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Diarreah in my 14 week pup


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Hello new here to the forums. I was wondering if anyone has had this problem before in a boder collie pup. Logan is a 14 week red haired boder collie that has been suffering from diarreah for about a month. I was feeding him taste of the wild puppy food the bison and venison blend cause I was thought it was a good quality food. He was on diamond puppy food when I got him from breeder. I did a nice slow transition. About 10 days long. We took him to the vet and he was given antibiotics with Hills Prescription diet digestive/weight glucose management. He go back to the TOTW and diarreah again. Just really soft mushy can't pick up poop. Went back to get and she gave him probiotic fortiflora powder and he is still having issues. Vet said he may have to go on meds. I dont like that obviously I thought maybe it was the TOTW so I switched cold turkey to NUTRO WHOLESOME ESSENTIALS PUPPY CHICKEN BLEND about 2 days ago. I probably shouldn't have gone cold turkey but I thought if TOTW was making him sick why continue? Any suggestions thoughts comments about this? Could use some help. I care for Logan a lot and I spend a lot of time training and playing with him. He seems healthy despite the bowel movements.

 

Thanks

Greg

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Greg, have you had a stool culture done? It might be giardia, ask for a culture. Giardia will recur if not treated w/flagyl, I think it is.

 

You can also try just giving him well cooked white rice w/a little cottage cheese mixed in and nothing else. That might help.

 

Good luck! Hope something changes for him soon. Next time, post in the Health section and you might get more views and quicker help.

 

Ruth & Gibbs

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I definitely would have a stool culture done. It is easy to pick up giardia or other problems.

I have had good results with feeding plain cooked white rice with little bits of chicken in it for a few days. Unless there's a parasite or other health issue that usually clears it up.

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I third the call for a stool sample. Best bet is to do a composite sample with a little bit of stool from 3 days in a row. Be sure to tell the vet/tech that it's a composite so they know to get some from all 3 days.

 

Unfortunately, both giardia and coccidia can be difficult to detect, even in a 3 day composite sample, so it may take more than one test.

 

Something else to consider is that you may be overfeeding. That can cause soft stools. Someone else recently posted a similar question to yours and that's what ended up being the problem. The soft stools stopped as soon as the amount of food was decreased. I would look at how many meals you're feeding a day (it should be at least 3 at this age) and how much you're feeding. The recommended amounts on dog food bags are often too much.

 

Best wishes, congrats on the new pup (we need pictures, please) and welcome to the Boards.

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I agree with Gentle Lake. My Logan, when he was a puppy had coccidia and I checked 4 or 5 fecals before I caught it. It might just be better to treat him for it.

Taste of the Wild is a rich food and some dogs just can't tolerate it. If he did well on the Hills food you got from the vet maybe pick up some more of that food. Ask what puppy food they recommend and when his stools are completely normal slowly add the new food in and see what happens. My Logan never did well on puppy food. Even after being on albon for the coccidia. He would have 5-8 huge stools a day!!!!! It was bizarre!!! I forget what worked for him eventually (Pro Plan puppy, maybe.) If your Logan did well on Diamond, maybe go back to that. Good luck!

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aschlemm's post reminds me that Shoshone did really bad on a home made, carefully crafted & balanced diet. Her coat looked awful, her stools smelled worse than normal, she had very little energy. I put her back on some middle-of-the-road kibble w/grains and by-products, I'm sure.

 

Within a week, her coat, eyes, and stools were all normal, and so was her personality. Every dog is different, what works for one dog doesn't necessarily work for another dog.

 

Get that stool sample(s) try the chicken/rice for a few days, and let us know how he does.

 

Ruth & Gibbs

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When I read through your OP, my mind also jumped to possible Giardia, or other parasite. I am surprisrd the vet didn't analyze a stool sample. Also, be aware that testing a fecal sample for giardia may require sending out a sample for analysis, rather than having it read in the vet's office. That is what my vet has always done. I think that she sends it to a lab that uses a more accurate test for giardia than the egg float test done in the clinic.

 

A lot of other good suggestions offered. I also recommend the bland diet (rice and chicken) to let the stomach quiet down.

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Thank y'all for the replies. If under to go with a rice and chicken diet how much and how often.and for how long. He weighs almost 20 lbs. He does get a controlled portion. According to the bag. With TOTW he was getting 3 cups a day 3 times a day divided . Now he gets 2 and half 3 times divided with NUTRO. He has had several stool samples. The last one they tried didn't have Any they could take. I'll ask the vet if they test for what y'all have mentioned. Guardia. But isnt that their job and wouldnt they have checked?? The hills food was like a medical soft food. He got less than a can a day. Like 1/3 or so. I don't think it was for long term. He gets a stool sample every time we go it seems. Nothing comes back.

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2. 5 cups a day for a 20 lb pup sounds like too much. My 40 lb boy gets a couple cups a day. Someone mentioned earlier about dog food manufacturer's recommendations are more to line their pockets than do what's best for the dog.

 

Someone else can talk about the amount of kibble to try, I've never raised a pup.

 

Hopefully others will chime in, but I'd cut back slowly, to no more than a 1.5 c a day, and see what happens to his stools. Before you go the chicken & rice route.

 

As far as the vet's office knowing to test for giardia, you can call them and ask what the fecal tests were for.

 

If, as you say, he's in good spirits and doing regular puppy stuff, I'd cut back on the food for a week or so and see what happens.

 

Good luck!

 

Ruth & Gibbs

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To detect parasites in the stool at a regular visit the parasites have to be shedding eggs that then are seen with a microscope. Most pups have round worms since they pass in utero from mom to pups. Most breeder will deworm pups routinely. Coccidia is also rather common in some areas of the country. It is not all that hard to detect if you are looking for it when checking for parasites. Giardia is different, they are not looking for eggs so most typical clinics will not be able to detect that, takes a different test and different meds. Simple deworming does not treat for either giardia or coccidia.

 

All the parasites can be picked up again by the pup from his stool, walking through it licking his fur, licking his butt ect so you need to be diligent about cleaning things up. If he is positive for giardia I would rinse off paws and butt at least once a day as an added precaution. It can be tough to get rid of. Some parasites can be picked up by people so you want to make sure you are picking up stools and washing hands ect

 

I tend to treat pups for the common parasites with symptoms even if samples are not showing eggs, if nothing else it rules out parasites as a cause. I would consult you vet

 

I find most bags of food recommend amounts that would over feed dogs, I would put a measured amount in his bowl and see what he is actually eating in one sitting. Then feed him twice a day.

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That sounds like way too much food for a pup that size, as Ruth points out, and that has been a problem for some other owners as others have mentioned.

 

The CRAP diet is good for settling upset insides - poached (boiled) chicken breast, white (or brown) rice; and pumpkin (about a half to a tablespoon per meal). You only need to feed it usually for a day or two before things often improve drastically. Then begin to replace part of it at each meal with a small amount of your kibble, and take a few days to accomplish the changeover.

 

I haven't had a pup for a while now but I'd not be feeding more than 1 1/2 or two cups daily, at a guess. Different pups require different rates of feeding so it's not easy to give a simple answer. A lot of it is to try something, make gradual changes, and be observant.

 

You'd rather have a lean pup than a fat pup, and a big belly is no pup's friend at this age.

 

Very best wishes!

 

PS - I concur with having stool samples checked. I had a pup that turned out to have both giardia and hookworms. If this does not resolve with the right feeding and vet care, consider having your pup tested for IGS, which is something this pup I've mentioned had, and is easily identifiable with a cheek swab DNA test. IGS is easily treatable once identified. I'm not trying to worry you but telling you this so it's on your radar if the diarrhea is persistent and other efforts do not resolve it over the next couple of months.

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I agree with the post above. (Sue saved me a lot of typing. :-) )

 

I will also mention that many people on these boards feed an 'all-life-stages' food rather than puppy food. Or, if feeding puppy food, will transition to an adult or 'all-life-stages' food at around 5-6 months of age. Again, just something to think about as you go forward.

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Ok well I guess I'm gonna have to cut back on the amount of food he gets for the day. Also I'll be asking my vet if they tested for any of this things as well. Coccidia IGS and Giardia. I'm not freaked out by or Just want him to have this problem gone. Hopefully it's just his food. I'll try to keep y'all updated. Thanks for all your help.

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O my God! 3 cups a day for a 20 pound puppy!!!! The dog food makers suggest more than is healthy because they want to sell more food. Some dogs will just get fat, yours has a gut that resists all that food. Our 50 lb male gets between 1 1/2 and 2 cups a day, and we go by his ribs to either increase or decrease his portions. He is not an extremely active dog. I suspect that a 50 pounder who is active might get those three cups.....

 

I would give him the chicken-rice and pumpkin for a day or two, and then cut his portions WAY down. You have to experiment, as all dogs do not have the same nutritional needs. Try 1 1/2 cup[s a day to start.

 

As for puppy food, many breeders do not feed puppy food at all, and some people transition to adult food by 5-6 months. This is because puppy food is VERY high in protein, promoting bone growth that is too fast in some dogs. This could lead to orthopedic problems later. If you plan an active life for your pup, I would consider transitioning to adult food very soon, perhaps when you finish the chicken-rice pumpkin regimen. And ignore the suggestions on the bag!

 

Kathy Robbins

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I'm gonna try to slowly cut back his food. As I have been doing. Since I started getting replies. If I'm just over feeding that's an easy fix. If I did the CRAP diet will it upset his stomach initially? And wish his weight how much food? And how often? I was just doing what the bag said. That's frustrating how people are just driven by money at any cost.

 

Thanks for commenting on my pics of him. He gets a lot of attention where ever he goes. :D

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I don't see a need to slowly cut back on his food. If he seems hungry, a few green beans (I buy the "no salt" type) with his food may help him feel more full without adding significant calories or nutrition.

 

CRaP is so gentle that I have never had a problem with it but I do introduce it with smaller, more frequent meals (if possible), to begin with. It has a high proportion of water so two ounces of cooked chicken, two ounces of cooked rice, and half an ounce of pumpkin (a tablespoon at most) will seem like a lot but it also contains a lot of water, unlike kibble. It is very digestible and has fiber in the pumpkin, and even my one dog that I mentioned (who actually died just past his third birthday from complications of his genetic condition) never had a bit of trouble with this food. It is not something to feed other than to give the dog's insides a chance to rest and recover (I will normally fast a dog from solid food for 12-24 hours prior to beginning to feed again, whether it's CRaP or reintroducing their regular diet gradually, in order to allow the digestive system to "reboot") because it is not by any means a complete diet.

 

I have often found that just a day or two of CRaP (started after a fast of 12 hours past the last nasty bowel movement) is often all a dog needs to get back on track with a digestive system ready to introduce a daily diet, whether it's the old food (like after a "dietary indiscretion" has upset the system) or something new I'm switching to.

 

The key word for introducing new things is "gradually", and for a young dog in particular, smaller, more frequent meals can be helpful.

 

Very best wishes!

 

PS - What they say on the bag depends on the manufacturer but, yes, they are in the business of selling dog food. Also, most people seem to feel a dog has to be overweight to be right nowadays - it's common in the show ring as well in many breeds. And for cheaper foods, in order to get sufficient *nutrition*, you have to overfeed *calories* because they are so loaded with grains and carbs that don't nourish so much as supply energy in the form of calories.

 

As for puppy foods versus all-life-stages foods - many people here feed all-life-stages by the time a pup is three months old. Some don't feed puppy food at all or hardly past weaning. And certainly most anyone I know and respect does not feed puppy food for the year that the bag recommends. A pup that is lean and growing reasonably will be much healthier in the long run than a fat, roly-poly, pup that grows faster than it should.

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^^^ What Sue said. Roly poly puppies are cute, but they aren't necessarily healthy.

 

And at 20 weeks, your Greg is more of a toddler than a baby. If his energy level is good, I'd cut back maybe over a couple days, but not any slower than that.

 

I bet he gets comments - he's just a bundle of cute!

 

Ruth & Gibbs

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