Second Dog II?

[nes]

Ok I'm just going to start a new thread. Can anyone suggest a good breed to look into rescueing as a second dog?

 

I don't want a hunting dog as a second dog because I have rabbits and will have ducks, chickens, etc. (so no terriers). I understand any dog can be trained but I just don't like terriers that much and I know it's very hard to train kill-behaviour out of dogs. (don't comment, start a new thread if you want to dissagree).

 

So far I'm looking into:

- cocker spaniel

- australian shepherd

- border collie (number 2)

- springer spaniel

- corgi

- golden retreiver

 

but I would like suggestions of more breeds to look into. Something high energy to keep up with our puppy madison, but also a dog that trains well. We have no opposition to getting a second border, we're just deciding if we want another kind of dog or not . Something good with children would be an asset.

 

We are getting a second dog (start a new thread if you want to comment on that) I have always raised my dogs in pairs and as we are moving into the country I belive madison should have a friend and we WANT another dog!!

 

We are getting another dog after madison is a year old so she will be fully trained. We have both had dogs all our lives and know what we are doing when it comes to training dogs.

 

I don't mind getting a mutt but would prefer a rescued purebred because then I will know how big they are going to get and what their personality should be like.

 

We would prefer a medium or big breed, I don't like pitts (i know they are sweet dogs, I don't want one - don't comment, start a new thread), and we don't want something small that's also going to be yippy.

 

I am researching now, we are getting our new dog in march when we move.

 

Nes.

[Jack & Co.]

Last time I checked, spaniels and retrievers were considered hunting dogs.

[Allie+Tess&Kipp]

I researched breeds for a few years before decided on a border collie. I would read books, read rescue web sites (those are the best for getting both the good AND the bad points of any type of dog), and I also joined mailing lists at Yahoo groups--another way to learn a lot about the good and the bad points of any breed. I suggest you try those things as well as asking here, especially with so many restrictions about what we are allowed to say. ???

 

Why not just look at Petfinder for the age and gender you want and leave the breed up for grabs? Then you can just page through until one catches your eye, then read the description, and if it says high energy, easy to train, great with kids, then you have a winner.

 

Allie + Tess & Kipp

http://weebordercollie.com

[Jack & Co.]

I suggest you try those things as well as asking here, especially with so many restrictions about what we are allowed to say. ???

Excellent suggestion, Allie. Lots of us offered suggestions on the other thread only to be rebuffed.

[bc friend]

My late cocker got along fine with my bc's but she was a little small for the rough housing; however, the breed as a whole still has a lot of temperament and genetic health problems according to my vet and groomer. My bc/springer has no herding instincts or intensity but she is an outstanding family dog. She's big enough for rough play, LOVES children, is very trainable, etc. You might want to consider a bc mix as your 2nd dog.

[Root Beer]

Honestly, at this point, if I had a spot in my house for another dog, I would get another Border Collie.

 

Speedy does really well with his mutt "brother and sister", but when I watch him interact with other Border Collies when we are out and about, I sincerely wish I could adopt a second Border Collie.

 

There is just something very special about the way Speedy interacts with other Border Collies and in the future I plan to always have a pair of Border Collies in the house even if I have a third dog that's a mix or another breed.

[Dixie_Girl]

I would definetly get another BC. It will be able to keep up with the one you have now, and they will play together better than any other breed. If you are getting a rescue/older dog, and not a pup you will be able to get one already known to get along with younguns. To me, there is nothing like watching two BCs playing!

[Beth G]

I second that suggestion. Here again I repeat what I said from my original post:

 

I myself have two border collie pups. Same age. Both 6 mos. And am quite happy with the arrangement.

 

Plus I came to find out that they are are a breed which really can be quite snobby to other breeds anyhow. So the two of them are quite happy together(they don't care about other dogs)...lol.

 

Plus what I like is that the two will wear each other out and their play style and energy levels are usually closely matched.

 

(Of course you will have to separate them to work them separately though and they will want to spend time alone with you separately also).

 

Nothing like watching two borders herd the heck out of each other. I think it's just beautiful!

 

Besides not alot of other breeds can put up with the herding and snapping behavior....but that's just imo...lol.

 

Although having two are definately not for everyone I agree...

[painted_ponies]

Of the breeds you listed, I'd probably go with another BC. I agree with the above post that BCs seem to "get" other stock dogs, but may not be on the same wavelength with non-stock breeds. My BC, Violet, lives with a Lhasa and a feist and never offers to play with either, but when we go visit her former home you should see her tearing around with her Australian Cattle Dog brothers!

 

A corgi is also a stock dog, of course, but you don't say how young your children are. I agree with you that medium/large breeds are better with kids than small breeds.

 

Australian Shepherds, at least in my area, have become the victim of unscrupulous breeders due to their popularity, and sometimes have disagreeable temperaments. Of course, it may be different where you live.

[Allie+Tess&Kipp]

The reason I got another border collie was that other dogs did not seem to understand Tess's body language. Border collie body language can be very different and I have met a lot of people who have noticed this themselves with their own border collies.

 

Everything BethG said is something I have experienced here (though I was not crazy enough to get TWO puppies at once ).

 

Allie + Tess & Kipp

http://weebordercollie.com

[Meg's mum]

I have to say that my personal preference would be a border collie for a bunch of reasons some stated:

 

You can handle them

You understand and love them

You are already armed with training, support group, exercise activities and patterns

Some 'unplacable' BC out there really needs you

 

There seems to be a fondness of the breed for Labradors given then proliferation of BC/Lab mixes in rescue....but maybe that just an indication of the impossible nature of the combination!

 

I wonder if the breed body language is more easily read by other herding dogs?

 

I'm interested too!!1 I'd like to know about compatibility issues with Labs and Springers.

[nes]

I have been reading what everyone has been saying, and taking it to heart, I just don't need extra information about how to train a second dog or my first dog I understand you're trying to offer help BUT I'm specifically looking for help in choosing the BREED of my second dog.

 

LOTS of votes for boarder collies eh?

 

I should have been more specific about the hunting dogs, I don't want something that is bred to kill so that's: jack russels, dachsunds, uh... there are alot of them. Greyhounds was a stupid idea, I remebered later that they were bred to hunt rabbits and that's the last thing I want!!

 

I'm also thinking, Madison is a sweet heart but she's not very good at gaurding against racoons! (she met a family yesterday and was scared ) I would also like a dog that's going to protect my livestock. Madison is VERY good at keeping pidgeons off the property (she tries to herd them and they get tried of the game) - does anyone have experiene with border and racoons or coyotes? Could I trust her to defend and bark against those animals or should I looking for a guarding herder like a perinese? Could a perinese get along well with my BC?

- I want something that will scare away the coons/skunks/etc. not something that will bring me back a dead one :S We will probably also get a donkey, and madison is good and guarding me at night so that may be enough and we don't need a gaurder. Does anyone use their border as a guard dog for the house?

 

Also I was watching the Pet network today and they had a thing on Dalmations - which are apparently high energy (knew that) but were bred to work with horses! So they are instinctually good with horses. I never would have thought of a dalmation!

Does anyone's BC have a dalmation friend? or has anyone kept them both?

 

That's very curious about the suggestions of BC's behaviour being hard to read by other dogs, and I'm thinking about that seriously as well. As madison gets older and her herding instincts are getting stronger I can see how this might be a problem in the future. So perhaps another BC is the answer

 

I have been looking around petfinder, but I don't know if I would trust it to come up with a sincere advertisement. Also I found the search options much too broad :S and it was taking me way to long (although I did find the cutest blind boarder that looks just like madison!).

 

My SO & I don't have kids yet, but we are planning in the next few years is why I'm concerned about getting a dog that's ok with young children. Having working dogs that aren't good wtih children is alright too, they will never be outside dogs, but I'd like my two year old to be able to pet my older dog!

 

& Jack & CO! I said you were right!! I have seriously considered the fact that I won't be able to leave my baby on a blanket on the ground in the living room with Madison loose. I hadn't thought of that earlier - I completly trust her, she's SO gentle, but she's too nuts and even in older age would probably knock down the babe . Subsequently I spoke with my SO on the topic & we may be getting a third dog when we have the kids. A cocker or king charles or golden retriever (I would love a KCS!!!) for the kids to play with and leave the other dogs to work with mom & dad .

 

nes.

[Allie+Tess&Kipp]

According to what I have read in the livestock areas of this board and a few others, if you want a livestock guardian dog, you really have to dedicate that dog to the job and they won't really be a house pet. For them to really guard, they can't be sleeping in the house... unless you want them to guard the house. That's my understanding, anyway. I may be wrong there. I am not sure you can crosspurpose a LGD doing it's job and being a house companion/pet kind of dog. Or were you more wanting something that would hang out on the porch or front yard or something and woof at things as they approach (which is easily compatible with house pet type of stuff)?

 

My only experience with dalmations is that my two border collies got on with a couple at the dog park like a house on fire. WHEEE!!! Run run run! Hide and seek! Everybody wrestle! Run run run! WHEE!!!! It was quite hilarious.

 

There have been other dalmations that they did not get along with so well, so I imagine it is hit or miss.

 

Allie + Tess & Kipp

http://weebordercollie.com

[nes]

I havn't decided what I want in terms of a guarding dog, I was only thinking about it today since madi only ran into those coons a few days ago. It was funny actually when she came out in the morning she was hunting all over for them & woofing at them!

 

I don't know if I'd be happy having a dog that couldn't be in the house - especially since we have the option of buying a donkey who could easily protect against feral/wild dogs/coyote/wolves (which is really what I have to worry about with horses).

 

Could I teach madison that racoons need to be herded and how would I do that? I'm worried about rabbies, would they respect the BC? Pidgeons were easy we just got her really excited about them and showed her what to do - same thing with racoons?

 

That's good to hear the dalmations really got on with your BCs - maybe they would be a perfect second breed for us With a rescue it would be easy enough to make sure the dalmation got along well with madison and of course I'd find one that wasn't deaf, blind or dumb :.

 

Nes.

[Allie+Tess&Kipp]

My experience with racoons has been that they are not easily scared away. My plan here is to keep anything from appealing to racoons (block off places they might go, not leave food out, etc.) and keep my dogs far away from them. A racoon carried off a kitten of mine once. I was young. I went to school that morning and my mom said she would put the kitten in the house for the morning when she left, but instead she just left him in the garage and a racoon carried him off, leaving bloody footprints. So we do whatever we can to keep racoons from ever finding our place appealing here.

 

As for guarding horses, llamas are good guarding animals, too, from what I hear. I don't know what donkeys do, but I know that llamas are so curious that they walk right up to stuff, which scares the whatever away, supposedly. I have a horse but there is no threat of wolves, etc. where he lives.

 

Allie + Tess & Kipp

http://weebordercollie.com

[fooshuman]

 

This poor fella needs a home! He is a ACD and such a mellow dog. I know nothing about this breed besides they are heelers. The people who tagged him said they sold him and don't want him back. (friggin moron breeders!) I was down there today to check the 2 Hope was shacked up with for mange, and offered to treat them if they come down with it. They looked fine so far! I know they be put down before the city forked out the time and money to heal them. I went in and played with him for about 15 - 20 minutes, very nice dog!!

I can probably get him for free even! Don't know how much it would cost to ship him but i'd be willing to help if it meant finding him a good home.

 

Can't blame me for trying heheh

[nes]

he he he - no I can't! but we're not looking for a second dog until March, we don't really have room right now and Madison is still a little young, we want her to really bond to us before we get another dog (although she's a little too bonded, but that's another story >

 

What a cutie though!! Anyone know anything about them?

 

Nes.

[Jo&Tex]

You found a blind boarder that looks like Madison....Where? In Ontario, I hope.

Point me to this Bdog please.

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by nes:

I have been reading what everyone has been saying, and taking it to heart, I just don't need extra information about how to train a second dog or my first dog I understand you're trying to offer help BUT I'm specifically looking for help in choosing the BREED of my second dog.

I think there may be come concern over all the things you want in this next dog. I know you are asking for help or ideas about the next breed but you are throwing out so many criteria -- Lots of energy, good with kids (really good with kids), play all day with Madison, leave bunnies alone (my mild mannered shelties have killed and eaten baby rabbits), not roam, cuddle in the house, not too small and now you're talking about chasing off racoons and coyotes (not a good idea for a BC, by the way). A LGD will keep your property safe from predators, but from what little I know won't be a great play mate for a very active BC. And some of them aren't especially great with people.

 

I know you're just considering your options but that's a lot to try to sort out for someone else. And maybe because you're "thinking out loud," you sound a bit unrealistic in all that you seem to want and what you think this next dog will be.

 

For what it's worth, I agree that herding dogs tend to get along with other herding dogs. I love shelties, but I don't think they meet all your criteria. Corgis can be fun dogs, but some don't care for kids. I have a friend with 3 Dals. One gets along fine with Quinn, one is intimidated by his energy (he's very friendly, but can be over the top) and the third wants to kill him on sight. I'm not the biggest fan of that breed, personally, though I like two of of the three belonging to my friend (guess one which I don't ). I wouldn't trust them to "instinctually" know how to act around horses. Even BC's with great instinct and talent need to be trained how to behave around sheep.

 

A couple of people have suggested, and you haven't seemed receptive, but I agree the best idea is going through a good rescue with people who will really know the temperament of the dogs. A puppy is always a roll of the dice. And within a breed, you will find differences from dog to dog on such things as energy level, being a good match for Madison, protectiveness, roaming, good with kids, and even size.

[Jack & Co.]

Beautifully said, Liz, as usual. Your posts are always insightful.

[Dixie_Girl]

My son had his damnation here when Jackson was just 4mos old. She could outrun him and teased him unmercifully. By the time Jackson was 6mos she could still outrun him, but he learned she couldn't outmanuver him, so he would end up "herding" her into a corner of the yard and not letting her go! I only let this go on for 10-15min! LOL They are sneaky devils too. She would never bite Jackson, unless she could take a nip out of his butt when he walked by. Ditto on the horse thing. Also, as far as the donkey guarding the horses, most horses wouldn't let a coyote, wolf, or dog (strange) withing 20 feet of them!

[katydid & Furry Friends]

For what my 2 cents is worth ...Racoons here have been found to have rabies so would like the guys to not tangle with them and for chasing skunks away usually means some sort of dog clean up.

 

I have fosters that love kids and others nervous and others down right not interested.

 

That is something we never know and also when they like kids it isn't all!!!

 

An older mellow dog that you know and can see in action a few times is the answer. Regardless of breed.

 

Also keep in mind dogs are smart.... party manners last a few weeks!!!

 

Katie

[IronHorse]

We are getting another dog after madison is a year old so she will be fully trained. We have both had dogs all our lives and know what we are doing when it comes to training dogs.

Before concidering suggesting a potential breed as a second dog into a heretofore hypothetical future environment I would ask you to expound upon what you mean as being a "fully trained" Border Collie at 1 year of age.

 

(if you find my comment curt,start a new thread if you want to comment on that)

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by IronHorse:

Before concidering suggesting a potential breed as a second dog into a heretofore hypothetical future environment I would ask you to expound upon what you mean as being a "fully trained" Border Collie at 1 year of age.

I was looking at Quinn, just under 13 months and wondering the same thing

[nes]

Sorry I didn't mean "fully trained", yes that sounds rediculous I mean she's got proper doggy manners!

So she sits, stays, comes, and is overal a good doggy citizen not an insane puppy.

 

Liz you were very correct, I am just thinking outloud and I do need alot of input because I've only ever had golden retreivers before Madison.

 

I'm thinking I would like to get a second border collie, Brad really wants a sheltie : From what I've seen so far they seem like an ok match - but I'm about to go research them (in like 2 seconds) because I'm not sure they are what I want.

 

Thanks for the feedback on dalmations, I'm meeting alot of fight on that one so probably not going to get a dalmation.

 

We are going to rescue, asking a rescue would be a good idea, but we're not ready to adopt yet so I want to leave finding the perfect dog for a little later (I can't afford to fall in love right now!!) and just researching breeds is keeping me happy .

 

Keep the suggestions rolling, there are some really neat breeds out there!!

 

Nes.