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Sonic's 'High Anxiety' Class


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So we went to the first class. Overall, great experience. He went from looking like a scared, stressed doggie to happy wags, tell me what to do next, doggie. Wowza. No, he wasn't perfect.

Actually, when he saw a dog waiting to go in (at quite a distance) he squealed like a tortured piglet. He did shut-up when I went in (he was the 1st dog inside), and then keeping him busy, his mat (from home), training games (lots of treats) kept him out of 'melt-down', yay. At the very end, he did bark once or twice (single barks, not melt-down).


About the class :


Good stuff :


*only 4 dogs, enough space, dogs reactive 'enough' to be useful (Sonic does not 'react' to calm dogs).


*Room is separated by a glass wall divider, with plywood half-door so a dog can be taken into that space to calm down with the handler still able to follow and listen to instructions.


*instructions and strageties to handle reactive moments, u-turns, recalls, etc.. the usual.


Weird stuff :


*sprayed something called DAP on a bandanna to put on the dogs. I'm just a skeptic, but if it works, or is a placebo, don't care : may even look into getting it (except it probably doesn't work out doors in the wind) but if helps calm in class, I'm all for it.


Really weird stuff :


Recommends using a groomer's muzzle (the kind that holds the mouth closed, not basket style) to 'calm' a reactive dog when you are stuck in a place where you can't calm your dog and your dog starts the crazy barking. Barking itself ramps them up, so stopping the barking will prevent them from getting worse, I guess....(it's very hard to handle a dog and pay perfect attention the whole time so not sure exactly what she said). She did emphasize this was a temporary measure, and was part of recommending that dogs should be conditioned (with treats, of course) to wearing these in low stress times, so that they 'like' or 'love' wearing it.

Having tried that with halti's on previous dogs, I find there is a huge difference between 'floppy thing on face' equals treats and 'dog helplessly restrained' in a real word scenario.

I do 'get' that accustoming a dog to a muzzle is a good idea and plan to do so (our neighbours dog spent his last day on earth in the back of their station wagon because no one could get near him to bring him into the house (he was in severe pain), so conditioning to a muzzle might have let him at least have a comfy bed and home for his last day), say, yes, any dog might need a muzzle someday in the future.

I'm just hugely skeptical that muzzling an 'over-threshold' dog actually would have a calming effect.


I'm open minded about training (all aspects) but unless I hear otherwise, if Sonic has a meltdown in class and she hands me a muzzle, I'll be saying, 'no, I'll take him outside and calm him down there (my husband is with me, so he will stay and attend the lesson and fill me in should this happen).


And my own pet peeve : Sonic was completely awesome, attentive, drilling holes in my face with his eyes. It was a culmination of two months of sweat and tears, everything coming together, and what does she say, when I say I'm thrilled that Sonic is so focussed on me ? 'that's just the border collie in him'--blah, would it have killed her to hand me a compliment ???


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You can get DAP collars that are similar to flea collars and good up to a month. The instructions with them don't say anything about them not working outside. We've used them with Gabe, and it's hard to tell if they work or if it's placebo, since we can't test him in that exact situation with vs. without them (first time staying alone with someone else, etc.) but they don't hurt, and they seem to help. I usually order the Adaptil brand from Amazon.

 

We have a basket muzzle that we've done some conditioning on making it a fun-happy-positive experience, but we are just not quite to where I can buckle it on him. We have used the groomer muzzles that keep his mouth closed at the vet, since that's what they have, he needs to be muzzled, and I don't want to take out the basket muzzle before it's associated with happy-good stuff and associate it with scary-bad stuff. He does get significantly easier to manage once the muzzle is on. It could be because I'm more confident, and so is the vet, when he can't bite us, or because he just shuts down/gives up. So I guess it does calm him, but I don't think I'm buying your trainer's "barking revs them up and it escalates etc. etc".

 

You know the blood, sweat, and tears that have gotten you to that point, and you know where you started even if the trainer doesn't. Even if this trainer isn't everything you want, being in this setting with other dogs will give you guys some good practice, and you can go on from there. I think we're starting reactive dog class next week. Hopefully Gabe can handle it!

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I am surprised the trainer said that it was just the Border Collie in him. In my limited experience with Juno and other Border Collies, their stare is not necessarily where you want it. In my opinion, if Sonic is focussed on you that is a big deal, Juno and I get our best results when she is focussed on me but I can tell you that she can be incredibly focussed on a squirrel or a stick when she is supposed to be focussed on me.

Bill

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I am surprised the trainer said that it was just the Border Collie in him. In my limited experience with Juno and other Border Collies, their stare is not necessarily where you want it. In my opinion, if Sonic is focussed on you that is a big deal, Juno and I get our best results when she is focussed on me but I can tell you that she can be incredibly focussed on a squirrel or a stick when she is supposed to be focussed on me.

Bill

Yeah, same here. Sonic basically goes nuts about anything that moves, now includes Canada geese, oh joy.

She was being dismissive. Maybe some history there. I took Dynamo to her class (13 yrs ago), and did things differently from her, with much success. That would be a separate story, but she does remember 'the team'. I thought that was a good thing, but her comment made me wonder.

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You can get DAP collars that are similar to flea collars and good up to a month. The instructions with them don't say anything about them not working outside. We've used them with Gabe, and it's hard to tell if they work or if it's placebo, since we can't test him in that exact situation with vs. without them (first time staying alone with someone else, etc.) but they don't hurt, and they seem to help. I usually order the Adaptil brand from Amazon.

 

We have a basket muzzle that we've done some conditioning on making it a fun-happy-positive experience, but we are just not quite to where I can buckle it on him. We have used the groomer muzzles that keep his mouth closed at the vet, since that's what they have, he needs to be muzzled, and I don't want to take out the basket muzzle before it's associated with happy-good stuff and associate it with scary-bad stuff. He does get significantly easier to manage once the muzzle is on. It could be because I'm more confident, and so is the vet, when he can't bite us, or because he just shuts down/gives up. So I guess it does calm him, but I don't think I'm buying your trainer's "barking revs them up and it escalates etc. etc".

 

You know the blood, sweat, and tears that have gotten you to that point, and you know where you started even if the trainer doesn't. Even if this trainer isn't everything you want, being in this setting with other dogs will give you guys some good practice, and you can go on from there. I think we're starting reactive dog class next week. Hopefully Gabe can handle it!

 

 

-->"barking revs them up and it escalates etc. etc", these were my words, a translation of the very sciency explanation she gave. That said, try having a 'fake argument' with someone you get along with, raise your voice, use angry body language, keep the words silly to avoid accidently slipping in a real insult. For me, it starts out hilarious, but suddenly it becomes very not fun. So I think it's true, and explaines why it's important to keep dogs under threshold as much as possible. So I have to own those words for myself.

 

Basket muzzles; I have always thought these are best for dog when a muzzle is needed for safety or wanted for peace of mind. Groomers muzzles (physically holding a dogs mouth shut) seems like excessive force when one can choose otherwise (as in, remove the dog from the situation, or let them carry-on barking). I don't have a problem with either, depends on the dog and situation, just never heard of it calming a dog. I think the change in behaviour is due to the dog being aware that it has been rendered incapable of defending itself. But maybe enforcing calm behaviour followed by nothing bad happens could help? Just mulling....

When Gabe wears the groomers muzzle in a stress situation, do you see a change in breathing or heart rate that would indicate more or less stress? Or other expressions of more or less stress? Just thinking there must be a way to differentiate between calm behaviour, and a calm dog, maybe not so easy to do, though.

 

Best of luck for your class. Would love to compare and contrast, the timing being so close. Let us know! And I know what you mean by 'hope Gabe can handle it'. I was prepared to go home and do more work on my own if necessary.

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Yes, a new trainer is always a dicey proposition. I'm learning to take what I agree with, or can confirm with others, and leave the rest.

 

The BC stare - yes, dismissive, but as Chris said, YOU know and SONIC knows what kind of work went into that, that's what counts. And, you could have responded with, "I've been working with him for a while now on attention in distracting situations - I like seeing it is paying off!' That gives her more information about you as an owner and your dog as a student. And might get you some external acknowledgement, but don't count on it. Say that out loud so that YOU can acknowledge yourself.

 

The feline version of DAP worked great for my Evil Orange Cat, did nothing I could see for the dog I bought it for. YMMV.

 

Your idea of taking Gabe when he gets over-amped is a good one. I have to do that w/Gibbs in classes that are held indoors. Not a problem at agility, which is in an open field, but the trick training classes I've been taking for the last 3 or 4 months are inside, with 5 other dogs/humans present. He's not reactive, in the barking/lunging sense, but he seems to get a bit anxious - turns his head away from me, won't respond to a cue, etc. I pop outside w/him, let him sniff around and take a couple quick whizzes, and he's good to go for the rest of the class.

 

It sounds like you and Sonic are doing well. keep up the good work!

 

Ruth and Gibbs

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Yes, a new trainer is always a dicey proposition. I'm learning to take what I agree with, or can confirm with others, and leave the rest.

 

The BC stare - yes, dismissive, but as Chris said, YOU know and SONIC knows what kind of work went into that, that's what counts. And, you could have responded with, "I've been working with him for a while now on attention in distracting situations - I like seeing it is paying off!' That gives her more information about you as an owner and your dog as a student. And might get you some external acknowledgement, but don't count on it. Say that out loud so that YOU can acknowledge yourself.

 

The feline version of DAP worked great for my Evil Orange Cat, did nothing I could see for the dog I bought it for. YMMV.

 

Your idea of taking Gabe when he gets over-amped is a good one. I have to do that w/Gibbs in classes that are held indoors. Not a problem at agility, which is in an open field, but the trick training classes I've been taking for the last 3 or 4 months are inside, with 5 other dogs/humans present. He's not reactive, in the barking/lunging sense, but he seems to get a bit anxious - turns his head away from me, won't respond to a cue, etc. I pop outside w/him, let him sniff around and take a couple quick whizzes, and he's good to go for the rest of the class.

 

It sounds like you and Sonic are doing well. keep up the good work!

 

Ruth and Gibbs

Thanks! And owning up to being a total weenie about the 'dismissive' (regarding the bc stare) comment. Sheesh, I should muzzle myself now and again.

I'm good now.

And, yes, I've learned through the years that in class, I need to know my dog, keep an open mind, but be prepared to say 'no' now and again, it's just socially uncomfortable (oops, being a weenie again), but really, the class is good. I have homework, Will share some stuff later.

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Just adding my two bits about the muzzle that physically holds a dog's mouth shut. I dislike them save for medical or safety use, i.e. my dog is going to bite someone. We used to have a corgi-BC rescue who was scared of the vet (and lots of other strangers) for a long while, so he wore a muzzle any time we had to take him in to the vet.

BUT ... it didn't calm him down, it shut him down. He'd just give up and stand there on the table with this stoic, dead-eyed look and not move. It allowed him to get vaccinations, fox tails removed, temp taken and whatnot without risk to the veterinary staff, which was the whole point.

However, I'd darned sure not want to use that kind of muzzle in any sort of situation that required a dog actually, you know, participating in proceedings. ;) The only thing our poor boy wanted while wearing that muzzle was outta there! He has long since passed on of old age but I still have that muzzle in a drawer, just in case. (And FWIW, even if your neighbor's dog had been conditioned to a muzzle, odds are very good that in such levels of pain, he wouldn't have permitted the muzzle no matter how conditioned he might have been.)

So I agree with your preference and instinct to just remove him from the situation for a few moments to calm down. Preventing him from barking by holding his muzzle shut doesn't seem the least calming to me, (they can still make some unholy noises even with their mouths shut, if they really want to,) but walking him away removes the triggers and that helps any dog relax and reset their brains.

My tuppence, anyhow! :)

~ Gloria

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That comment was dismissive, and I can relate to feeling a bit upset by it.

 

Some months ago, talking to a trainer where Tess and I do dockdiving, he was saying it's a big mistake for owners to encourage their dogs to play with other dogs as the dog will come to devalue the relationship with the owner in favour of other dogs. Although subsequently I understood where he was coming from (many pet owners fail to develop a significant relationship with their dogs), my reaction was to say that I've always allowed my dogs to meet and play with other compatible dogs as I feel they need the socialization, and never had a dog that dismissed me for another dog.

 

So he took Tess's leash, asked me to walk 20 steps ahead, asked someone else with a dog to move next to me, some steps to the side. Tess focused on me the whole time, then draged him to me. She showed 0 interest in the other dog, with whom she had just been playing.

 

Then he said, well, it's a bc thing, they're very owner oriented.

 

And that is true, for her anyway. She has tremendous pack drive. her idea of a time well spent is doing stuff with me. But I've also worked A LOT on it, making myself really interesting and fun, and I doubt she would have this attitude otherwise. So it was not that nice, the dismissive tone that basically meant I hadn't much to do with it.

 

I did get over it pretty quickly, but I can relate with feeling a bit dismayed when one knows one has worked hard with the dog.

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FWIW, my Border Collie actually does seem to find mild pressure on his nose to be calming. I taught him to wear a muzzle for vet visits and noticed that he seemed to be far more relaxed when wearing it and has no objection to having it put on.

 

I mentioned it to the veterinary behaviorist we saw and he said its not uncommon, and for such dogs a gentle leader was a good tool for those dogs. We seldom use it, as his meds (thyroid and SSRI), training and simply maturity has reduced his anxiety significantly. Argos is much calmer in most environments and walks politely on a leash, even at the vets.

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Barking itself ramps them up, so stopping the barking will prevent them from getting worse, I guess...

And my own pet peeve : Sonic was completely awesome, attentive, drilling holes in my face with his eyes. It was a culmination of two months of sweat and tears, everything coming together, and what does she say, when I say I'm thrilled that Sonic is so focussed on me ? 'that's just the border collie in him'--blah, would it have killed her to hand me a compliment ???

I think the 'barking can ramp them up' may depend on the dog and situation. I had a reactive dog who went through life fairly under threshold because we live out in the country without a lot of her triggers, and I tried not to expose her to too many triggers when we 'went to town' if we took her with us. [ I liked to take her in the car because she LOVED car rides, but she just couldn't handle it when we had to leave her in the car - even for 5 minutes. And I worked on it A LOT, but never got very far. Nowadays, better training techniques may have helped.] Anyway, back to topic, as she became a senior - 17, 18, 19 years old - she would 'see' something outside (almost blind at the end, but I think she saw distance better than close-up) which would set her off, and she would NOT stop. She could go for 20, 30 or more minutes. And it did seem that the barking would ramp her up. She would get more agitated and just couldn't stop by herself. She often ended up panting and foam around her mouth. We would go in and touch her on her back [just a light tap with a finger - the reset button :-) ], and she would snap out of it. Some of her behavior may have been senior organic brain syndrome though.

 

As far as the dismissive BC comment: I think a lot of people think that BC owners have it easy - because they are so 'smart', therefore they are easy to train --- or they are more athletic -- or they focus better --- or (fill in the blank). I have heard it too at a puppy training class and agility class where another 'classmate' dismissed my dog's accomplishment because he was a BC - so it was 'easier' for me to train him. IMHO, ALL dogs have their challenges, and people who are dismissive of another's accomplishments don't have a deep understanding and appreciation of the complexity and individuality of dog behavior. I am surprised that you heard it from a professional trainer.

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Sounds like there are many positives to the class, personally I think your plan to leave the room is a good one. I would not use the muzzle as it is just masking the problem as the poor dog can't tell you they are upset. That said I have used my hands to gently do the same thing, it is something my dog is used to, mostly I use it when he won't calm down over the doorbell or something upsets him when we are home, and it seems to help get him back to earth and forget about what had upset him.

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Basket muzzles; I have always thought these are best for dog when a muzzle is needed for safety or wanted for peace of mind. Groomers muzzles (physically holding a dogs mouth shut) seems like excessive force when one can choose otherwise (as in, remove the dog from the situation, or let them carry-on barking). I don't have a problem with either, depends on the dog and situation, just never heard of it calming a dog. I think the change in behaviour is due to the dog being aware that it has been rendered incapable of defending itself. But maybe enforcing calm behaviour followed by nothing bad happens could help? Just mulling....

When Gabe wears the groomers muzzle in a stress situation, do you see a change in breathing or heart rate that would indicate more or less stress? Or other expressions of more or less stress? Just thinking there must be a way to differentiate between calm behaviour, and a calm dog, maybe not so easy to do, though.

 

Best of luck for your class. Would love to compare and contrast, the timing being so close. Let us know! And I know what you mean by 'hope Gabe can handle it'. I was prepared to go home and do more work on my own if necessary.

 

We've only used the groomer's muzzle at the vet, and I agree that I'd only use that in a necessary situation. He's a bite risk at the vet, and we can get through it with good muzzling and a lot of me doing the handling. But this...

 

 

BUT ... it didn't calm him down, it shut him down. He'd just give up and stand there on the table with this stoic, dead-eyed look and not move. It allowed him to get vaccinations, fox tails removed, temp taken and whatnot without risk to the veterinary staff, which was the whole point.

 

 

 

I think that's a little more of what's going on. Most of our "after visit summaries" include his description as "presents as aggressive, lunging and barking" then I muzzle him and he just kind of stops and I grab him and pull him into my lap and we get the exam done. He doesn't even attempt to turn towards the vet or do anything that would look like a bite attempt if he didn't have a muzzle. I don't think he's calm and I can usually feel his heart just about jumping out of his chest, but everyone's safe and he gets the medical care he needs. Additionally, I feel like we're partnering with our vet more, because she trusts me to keep her and her staff safe, and she knows I have a pretty realistic view of what my dog is, and what I need to do to keep other people safe around him.

 

I'd love to compare/contrast notes on how your class is going! I do some work for our trainers, so Gabe took the regular "Level One Obedience" class with non-reactive dogs, and did pretty well, but he's another one that reacts worse to reactive dogs, so I think being around other reactive dogs will be a way bigger challenge. We're skipping right to "Dogs with Attitude 2", since DWA 1 is mostly learning the coping techniques like look, touch, u-turns, etc. that in theory he knows (well he knows, but has a hard time around other reactive dogs) and then level 2 will be a "field trip" based class.

 

 

As far as the dismissive BC comment: I think a lot of people think that BC owners have it easy - because they are so 'smart', therefore they are easy to train --- or they are more athletic -- or they focus better --- or (fill in the blank). I have heard it too at a puppy training class and agility class where another 'classmate' dismissed my dog's accomplishment because he was a BC - so it was 'easier' for me to train him. IMHO, ALL dogs have their challenges, and people who are dismissive of another's accomplishments don't have a deep understanding and appreciation of the complexity and individuality of dog behavior. I am surprised that you heard it from a professional trainer.

 

I think people really don't have a good understanding of the complexity of dog behavior, and all of the things that go into it. All of those BC qualities that make them trainable, like being smart, and athletic, and good at focusing, come in a package that make them not that easy too. Having a dog with the brains to be that smart and do all of those things means you have a dog whose brain you need to challenge, and I don't think people always understand that. I'm also surprised you heard this from a professional trainer, who I would really hope knows and understands that.

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My trainer says the barking ramps them up (so on so on) however her technique to fix this issue was to begin obsessively (ie think in every scenario and environment) teaching him the que of "quiet" through the use of the fact that dogs cannot bark unless their nose is in the air... So we practice by throwing many treats on the ground while saying "quiet".... Sniffing is a calming action in dogs so this is a two fold technique because he is conditioned to begin sniffing to find the treats (which calms) and putting his head down (which makes it impossible to bark) every time I say "quiet". She uses a harness/ muzzle/ leaders as the very very last resort.

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Okay, homework.

Teaching front, call dog to sit in front.

Stay, start working on a stay.

Focus. Dog in heel position, watch/focus on handler

Leave it, start with treats leave it.

Breath: (this is the one I've never heard of before, so will describe). Get a smelly treat, let the dog sniff/smell it, reward for breathing in. Should result in a calming exercise that can be down in the real world.

Muzzles: I will be buying a groomers muzzle (probably a dollar store one) for conditioning. I do think it's a good idea to have a dog familiar with these for emergencies. I can think of a scenario, camping, strange place, something happens, strange vet, maybe not good with scared dogs, and they hand you a groomers muzzle, so yes, it's a good exercise for any dog, not just a reactive dog, just like crate training a dog even if they don't need to be crated--emergency, it's great.

Muzzles to calm: keeping an open mind. Sounds like, for the most part, they are just necessary sometimes and you do what you have to do, but also will keep an open mind about using it to calm, but only after he's been thoroughly conditioned to like in peaceful times, who knows. Sometimes quick thoughtful experiments are worth doing.

 

The BC thingie comment, hmmm...sounds common enough, so I'll get over myself on that one--BUT, I always considered a BC an advanced dog, not a beginner dog. I was mighty proud of getting Dynamo, my high drive (possibly working line) german shepherd trained up to niceness, and I consider border collies equally serious (but very different) dogs, so again, would never have thought of them as 'easy' to train, and think of them as dogs for experienced owners or for people who like jumping into the deep end (just like a nice high drive shepherd) so maybe that's what took me by surprise. Now I'll be prepared to for it. Anything good he does, 'oh, that's because he's a bc...'

Reminds, off topic, but apt... last night at art class, during break, we walk around and look at other peoples work. One artist to another, 'that's some really beautiful paper you have there....' (that probably didn't feel too good either, I imagine)

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I think the trainer made a huge mistake forgetting that we (the owners of reactive dogs) at the point of a "reactivity" class are in need of just as much confidence boosting as the dogs!!

Yes. Trainers often do this to people. Mine was the least of it. There was an entire family there with a white shepherd that could not handle being in the same room, so they were stuck behind the partition. They probably were feeling lousy about that, but instead of encouragement, or a clear invitation for anyone not actively handling the dog to enter the main space, she admonished them for not paying attention. I'm starting to wonder what I liked about her 13 years ago? Maybe it was just a bad day, maybe reactive dog class is pretty tense for the trainer too (okay, is tense, not maybe is tense), and again, overall, a good class to be in, learning things. I do hope the white shepherd family comes back, though. It's gotta suck to be stuck in the 'bad dog room' no matter how necessary the placement is.

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My trainer says the barking ramps them up (so on so on) however her technique to fix this issue was to begin obsessively (ie think in every scenario and environment) teaching him the que of "quiet" through the use of the fact that dogs cannot bark unless their nose is in the air... So we practice by throwing many treats on the ground while saying "quiet".... Sniffing is a calming action in dogs so this is a two fold technique because he is conditioned to begin sniffing to find the treats (which calms) and putting his head down (which makes it impossible to bark) every time I say "quiet". She uses a harness/ muzzle/ leaders as the very very last resort.

Oooh, that sounds like a variation (a much easier variation) of the 'breath' exercise we're supposed to do. Thanks.

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Yes. Trainers often do this to people. Mine was the least of it. There was an entire family there with a white shepherd that could not handle being in the same room, so they were stuck behind the partition. They probably were feeling lousy about that, but instead of encouragement, or a clear invitation for anyone not actively handling the dog to enter the main space, she admonished them for not paying attention. I'm starting to wonder what I liked about her 13 years ago? Maybe it was just a bad day, maybe reactive dog class is pretty tense for the trainer too (okay, is tense, not maybe is tense), and again, overall, a good class to be in, learning things. I do hope the white shepherd family comes back, though. It's gotta suck to be stuck in the 'bad dog room' no matter how necessary the placement is.

Lol speaking of ...today I was signing up for more one on one classes for wicks reactivity and I noticed our trainer seemed a little stressed while carrying this huge piece of cardboard I offered to help and she just ignored me, I thought to myself "weird wonder what that's for and she seems a bit short with me today" low and behold she says while we finally get to talk that she's doing a reactive dog class next :) ... The cardboard was the partition... so yeah I think maybe it's stressful on the whole lot of us!!! Haha I bet by your last couple of classes when all the dogs (and humans) are "getting it" things will be much happier.

 

You should be very proud of yourself and sonic, that is such a huge step and it sounds like with that focus you worked on so much you will have smooth sailing through the course :)

 

You can always work on other stuff at home too (haha just kidding bc the homework they give us is PLENTY!!!) just wait until you show up and people (like myself) accidentally forgot to practice all week... Then you'll see a really stressed trainer....

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I'm actually assisting my trainer with a reactive dog class. As someone who has worked with three different groups of reactive dogs now, I agree it is a very stressful class compared to the others I'm assisting with. However it is also rewarding when the owner does their homework and their dog makes big steps. The last class when they get their 'test' it's a great feeling when the tools you shared are getting used and helping the owners be successful.

 

It's easy for non-BC owners to assume that it's the breed not the trainer. When we are all very aware it's a combination of things falling perfectly into place. I know several non-BC owning agility people who tried to tell me that my dog was only doing well at our last trial because it's a border collie, completely ignoring the fact we were the only team getting Qs consistently. There were other BCs doing poorly, so saying it's just the breed and not my hard work felt like an insult. Although in hindsight I think it was just their frustration with not doing well that made them think I had a magic breed that just magically does well.

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  • 2 weeks later...
2nd Class :


We had Easter break, and then Class #2.

The family with the shepherd is back, and they are working with him in the other room, so I'm glad their back, and hoping, thinking, that maybe the training gave them some 1 on 1 help.


So it's 3 reactive dogs in a small room and 1 (aggressive?) dog behind glass & low barrier.


This time around, there was more barking from the other 3 (yep, that means Sonic too). It seemed like everyone was setting each other off, but we were also doing more movement exercises, and the dogs seemed more comfortable/animated than before, so I'm not sure what to make of that. More barking is bad, right ? As in 'over threshold' but the dogs seemed more 'into' their obedience/paying happy attention to their handlers between episodes.


And that's how it went for Sonic. He seemed a little overwhelmed/freaked when everbody started up at once (including him) and we 'comforted' him, but he seemed afraid of getting hit by us too when we moved in. I think once the lunge sequence happens, it all gets a bit physical. On the other hand, he settled quick, and he was super into getting treats, paying attention, tricks (he only has one trick but it's good one), and for the first time ever played tug with me in the presence of dogs.


Me, I felt pretty overwhelmed, so I didn't come away happy, but when we got home, Sonic was excited but in a happy way (into training and treats), and wanted to play tug indoors (another rare occurrance). So if the class got him revved up, it seemed be channelled into goodness.


There's only 2 classes to go. My main concern, from the very start, is, 'is it a good idea to put a bunch of reactive dogs into the same room together ? ' and all that serial barking where one dog sets off the others is part of it. On the other hand, if he can handle these dogs, he stands a better chance of learning to handle barking, crazy fenced dogs.


But I am worried that he doesn't get much exposure to low key friendly dogs. I've been to the dog park a few times (to work at whatever is a comfortable distance) but the weather has turned nasty and it's mud season, so there have been few to no dogs there, so I just haven't been getting much real world practice.


In my neighbourhood, I have not been taking him to the crazy barking dogs, because they are just too much for him right now (he can't even pay attention when he hears them from a distance as in from home--the husky has a very recognizable routine and I can hear him from home), and the nesting geese are claiming the road. I really don't want to be dealing with nesting geese vs reactive dog-nope, nada. So I have no idea if he's getting better or worse.


I did find out that my driveway makes a good practice place, yay ! He's 'into' training there and really wants to do stuff, and play tug, and it's a transition zone too between home and public, and I can make a quick retreat if goes over threshold (or to prevent that if I'm on the ball).


Other good news, is he seems pretty okay with our neighbours dog, yay, double yay. She's a great dane, and they have her on a tie out (supervised) in the front yard so she can catch fresh air. The bonus is, she's getting used to me and Sonic so they are both barking less or none. I was out practicing yesterday, and Hannah was out. Sonic was good with that. Hannah woofed at me, so I talked to Hannah and she was good with that. It only broke all down when Sonic saw a dog down the street, that was too much. (I had ventured up another street when we saw the strange dog, which is what made things awkward).


Summer's coming, and people will be out, so hopefully I'll get some practice opportunities. Right now, I'm having zero luck figuring out where to find good practice opportunities (predictable dogs, controllable distances) where I can work under threshold, but my driveway may not be a bad place, as I can retreat.


So that's the update.


You are all awesome, and very helpful, and it's just nice to be able to talk about this, thanks for listening.

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Homework, Wk 1:

Stays

Recall with Front

Leave it/Take it

Breath

Watch/Focus

Settle/Easy

U-turns from triggers (pre-threshold)

 

Wk 2:

Recall with Front

Finish-Swing

Finish-Around

Focus

Moving Attention (focus while handler moves)

Long line recalls

Touch (touch the hand to direct the dogs head/gaze)

Stays (30 second stays)

 

That's the homework, but for me, I'm realizing Sonic needs to go back a few steps. He needs to learn to follow the lure with confidence. I've finally realized I never taught him that, I just expected it to come naturally, and sometimes it does, other times he hesitates or backs off. So I think I will be a bad student and concentrate on making following the lure fun (high rate of success for tiny movements) so that I can get things back on track.

 

Can't do touch (touch the hand) because for mysterious reasons, this one freaks him out, hates it. So that's a definite pass until I can figure out what exactly scares him an eliminate it. He does LAT (Look at That) very well, it will have to do.

 

So hopefully I won't get chewed out for not doing my homework, but if so, better me than the dog.

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For touch is it both the palm and back of the hand? Just in case you hadn't already though of this, try the back of your hand or a 'target' like a coaster or small lid.

Will try the back of the hand then. I think 'soft' hand too, fingers curled soft? What would look the least like I'm about to hit him with my hand, as I think that may be the crux of this specific problem, and maybe part of all the food/treat training problems I have. I didn't try the lid because I was thinking I already cart too many things with me on a walk and this is supposed to be for walks, but it would be a transitional thing to start, right? And if the lid works, at least it looks like homework. Egads, I feel ten years old with this...

Thanks.

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Yes, because the lid could start somewhere other than your hand and then move to your hand and bridge a gap then you can start fading it out. Just some things to try.

 

I also have an anxious dog and when I first got her my open hand was very scary, but the back of my hand was easier for her. Palms of hands relaxed or not are very intimidating to some dogs, but it could work. However if the issue is hands in general a lid is a good place to start.

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