Laurelin Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Joy. I went to check out some pet store I heard sold EVO and was a lot closer than the feed store I go to. I think it may be worth a look since it'd be a lot more convenient... I walk in and see puppies in pens. Of course instead of walking out, I get curious and start looking around. There are pekapoos, little dogs of all sorts, typical. Then I see these two larger pups wrestling. They're particolor- one red and white and the other black and white and wavy-haired. I think 'oh surely not'... Yup. The sign- 'Borderdoodles- $800' and under it 'Standard Poodle/Border Collie'. Wth? I guess they're marketing them to the allergic farmers? Anyways, and almost as amusing were these two just plain massive puppies in the pen next to them. I mean, they were HUGE, probably 50 pounds and pretty young. They were brindle and white and wirehaired with long noses- looked a lot like brindle and white irish spotted irish wolfhound pups were that possible. The funny thing? They were labeled as Bostipoos- Boston Terrier/Miniature poodle mixes. I feel for whoever gets scammed into one of those. Those dogs had little to no boston OR miniature poodle in them. SO then I went to the feed store and bought some canned food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 OHHHHH...SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 ..... I just don't even know what to say..... That makes me sad and angry at the same time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan B Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Hi Laurelin, I just noticed that you have a papillon and wanted to let you know that I've bred, owned, trained and competed with papillons for 30 years. I still have my 3 retired agility papillons plus I now own 2 Border collies. I compete in pro-novice with a 3 year old male and am training a younger bitch for trialing. Both of the Border collies are from working lines and get along great with my paps and are so easy to live with. Jan Berger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Got you beat....just saw CKC registered Mastiff and Great Pyranees (Masypr?) pups advertised on the vet supply notice board. "The Ultimate Family Guard Dog" I kid you not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurelin Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 --> QUOTE(Jan B @ Jan 14 2009, 05:50 PM) 278464[/snapback] Hi Laurelin,I just noticed that you have a papillon and wanted to let you know that I've bred, owned, trained and competed with papillons for 30 years. I still have my 3 retired agility papillons plus I now own 2 Border collies. I compete in pro-novice with a 3 year old male and am training a younger bitch for trialing. Both of the Border collies are from working lines and get along great with my paps and are so easy to live with. Jan Berger It's great to meet you and hear you have both breeds! I've had a lot of papillons and am planning a future border collie for the next dog. I know a lot of people who have had both and I think the two breeds compliment each other well. I'm definitely going either rescue or working lines for a bc. We've had shelties for years but they're just not the right breed for me. I'm a little disappointed that I still have to drive in to the city to pick up food. I was hoping it'd be a good place because to top it off, the vet next door practices on exotics too, which I need since I have a chinchilla. Of course I'd rather drive longer to not support those people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Don't presume size based on the pedigrees of the parentage. Perhaps you are familiar with "Ligers" (the product of mating a male lion and a female tiger). While the parents are in the 5-6 foot and 400-600 pound range, a Liger can grow to 10+ feet and weigh well over 1,000 pounds; the fact that the offspring is so much bigger than the parents has something to do with hybridization and the fact that growth-limiting genes are contributed by the male in tigers and the female in lions, and thus are not present in the Liger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea4th Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I know that a lot of mastiff type dogs are crossed with each other by those doing protection work, for the "ultimate" protection dog, bandogs. An example of breeds used to go into these crosses are: APBT's, Neo, Boerboels, Corso's, and numerous other types of mastiffs. Although I can't imagine having a dog like this myself --- that's a lotta dog ---- those who do this, do it carefully, and most of these dogs are proven before they're bred. None are registered with CKC. I don't think that any reputable breeder of anything would want to advertise "CKC registered. They just pretty much lump them into the category of "Bandogs". No cutesy, catchy names to sell to Joe Publick! I've seen Neo's in the AKC conformation ring. They are monstrosities - a compilation of physical exaggerations. Then I've seen working Neo's --- what a difference. So these bandog folks don't want any sort of conformation affiliation either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea4th Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Don't presume size based on the pedigrees of the parentage. Perhaps you are familiar with "Ligers" (the product of mating a male lion and a female tiger). So then, Bustopher, a Tiglon would be a mating between a male tiger and female lion? Just curious. There used to be a guy here in NE Ohio who bred them -- but that was years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachdogz Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 'Borderdoodles- $800' and under it 'Standard Poodle/Border Collie'. Somebody needs to explain this to me, and I have wondered about it for years. So people just breed two purebred dogs and give them a combo name and then charge a ridiculous amount of money for them??? And some people call these "designer dogs"???? I just don't get it. My neighbor who lets her lab run at large all the time - even in season - had her bitch come up pregnant AGAIN last spring. They had the puppies DNA tested, and lo and behold...they came back "labradoodles". Just happens there's a standard poodle down the road. So they were so excited to have "labradoodles" (I call them mixed breeds) and they kept a boy. I only found out via the grapevine. She used to tell me all this stuff, but I think got tired of hearing the lectures (spay your dog, stop breeding your dog, contain your dog, etc. etc.), however, she had to go away over Christmas and boarded with me...and first thing she said was, "I had my girl spayed." So I of course asked, "And is your boy neutered?" Her face got red. "No"... lecture number 105. So I am angry that people deliberately breed two dogs of different breeds, give it a title, and then sell them as a "designer dog" But I am also curious as to WHY someone is so stupid as to pay that much money for a mixed breed when you can get plenty for a small fee at the local shelter???? Can anyone explain any of this to me??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurelin Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Don't presume size based on the pedigrees of the parentage. Perhaps you are familiar with "Ligers" (the product of mating a male lion and a female tiger). While the parents are in the 5-6 foot and 400-600 pound range, a Liger can grow to 10+ feet and weigh well over 1,000 pounds; the fact that the offspring is so much bigger than the parents has something to do with hybridization and the fact that growth-limiting genes are contributed by the male in tigers and the female in lions, and thus are not present in the Liger. I've seen that with labradoodles but have a hard time believing two small breeds could produce a dog that is going to be 100 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 For "F" sakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.L. Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'm glad you went to the feed store, even though it is a longer drive. Kudos to you for not supporting the closer store who is selling these dogs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Bustopher, lions and tigers are different species. Border Collies and Poodles are all just dogs. Given that I've never met a Standard Poodle I'd want to take home (or remain in the vicinity of for more than five minutes for that matter) I guess all it could do is improve the Poodle. I've given up being upset by designer mutts. I just can't handle being that pissed off all the time. Most breeds we consider "pet" breeds are just variations on a theme anyway and really, there is no point to most of them. I am more upset by irresponsible breeding in general than I am specifically upset about the production of doodles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet_ceana Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 So if your dog is pregnant by a poodle, does that mean she's been doodled? ---sorry, I couldn't resist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurelin Posted January 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 So if your dog is pregnant by a poodle, does that mean she's been doodled? ---sorry, I couldn't resist Or poo'd. I've noticed it's usually poo if it's small and doodle if it's big. why is that? I try not to let it bother me and it really shouldn't surprise me, but that was a new one today. I have seen a lot of weird mixes being sold as the new designer breed but never anything quite like this. I can understand labradoodles as guide dogs but just can't fathom the purpose of a borderdoodle. I guess though that purpose is in the eye of the beholder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 A somewhat good friend of mine learned that Jade hadn't been spayed, and her first comment was "Wow! Too bad Sam is neutered we could get some cute puppies out of the two of them!" Okay... Sam is a (Lassie) Collie that she bought at a horse auction for $20. He's Amish bred (read: garbage? ridiculously poor breeding?) Not to mention that we'd get a bunch of puppies with no purpose or future... I was shocked when she made that comment too- she was totally not joking either. Or poo'd. I've noticed it's usually poo if it's small and doodle if it's big. why is that? That's a good point... never thought of that! Maybe it's because 'poo' is easier for the soccer moms and sorority girls to say/remember than 'doodle' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 But I am also curious as to WHY someone is so stupid as to pay that much money for a mixed breed when you can get plenty for a small fee at the local shelter???? Can anyone explain any of this to me??? I think there are a lot of first time dog owners being sold the "sporty" non allergenic dog!! No one tells them they are nuttier than fruitcakes and very hard to train. Not to mention they have very hard to maintain coats that often feel like acrylic carpets. There are so many of them owned by city dwellers, told the dogs are bred from miniature poodles and they will be med/smaller sized dogs. I haven't seen one under 65 lbs. yet. I know three people who have bought goldendoodles or labradoodles at only $1500.00 a pop! Very sad. Flyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea4th Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I know three people who have bought goldendoodles or labradoodles at only $1500.00 a pop!Very sad. Flyer A jacked up price tag makes them more appealing to Joe Publick as well. A dog that costs 1500.00 compared to one that costs, say, 400.00, has got to be better than a lesser priced dog. That's common knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhereinusa Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 He's Amish bred (read: garbage? ridiculously poor breeding?) I find this to be uncalled for and just plain uninformed. I have know some very fine Amish Border Collie people. They had very fine dogs who could put many of the dogs on this board to shame. The breeding was done carefully and with much thought. One young man did compete at a few of our trials and did quite well with a number of his dogs, even winning some open trials. The elders made him quit for a number of reasons, I think mainly the "competition" part. I would say that there are a higher percentage of "English" breeders than Amish. IE; any two fools with a male and a female of any two breeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphys mom Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 He's Amish bred (read: garbage? ridiculously poor breeding?) Not to mention that we'd get a bunch of puppies with no purpose or future... I was shocked when she made that comment too- she was totally not joking either. You're pushing some buttons with that one. I have an Amish bred BC and I can assure you he's not garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I apologize... I don't mean to push any buttons or step on any toes with that, but in my experience a lot of Amish bred dogs I've come into contact with are not well bred. I certainly don't think if this collie was well bred the guy would have been selling him for a measly $20- that's my point. This particular dog is a conformational nightmare as well. I have also heard that there are a number of Amish people who run puppy mills. I certainly don't mean that all Amish bred critters are garbage or have poor breeding. Again, I'm sorry... I really don't mean to stir anything up or hurt any feelings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 So then, Bustopher, a Tiglon would be a mating between a male tiger and female lion? Yes, a Tigon (sometimes also called a Tiglon) is a cross between a male tiger and a female lion. Tigons are not nearly as large as Ligers. In fact, Tigons are often times smaller than both of their parents, as they carry the growth-limiting gene from both species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esox Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I don't understand this designer dog craze. If there is not one single dog breed that attracts you, I'm sure there is a Heinz 57 at a shelter that is exactly what you want. I also remember reading somewhere that someone was breeding a Newfoundland/Border Collie mix. Why? Esox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haleigh Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I also remember reading somewhere that someone was breeding a Newfoundland/Border Collie mix. Why? Yeah, I think I read something on here about that. Don't get me wrong, the newf/bc's are cute, and I'm sure borderdoodles (or border-poos, ) are quite cute from the unknowing dog owner POV, but I don't see what the craze is. Not the concerned border collie owner craze, but why would someone want to pay 800 for a shelter dog? I think it's what it usually is in America. People are A) ignorant or greedy. This isn't to say that ALL doodle and poo breeders are ignorant or greedy, since I know of a few who are actually promoting the 'breed' for what it is, and not going overboard with litters..etc. There are still many doodle breeders who go oh hell, the public is going insane over my hypo-allergenic labs! Let's sell them for 800 bucks even though they're worth half as much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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