Help needed with BC/Black Lab mix Marajade - Fostering

[chene]

Thanks for the update, it's great to hear how she's coming along. I just wanted to say that while her becoming a foster failure is totally understandable, don't forget that there are great dog owners out there that would put in the care and effort that you do. Thinking of Kelso, everyone thought he would be a foster failure but when she did find people to adopt him the new home gave him a new start and he grew so much. Just putting that out there. Don't give up on people altogether.

[TDFOSTER]

chene,

Thank you for the kudos on other families. That, in my heart, is what I hope will happen. As much as I love her I would very much like to see her find her special home with people who will love her and devote whatever is needed for her. So thank you for reminding me that there are people out there like that.

 

We will meet with Paula tomorrow night and start on some other work. Now that the weather is turning nice I am hopeful we can really get to work and accomplish some things.

 

Talked with the vet this morning and she was very pleased with what I had to report.

[TDFOSTER]

Well it is official. I am adopting Jade. The Prozac has helped along with the CompuSure but the level of fear she still maintains is huge.

Memorial Day there was an app received from a family that sounded too good to be true. Jade and I set off in the car for a home visit. The family consisted of 6 people in the home- 3 boys aged 14-20 and 1 girl aged 22. Mom is a stay at home mom and they bring someone to the house to stay with the dogs when they have to be gone traveling with the hockey team or vacation.

 

A huge home located on 5 acres and at least 3/4 of an acre was fenced. A full size gym attached to the house, rubberized flooring, 5-6 basketball hoops and nets on the wall to catch hockey pucks. All the boys are involved in hockey. We spent a good 1/2 hour to 3/4 hour outside with Jade trying to get her to connect with the two adults and two of the boys. Then we went inside through the walk out basement straight into a huge game room. I didn't totally understand on the app when it said a full size gym attached. Our next move was to go into this full size gym. Holy smokes. It was awesome. This allowed Jade to be let loose....leash still on...and explore and set her own pace to make friends. THEN even though I had sent them an e-mail from Paula the behaviorist on how to introduce the dogs (they had a beagle mix already)....they didn't follow any part of the plan. The beagle came into the gym on a leash barking and thrashing to get at Jade...to play... and Jade sort of shut down and said no freaking way. I did try walking her around at a distance to see if the beagle could calm his butt down but that was not happening. They came too close and Jade lunged and tried to snark. As Paula keeps telling me...if Jade wanted to bite she would bite and there would be no turning back. She is just telling them to back off. So I sat Jade down and in a circle the family gathered around and allowed Jade to either come up to them or not. We left on a good note.

 

I sent a thank you and told them that we were going to try some Healing Touch and Essential Oils that his wife could attend the session if she would like...even if they decided against Jade. He wrote me and said they were fearful that the transition would be too difficult for them and for Jade. And his wife did not show for the session.

 

I guess I was a little relieved because I was very concerned about the other dog and whether they could contain him enough to allow Jade to not make a mistake and actually bite him.

 

The next Tuesday we met with the Healing Touch therapist and she said that she had some thoughts/vibes on Jade that she received and one of them was that Jade did not want to leave our house that she was comfortable and learning to be a dog. She did not know that I had already made the decision to adopt Jade.

 

Routine is extremely important to Jade and after I saw her at this home visit and it truly would have been a good fit because mom was home, kids were older and she had space...I felt that it is quite possible no one would understand her behavior and where she came from and could cause her more harm without ever realizing that is what they were doing.

 

So that is how I have become Jade's mom!

 

I hope to be able to continue to be a part of this forum as I have learned so much and you all have been so helpful to me and Jade. Without you I might not have made it this far with her.

 

I can tell you that since I have made the decision to keep her we all sense that she is somewhat more relaxed....maybe because we are and maybe because I told her she was staying and she can relax.

 

We still have plenty of work to do as we are going to try and get her to be less stressed about riding in a car and work on trying to get her to be able to come to my work. If something happens to my mom, and she can't be home with Jade, Jade will have to come to work with me as I will not kennel her 5 days a week 10-12 hours per day. That will do her no good.

 

Thanks again everyone for listening. I know this is long but it could be so much longer.

 

Teri

[GentleLake]

Congratulations, Teri. I suspect a lot of us won't really be surprised by this news.

 

I can tell you that since I have made the decision to keep her we all sense that she is somewhat more relaxed....maybe because we are and maybe because I told her she was staying and she can relax.

 

That's not really surprising either. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard similar things from foster homes who've adopted their fosters, or about dogs who've had issues but who've just settled seamlessly into their new homes because now they know they belong there. It's truly amazing what dogs know.

 

I hope we'll continue to get updates about Jade, and I'm hoping that this new found sense of belonging will help her make even more progress with you.

 

Your work with Jade has been an inspiration, Teri.

[Cass C]

I'm very glad that Jade has found her forever home with someone like you who is willing to work with a troubled dog.

[TDFOSTER]

Today Jade had to take a 45 minute ride to work with me and then go to the Vet, have her heart worm/Lyme test and receive her ProHeart Shot. I used the essential oil before we left the house which was stressful because I apparently decided to shut off my alarm and go back to work and I had one hour to get ready, Jade ready, and drive 45 minutes.

 

When we got to the vet she was really stressed, cowering, panting, drooling, whining, laying down with her back to me towards the door as we waited to get checked in. There was another little min pin ahead of us and I don’t know if that is what caused the whining but I think so. We got checked in. She has lost 5 pounds since January. They came out, took her back and drew the blood for the heart worm/Lyme test and brought her back to me. She did really well with them. By the time the 15 minutes had passed waiting for the results before they gave her the shot, she finally just laid down and relaxed. When they came out to get her, she went willingly. It was so good to see her not be shaking like a leaf and cowering so much... even though the beginning was a bit rough for her.

 

Then we came to the office and she had to contend with men....something she rarely has to do at my house. But she was awesome. One of the guys is fairly young and he gets that he needs to get down to her level and talk gently and coach her. She rewarded him by taking her paw and (I call it clawing) putting on his arm so he would pet her some more. There was no growling today and she was quite happy to approach people and have them pet her. She was on a leash and I had control of who approached and how. So we had a very good experience here that I hope to build on.

 

I am concerned about the weight loss so I will get busy and try to feed her a bit extra but it does not help when she gets in one of her moods and absolutely refuses to eat for 24-36 hours...then all of a sudden she is ready to eat again with no issues at all.

 

Have a good week-end everyone!

[TDFOSTER]

Hi everybody,

I did not realize that it had been so long since I checked in. I guess time really does get away.

 

Jade is doing really well since I told her she gets to stay with me. We still have episodes of non eating which I try not to let freak me out but it still does some.

 

Jet (the boxer) for the most part are getting along. There is a rare snark and bark when she is resource guarding either me or her crate but other than that they get along and are actually playing some....something I didn't think I would ever see. She is still anxious and very scared of sudden movements and loud noises but we work on that.

 

There are two things that I am wondering if anyone has additional ideas.

1.) When any of us come home at night, Jade goes absolutely bezerk with barking, jumping, running around. I have tried ignoring, so she comes in the kitchen, I ask her to sit and pet her and talk to her calmly and give her a treat and as soon as she has the treat. BAM away she goes, barking and carrying on and jumping on the couch and bouncing it off the wall. Now, don't get me wrong. I love that she is excited to see me but somehow, if it is possible, I need to get her a bit calmer so she won't knock my mom over and hurt her.

 

2.) She takes her paw and scratches at you when she wants attention and it hurts as she really presses the paws and nails into the skin. I have tried getting up and moving as soon as she does that but my mom cannot do that. So any ideas I would love to hear.

 

Hoping everyone had a good summer and now looking foward to fall.

 

Teri

[gcv-border]

Sorry, I can't help you with the training ideas, but I did want to say how happy I am for Jade - and you - and your new permanent relationship. I somehow missed your post announcing that Jade had become part of your family.

[Alfreda]

So glad to hear that Jade is keeping you!

 

I'm sure others will chime in with ideas for calming high arousal- (Control Unleashed has some really good exercises for that)

1) What I did for "greeting frenzy" behavior was to train my previous dogs to do something else. At first I tried "go to your mat," but I found that making them try to contain the energy by lying on a mat, actually increased it. So instead, I had them go get a toy or ball and bring it to me for a few tosses. After that, they were able to calm down and sit or stand for a proper greeting. Also, keeping myself low-key (ignoring the dog(s) except for giving the command to bring the ball), helped too. If nothing else, at least looking for a toy/ball got them away from the doorway so people could come in, and diffused *some* of the energy!

 

2) That's so funny! My current dog does this to me when I'm lost in the computer screen. He stands on his hind legs and reaches up with one carefully articulated paw and pointedly scratches my shoulder I tried: a) ignoring (but it persisted), so I trained a replacement behavior for this as well: I asked him to "touch" my thigh with his nose. When training this at first I always responded by getting up and going outside to play with him (reward!). Also, during the transition, if I got scratched, I got up and simply put him outside the office door. (Scratching was not rewarding or effective for him). Now, If I need to finish what I'm working on and he touches my thigh, I acknowledge his "request," praise, and tell him to lie down and wait... Then as soon as I can take a break, we go out. I still get an ocassional shoulder scratch, but mostly he is using touch, or he sits right next to my thigh waiting and I try to notice and reward *that*

Hope that helps!

[TDFOSTER]

Alfreda and GVC - Thank you.

 

Alfreda, I will try your suggestions. Maybe telling her to look for her toy will be a long enough distraction that she can forget why she was so cotton picking excited. I was hopeful that my coming through the kitchen door and totally ignoring her until she comes in the kitchen quietly and then giving her a treat would help but so far, not. There are worse things I know but her bark can send the entire neighborhood into orbit.

 

Yep, ignoring her only makes it worse. Getting up and leaving seems to help but I will definitely try the touching to see if that will help.

[GentleLake]

Yep, ignoring her only makes it worse.

 

Totally to be expected!! It's called an extinction burst. What happens is when at first the behavior doesn't get reinforced, the dog (or other animal, including humans) will increase the behavior in an attempt to get it to work again. (I suspect that on some level, even if you weren't aware of it, you were reinforcing the behavior by giving her the attention she craves.) Sometimes new behaviors will be thrown in in an attempt to get the desired results.

 

The good news is that this is just temporary if you continue withholding attention for the undesired behavior. This is the hard part because now you've got to be even more determined to grit your teeth and ignore her through all her shenanigans. But if you do, it will eventually work. She'll come to realize that these behaviors don't get her what she wants (i.e. no rewards for them) so she'll gradually give up trying to get attention with them.

 

One of my dogs did the annoying pawing at me for attention. It wasn't easy to ignore her through the extinction burst, but I did and it stopped. Now I'm working on ignoring her whining and barking in class when she wants another cookie. That's really annoying since it disrupts the whole class, but it's what I've got to do.

 

I was really happy to hear about how well she's doing now that she knows she's really home, too.

 

So just stay strong and you'll be on the way to having the wonderful companion you know Jade can be.

[Alfreda]

Good point about the extinction burst!

 

Isn't it true tho, that behaviors which are self-reinforcing are unlikely to extinguish...? So, for instance, barking is often self-reinforcing, so it would need to be interrupted and/or replaced with something else. Right? One good thing about getting a toy/ball is that most dogs can't bark and hold something in their mouths at the same time .

 

I forgot to mention that I trained "touch" my thigh after I had already trained touch (target) my hand- so I just transferred it from there. But I feel so bad when I've been absorbed at the computer, and I suddenly realize that my dog has been patiently sitting, waiting at my thigh, and possibly even touching lightly with his nose, and I have failed to notice (OOPS!)

[GentleLake]

Yes. Self reinforcing behaviors are a different ball of wax. Since the reward isn't coming from the person, ignoring them doesn't eliminate the reward. So you have to redirect or interrupt the behavior in some way so that you can then reward. At first you reward simply for the end of the behavior and then work towards duration.

 

But what Jade's doing isn't self rewarding, so Teri should be able to work with them by persevering with ignoring her.

[TDFOSTER]

Thank you Gentle Lake I will work on this with her. Here is a picture from a couple of weeks ago.she was sitting on the couch beside me and ..I just happened to have my phone and was able to shoot it. IT doesn't look like it saved. I need to work on my technical skills as I am not having much luck. Will keep trying.