don't bow out of the discussion because you didn't like the responses you're getting. Let's talk about it. So what ... you posted some photos. Like you said, if they're inappropriate, Eileen will handle that. If there is something illegal going on with this woman and her dogs, perhaps something should be said. But first let's see what you're talking about with what is illegal. What California (city/state/county) laws is she in violation of? Jodi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Crocker Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Why don't you just ask her? I agree, ask her. Maybe if you are close to here at times during the day, you could offer to check on them for her if she is at work or whatever she is doing there. Maybe start the conversation by mentioning that you also have border collies. Being a country person ,I would worry about my dogs in a public parking area being stolen though. If we saw this at a sheepdog trial we coulw consider this the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Jodi, I think the whole legal discussion has to do with whether Geonni was within her legal rights to photograph and post pictures of a car parked in a public place, not about dog laws. Geonni never claimed that the woman was in violation of any laws. She posted pictures and asked for opinions about the situation. I don't see why she should now need to post any information about dog laws in California. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluj Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 The photos show exactly how many of us house our dogs while at trials. Depending upon how many spectators, competitors, and parking arrangements at the trial there could be many people walking past our crated dogs in vehicles. Yes, but virtually everyone at a dog trial is a dog owner, which is not typically the case for a public street or bar. I'd certainly be worried about people harassing those dogs, even with her keeping an eye on them from inside the bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamincomet Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Speaking as a person who has severe panic disorder with agoraphobia, I can completely see where the OP is coming from with not wanting to talk to the owner. I know I definitely wouldn't, I can't even call and order pizza. So no, it's not just that easy, for some of us. I think the OP went about this the best they could, and I probably would have went about it the same way. They were unsure how to handle the situation, so they documented it the best they could, and came to people that seem pretty knowledgeable about this kind of stuff. I think a lot of good advice has been given, and it sounds like the OP's questions have been answered. All in all this seems like it's been a pretty civil thread, hopefully it stays that way. Autumn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted May 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Geonni, You're right. It's been a long time since I've been in California. Can you please post the link to the California dog laws? Are they by county? By state? By city? Or are there state laws also? Please don't bow out of the discussion because you didn't like the responses you're getting. Let's talk about it. So what ... you posted some photos. Like you said, if they're inappropriate, Eileen will handle that. If there is something illegal going on with this woman and her dogs, perhaps something should be said. But first let's see what you're talking about with what is illegal. What California (city/state/county) laws is she in violation of? Jodi I don't think I ever said she was in violation of any laws - I certainly didn't mean to - I did say that if AC officers went to talk to her she might or might not have her dogs licensed and if she didn't they would very likely ticket her for that - which was another reason I chose not to call AC. I would not want to make that particular kind of trouble for anyone. I think licensing is bogus, and while I have a license for my dog, I completely understand if some people choose not to license. She doesn't appear to be in violation of any laws that I know of. I suppose someone could call her in for nuisance barking, but AC around here isn't much interested in those calls unless they are about dogs barking at night and the same dogs are being complained about multiple times. She's not around at night, and while the dogs bark more than I'd like it isn't continuous - I have a very low tolerance for barking. But I know that, and don't expect others to keep their dogs utterly silent. I don't know of any websites dedicated to California dog law, though I'm quite sure they exist. Google could fix you up with that as easily as I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Geonni, My apologies. I apparently completely misunderstood what you meant when you said, "I respectfully submit that you don't know much about California law. " I guess I still don't understand what you were referring to, but that's ok. Jodi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted May 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Geonni, My apologies. I apparently completely misunderstood what you meant when you said, "I respectfully submit that you don't know much about California law. " I guess I still don't understand what you were referring to, but that's ok. Jodi I meant that in reference to taking pics of the van the dogs are in. I have had people come unglued on me when I took a picture of a dog I thought was appealing. I usually just delete the photo and have them watch while I do it. I don't know why people get so upset - one lady screamed at me that I was going to "get money selling pictures of her dog." As a matter of fact, I do sometimes get money for pics of dogs in a local gallery, but when I am taking snapshots of dogs on the street and get nice ones I usually offer to e-mail shots to the owners for free. Most people are delighted with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 I have had people come unglued on me when I took a picture of a dog I thought was appealing. I usually just delete the photo and have them watch while I do it. I don't know why people get so upset Well, as someone who is relatively picture-free on the Internet, and doesn't understand the Facebook generation's need to share everything they do with everyone on the planet, I have to say I completely understand not wanting a stranger digitally documenting me. I'm out grocery shopping. My hair is a mess. Maybe I look totally muddy and sloppy from walking my dog. I'm also a public school teacher, and 8th graders aren't the kindest people in the world. On the Internet, they can do some pretty harsh stuff with any photo of me. Beyond that, even if I weren't a tiny bit of a "public figure" around here - why the bleep does some stranger need to be photographing me without my permission? Just because everyone has a digital camera these days doesn't mean it's suddenly become polite or thoughtful to take photos of other people (or their dogs) without asking them first. When I look around the world these days, I think: George Orwell was right. Except Big Brother doesn't have to watch us, because we're willingly and complacently and happily handing over our right to privacy, to the Big Brothers of Facebook and Twitter. Just because it's happening doesn't mean we need to happily roll over and accept it. In fact, I think we should probably be getting really riled up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 When I look around the world these days, I think: George Orwell was right. Except Big Brother doesn't have to watch us, because we're willingly and complacently and happily handing over our right to privacy, to the Big Brothers of Facebook and Twitter. Just because it's happening doesn't mean we need to happily roll over and accept it. In fact, I think we should probably be getting really riled up. Sorry, not to morph the subject, but ... this is also one of my pet peeves. I actually think that Google (which I admit to using) is even more insidious than Facebook and Twitter. With F & T, people voluntarily sign up, but so many of us (including me) don't know how much private info Google has on all of us and what they are using it for. Every so often I read another story about information gathering & privacy issues with respect to Google strategies and I get a chill running down my spine. Anyway, back to dog issues now.... Jovi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewie'sMom Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 Geonni, I haven't read every post in this thread so my apologies if this have been suggested. Firstly, I don't believe this is abuse. Quite the contrary; it appears this gal is making concerted efforts to keep her dogs cool and relatively safe. I only say "relatively" because leaving a dog unattended for a time opens the possibility of some nut stealing them. Anyway, IF you are comfortable enough to approach her, and I understand you may not be, how about offering help? She may appreciate a sincere offer to help keep an eye on the dogs or occasionally walk them. I know it's a leap to approach a stranger about their pets, but she may be glad for some help. And who knows, you may cultivate a lovely new friendship in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted May 14, 2011 Report Share Posted May 14, 2011 If I were you and saw this, I would approach her and say "Nice looking dogs" and since we all LOVE our dogs, that will open the conversation easily. You might find there is a valid reason she has to do that (maybe like her place is too hot etc) and you might end up being friends and able to help her. Maybe she might need a doggie daycare contact or someone to dog sit. Either way, strike up a conversation to her about her dogs, obvioulsy she cares and that is a good starting point. You might end up with a good dog friend in this process. Plus you get to pet her dogs too (hopefully!) Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogger_woggers Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Bring your dogs out on a walk near the restaurant. She'll see you with them and that will probably make her come over and talk to you. I always approach people with border collies on a walk and ask them about their dogs and their usually delighted to tell me about them. Maybe she'll open up to you on her own. Then you can ask her if her dogs can stay at your house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barefoot Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 I find nothing abusive about this set up. However, I do find it highly offensive that there has been a lack of courtesy given to the owner. A simple inquiry. Yet the audacity of uploading pictures to the internet of someones vehicle and dogs, w/o permission, is not abusive? The dog world is small. I have to agree with this. I find the inquiry far more concerning than having crated dogs in a wide open car parked in the shade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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