Hard to Choose

[Schaferhunde AKA Sheepdog]

http://herdaboutshelties.com/Puppies_CurrentLitters.htm

 

http://www.jusdandy.com/

 

Both kennels have Sheltie Puppies available,& both do conformation & Herding/Agility.

I haven't found any health tests for Just Dandy Shelties,but maybe I didn't look hard enough.

 

We're more focused on a agility dog, then herding dog,though we also plan on doing herding.I want a genetically sound Sheltie(because the breeds know to be fearful, if not properly bred), & is also free from (tested) genetic problems.

May I mention, we Also have a three year old cat

 

Saying that, which breeder should I purchase from?

Which do you prefer(& why)?

[Oko]

I don't know anything about sheltie breeders, but as for the one who you said you couldn't find information about health testing on their website, why don't you just contact them and ask if they do health testing?

[geonni banner]

If I were in the market for a Shetland Sheepdog I'd choose the "JusDandy" breeder, between these two. Because there does seem to be at least some stock work going on. I'd like to see more pics/videos of their dogs on stock - more than ducks.

 

I'm not thrilled about the conformation aspect of the kennel and they have a few more litters than I'm comfortable with.

 

I'd probably keep looking for someone with less litters and more actual stock work with their dogs.

[bcnewe2]

I have met Claudia Frank on several different occasions. She is a serious competitor but does both AKC and I think USBCHA with her border collies.

She trains with Mark Christopher, you'll get lots of opinions on him.

Claudia would be someone I would buy a dog from, either border collie or Sheltie if I had the inkling to stray from my chosen breed. I think she's a responsible person and would be the same with breeding her dogs.

Give her a call, ask questions, I'm sure she'd be happy to respond.

[workindogs]

I don't know much about shelties but merle breeding practices have been discussed AT LENGTH on this Board. It appears that JusDandy has twice bred to this dog "Oreo" (aka Shadow Hills Polaris)....and apparently condones the practice of double merle breeding.

 

EDITED: Here is the thread to the prior discussion of another double merle sire Vinnie as well as this dog, Oreo:

 

BOB Collie at Westminster sired by a double merle

Edited December 14, 2012 by workindogs

[rushdoggie]

IMO, any puppy breeder who has an overly controlling contract that voids all health guarantees if you feed a different diet or don't get yearly vaccinations is one I would steer clear of. If JusDandy does advocate merle/merle breeding I would steer clear of them too.

[G. Festerling]

There is a few ladies that have some jam up little shelties around here that they herd and do agility with I think. Nice dogs. If you are interested I can try to get more info.

[Sue R]

...It appears that JusDandy has twice bred to this dog "Oreo" (aka Shadow Hills Polaris)....and apparently condones the practice of double merle breeding.

If deliberately doing even one double merle breeding or using a double merle sire/dam (a dog produced by a deliberate double merle breeding) was practiced by *any* breeder, then I would not even consider purchasing an animal from them. I don't care whatever other things that breeder might do *right*.

[waffles]

If deliberately doing even one double merle breeding or using a double merle sire/dam (a dog produced by a deliberate double merle breeding) was practiced by *any* breeder, then I would not even consider purchasing an animal from them. I don't care whatever other things that breeder might do *right*.

 

 

"Oreo a double merle and a top producer in the Shadow Hills Kennel of Jane Hammett. He and his relatives can be viewed at her web site http://www.shadowhillshelties.com/shelties/boys/oreo.html. Oreo is very outgoing and has sired some excellent dogs in all dog venues. "

 

Directly from the JusDandy site. :blink:/>

They apparently do a lot of deliberate double merle breeding. :(/>

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

 

I know Claudia Frank personally. One of her shelties won a USBCHA (arena) trial competing against Border Collies. I have corresponded with Linda Rorem and she has an excellent reputation.

 

If I were looking for a shetland sheepdog they are the first two I would contact.

 

Donald McCaig

[Schaferhunde AKA Sheepdog]

I don't know anything about sheltie breeders, but as for the one who you said you couldn't find information about health testing on their website, why don't you just contact them and ask if they do health testing?

 

I emailed them already, got no reply back yet.Since some members on here actually know her in person,they may able to provide information if Claudia Frank test on her dogs.

[Schaferhunde AKA Sheepdog]

Dear Doggers,

 

 

I know Claudia Frank personally. One of her shelties won a USBCHA (arena) trial competing against Border Collies. I have corresponded with Linda Rorem and she has an excellent reputation.

 

If I were looking for a shetland sheepdog they are the first two I would contact.

 

Donald McCaig

 

I'm wary of Claudia Frank, although some of you met her in person, it worries me deliberate breeds Merle to Merle(which can cause genetic defaults. I'll have to look more into this weekend, so far I'm like the first kennel.Some people here say I should purchase A Sheltie from her, while others do.

[workindogs]

JusDandy might be a wonderful person and raise her pups right, but merle coloration appears to be a big factor in her breeding program. Not only has she bred to a double merle stud (thereby insuring all pups merle), every single one of the 12 litters listed produced merle puppies.

 

I know nothing about the other breeder....but you can tell that merle figures much less in the breeding program. There could be other issues that make one breeder better than another, but JusDandy is most definitely breeding for merle color.

[Schaferhunde AKA Sheepdog]

JusDandy might be a wonderful person and raise her pups right, but merle coloration appears to be a big factor in her breeding program. Not only has she bred to a double merle stud (thereby insuring all pups merle), every single one of the 12 litters listed produced merle puppies.

 

I know nothing about the other breeder....but you can tell that merle figures much less in the breeding program. There could be other issues that make one breeder better than another, but JusDandy is most definitely breeding for merle color.

 

 

She does do health testing on some of her dogs,which Is big plus. I like both breeders, I'm debating which I should get. It seems the other breed is more focused on the dogs health,they do many health tests, but not as much Agility & Herding trails.

[juliepoudrier]

If you prefer Claudia's dogs because the does more activities with her dogs, maybe a compromise would be to get a pup from a litter NOT bred to a double merle sire. That's what I'd do: tell her I want a pup but I can't support her support (by breeding to him) of another person's breeding of a double merle. This assumes, of course, that you aren't seeking a merle puppy. Otherwise, I have to agree that her tacit approval (by breeding to the result) of another's intentional breeding of a double merle would make me stay away (and I have met Claudia at USBCHA trials and think she's nice, but the whole merle breeding thing really bothers me). Because the color is popular, people are apparently willing to turn a blind eye to the whole double merle thing. I wonder what became of the other pups in the litter that the stud dog was part of? I might ask that too.

 

J.

[bcnewe2]

I really know nothing of her merle to merle breedings nor any of her breeding practices. I have seen her border collies and like them. I pick my dogs by watching how parents work and how they are doing on and off the trial field, if I have to, it might be only on the trial field but I'd rather see more than just that. I pay attention to pups out of same lines and same way bred.

The times I have seen Claudia's dogs working, I can say I was impressed. I also think she is a very strict handler (the Marc Christopher way) so part of what I like might be her handling, not that I am a fan of over handling but if it's in small arena's I think that's part of the game. I have also seen her dogs in a bigger field (not to big) and I again liked what I saw.

 

I like testing as much as the next guy but if I see dogs I like that haven't been tested and I can see dogs that are related doing well out there, I don't always need to see the sort of testing some people want.

 

As far as merle to merle breedings...well I'm going to defer my knowledge on JusDandy breedings as I don't know anything about her personal breeding practices. I still say, if I liked a particular dog she had and was breeding I would make more inquiries about the dog I was particularly interested in.

 

So....that's my take and I think I'm in the same boat with Donald, at least about Claudia and her dogs.

[bcnewe2]

It seems the other breed is more focused on the dogs health,they do many health tests, but not as much Agility & Herding trails.

 

 

I'm not defending Claudia over the other breeder except to add all the health tests in the world can't fix poor breeding choices. Although I have no idea who the other breeder is so this is a blanket statement, not one directed at that breeder, I didn't even look at the links provided. I only gave my opinion of Claudia and her dogs because I have seen them on numerous occasions.

I'd be more apt to choose on what I see in the dogs that are being bred. Or looking at previous litters to see what sort of issues have popped up.

Health tests don't make for smart dogs, smart breeding choices and informed buyers do. JMHO

[Schaferhunde AKA Sheepdog]

I'm not defending Claudia over the other breeder except to add all the health tests in the world can't fix poor breeding choices. Although I have no idea who the other breeder is so this is a blanket statement, not one directed at that breeder, I didn't even look at the links provided. I only gave my opinion of Claudia and her dogs because I have seen them on numerous occasions.

I'd be more apt to choose on what I see in the dogs that are being bred. Or looking at previous litters to see what sort of issues have popped up.

Health tests don't make for smart dogs, smart breeding choices and informed buyers do. JMHO

 

Sorry,about the statement, I do indeed want the breeder to do smart choices,I do wan them to do work there dogs,& prove them that they can do so.

[bcnewe2]

I was not making a statement about you, I was more stating my opinion on health testing and why it isn't the only thing one should base their choices on.

[Cynthia P]

I know Claudia only through reputation. I don't know Herdaway. I looked at both websites and the one thing I didn't like on the Herdaway was their stance on classes with dogs that are raw fed. NO raw fed allowed. Personally if I was to take a class with them I just wouldn't tell them. I don't think their reasoning is sound.

 

Also I did not see anything at all on working their dogs on sheep or ducks. None of the dogs even have a HIT or JHD that I could find.

 

I had friends with working shelties and I sure liked them a lot more than the non working ones I met. The other person you could contact in Ontario is Sue Jewell, she works Shelties as well as her border collies. PM if you want her address

 

Cynthia

[border_collie_crazy]

not a fan of the contract with that first one either, everythimng is null and viod if the puppy does not recieve YEARLY Rabies and Booster(a practice not only pointless and dangerous, but many vets wont even DO anymore...) but the health guarentee against GENETIC problems becomes null and void if the dog is ever fed a raw diet of any kind? thats a MAJOR turn off for me.

[MommaLove]

The woman who owns the training centre we go to has three Herdabout Shelties and they are AMAZING dogs. All three are agility & obedience dogs and have plenty of titles.

 

I was, once upon a time, considering getting a Sheltie (ended up with Juno instead, thank goodness!) and would have purchased from Herdabout, but was bothered by the stance against raw feeding and non-vaxxing. Otherwise, I really like them.

[mum24dog]

IMO, any puppy breeder who has an overly controlling contract that voids all health guarantees if you feed a different diet or don't get yearly vaccinations is one I would steer clear of. If JusDandy does advocate merle/merle breeding I would steer clear of them too.

 

I can understand a breeder not wanting their buyers to take chances with the health of the pups that they produce but any attempt at control after they have pocketed the cash should at least be well informed and up to date.

 

I do have my dogs boostered annually and I don't feed raw but I wouldn't want to sign away my right to change my mind. And threatening to void health guarantees on flimsy grounds suggests to me that they aren't worth much. Would such an unfair contract term even be legal where you are?

 

The Herdaway people seem really strange from their web site and the fact of the name itself when herding is absent from their list of achievements would put me off.

 

As for anyone who would even consider a merle - merle breeding, why would anyone claiming to produce dogs that can work (or any dog for that matter) ever think that was OK? Anyone who would do that has completely the wrong priorities.

 

Hypothetically (since I only ever rescue), if I were looking to buy another agility dog of any breed I would shy away from anyone who even hints at conformation showing.

[mum24dog]

The woman who owns the training centre we go to has three Herdabout Shelties and they are AMAZING dogs. All three are agility & obedience dogs and have plenty of titles.

 

I would hope that she would know something about training and turning out amazing dogs is more about the handling than genetics where agility and obedience are concerned.

 

An excellent trainer can take a dog from virtually any background and beat the pants of an indifferent trainer with the best bred dog in the world. I've seen it so many times - people buy because of the titles on show and fail to deliver the goods. Genetics are no guarantee of success.

[Schaferhunde AKA Sheepdog]

I appericate all the answers! Where going to be looking into different breeders, soon.