drug dog training

[in2adventure]

Anyone have any experience with this? I'm looking for training tips and do and don't training stuff. I'm having a hard time finding reliable books or DVD's. They all seem very dated and I'm sure this kind of stuff is hard to find in the general public type listings. I have access to a VERY reliable trainer (20+ years in police work), but as you all know, it's better to have several training options to look at and take from. Besides, she has GSD's and I'm not sure if training BC's for this needs a different mind set. She does think shock collars are the answer to lack of attention

[Smalahundur]

Isn´t the largest obstacle the fact you´d have to handle illegal drugs for such a training? Can´t see how this is possible outside some kind of police/customs facility.

[MicheleS.]

Having had both GSD's and a BC, you might not need a different mindset or approach to this type of training however I would be very cautious about having the trainer suggest a shock collar. I would have not used one on my GSD's either. My shepherds were completely a different type of GSD than they use and want for police work and training and using a shock collar on either one of my GSD's would have destroyed them.

I cannot even imagine putting one on a border collie.

I do know that some of the police dog training is done using a shock collar but there are trainers out there who would respect your wishes to not use one. I have a friend with a very drivey, very hard to handle GSD and was having problems in a certain training area. She went back to the breeder (who is a policewoman who breeds, teaches and trains) and the first thing she suggested was a shock collar. Not an option for my friend, so the breeder was knowledgeable and flexible and gave her alternatives that worked!

 

Sorry, I don't know of any reading material on training drug dogs. I would think that hooking up with a good instructor regularly would be your best bet and as Smalahunder pointed out, it would be difficult for the average person to obtain the illegal substances for training purposes.

 

There is a new sport being developed called K9 Nose Work. Not sure how widespread it is right now. The organization is called National Association of Canine Scentwork (NACSW). No illigel substances, the dogs scent birch, anise and clove. They do box drills, interior and exterior searches. Sounds fun to me if you can find a group near you

Or have you thought about teaching tracking, that's another option.

[in2adventure]

Isn´t the largest obstacle the fact you´d have to handle illegal drugs for such a training? Can´t see how this is possible outside some kind of police/customs facility.

I have LEGAL access to all drugs needed for training. This isn't for hobby training and has a serious purpose.

 

Michelle....good to hear your friend stuck by her guns about the shock collar. I think many (not all) of the folks that train for police work (bite work) like to use shock collars. They seem to learn from their trainers and don't know other ways of training. I'm also pretty confident that bite dogs and other hyped up police work don't have the place for too much possitive training. The mind set of the dog is very different for that type of work. I know for sure both of mine would shut down. Grady can't handle even handle a harsh scolding. He'd make a terrible attack dog. The guy would scream and he'd probably let go and run away

 

Grady is the one in training. The woman has given a me set of instructions, but he's gone beyond her direction already. He learns soooooo fast We can only get together every couple weeks because of scheduals and I was looking for books or DVD's to help me out between sessions so I don't mess things up. Unlike agility, ruining my first drug dog is not a good career move We have another training session this week and I'm hoping she has a few books for me to look at.

[MaggieDog]

You might want to contact Steve White at i2K9 - he's very well known for his clicker based training methods in LE canine applications. I saw him speak at Clicker Expo and he and his wife Jen are both AWESOME. I'm assuming that you're looking for detection training resources, but you may also want to look into scent discrimination exercises since the idea is similar - Deb Jones has a great little booklet on that you might want to check out.

 

The Customs dogs trained for agricultural detection are *completely* clicker trained from the time they enter the facility, so contacting them might get you some more detection specific info from a well respected org as well. I might even have their old training manual on the computer around here somewhere if you'd like it.

[in2adventure]

You're awesome Erin. I will check them out. Grady is clicker obsessive, but the trainer here insists I shouldn't use it and I'm not sure why. He's doing great without it, but I think things will move along even quicker with it. He LOVES his new job and I hope to have him ready to be certified by the end of summer.

[Journey]

You might contact Mark - Positive Response Canine Training He's up the road from me a bit and uses strong positive motivational methods with all his students and dogs. If there are books or DVD's out there I would think he could tell you where to find them.

[Maralynn]

Grady is clicker obsessive, but the trainer here insists I shouldn't use it and I'm not sure why. He's doing great without it, but I think things will move along even quicker with it. He LOVES his new job and I hope to have him ready to be certified by the end of summer.

 

No reason why you shouldn't use a clicker. For my little bit of exposure watching HR detection training with SAR, I know I'd use a clicker if I was going to do any sort of detection work.

 

I think many (not all) of the folks that train for police work (bite work) like to use shock collars. They seem to learn from their trainers and don't know other ways of training. I'm also pretty confident that bite dogs and other hyped up police work don't have the place for too much possitive training. The mind set of the dog is very different for that type of work.

 

I think that may be slowly changing I've heard of/seen a few videos of schutzhund and mondio dogs that were trained with positive methods.

[MicheleS.]

Oops, sorry I wasn't sure of your line of work and didn't know you were training for a serious purpose. In any case, that type of work for a dog (and person) is pretty interesting. Good luck with that with Grady and keep us updated on his progress

[in2adventure]

No reason why you shouldn't use a clicker. For my little bit of exposure watching HR detection training with SAR, I know I'd use a clicker if I was going to do any sort of detection work.

 

 

 

I think that may be slowly changing I've heard of/seen a few videos of schutzhund and mondio dogs that were trained with positive methods.

 

That's good to know. I've met some really good, up to date police trainers, but still find the harsh ones more often than not. The dogs LOVE their job and shoving them around is probably not that nessessary. IMO, possitive training gets a better outcome. I've been on the biting end of young police dog and it's handler couldn't get her to let go. The dog was only about 3 and was in the field as a certified working dog. In my mind, she should not be certified yet because she didn't have enough self control to listen to her handler. I wonder if the possitive training would teach her more self control instead of letting the adrenaline take over?

 

Michelle...no worries I'll let you know when we are ready to test. He should make things really fun at Christmas parties this year

[Alaska]

Don't you have access to detection dog trainers through your work?

 

You might try contacting Packleader. Nowadays they seem to be focusing on conservation dog training, but their background is in narcotics. I would think the principles are largely the same (assuming your interest is only detection and not other forms of police work).

 

Here are some instructional videos about training narcotics dogs. I don't know how good they are - just did a quick internet search - but at least they're recent.

[ejano]

If a dog is not paying attention, a shock collar is not going to help the problem, it's just going to ruin the dog.

[in2adventure]

Don't you have access to detection dog trainers through your work?

 

You might try contacting Packleader. Nowadays they seem to be focusing on conservation dog training, but their background is in narcotics. I would think the principles are largely the same (assuming your interest is only detection and not other forms of police work).

 

Here are some instructional videos about training narcotics dogs. I don't know how good they are - just did a quick internet search - but at least they're recent.

 

Yes, only detection work. I have access to one trainer. Like I said earlier, having more than one training opinion is always a good thing. I'm VERY new to this type of training and don't want to get sucked into the "you have to do it this way" thought process. This happenend in agility and it took a long time to fix the wrongs. I really want to do this right so I can use him legally for work. I'll check out the videos. I just got personal internet access this week and can look up that kind of thing now. Work treats all videos as if they are porn

 

The conservation training is the same principle as narcs. It's all pretty facinating. A friend was at an airport recently and had a little beagle hit on his pack while he was in the waiting area. He had eaten an orange on the plane and had the peels in a baggie. He said he was little freaked out because he new there was nothing illegal in his bag. The lady told him the dog was trained to sniff out illiegal plant and food products coming into the country. Oranges were not illegal, but the pup was trained to hit on citrus.

 

 

 

If a dog is not paying attention, a shock collar is not going to help the problem, it's just going to ruin the dog.

 

I agree, but it's hard to teach some people that.

[Alaska]

Too bad narcodog hasn't been around lately. He's a board member with a working drug dog. Here is a thread with pictures of his dog and a brief explanation of how he trains.

 

The police dept in the town I used to live in used to have a drug dog. A couple of things I remember were that the dog had to do new training searches continually to stay on top of his game. The handler was always scrambling for volunteers who were willing to have drugs planted in their houses etc. - a lot of people weren't interested Also, the dog had to be kept away from smokers to keep his nose from being ruined.

 

I believe that you have to have a warrant to use the dog. In this town, the handler got in a lot of hot water for taking his dog for a stroll down Main Street. People complained that the dog should be kept in its kennel except when the handler had a warrant, and then only taken where the warrant authorized the dog to go (or where he was explicitly invited, e.g. the elementary school). I don't know the exact legality of the situation, but before I trained my personal dog as a drug dog, I'd for sure want to check into this.

 

Also, you might want to look into certification if you want your evidence to stick in court. It looks like many states have certification organizations, plus there are national ones too. At least it would be worth looking at what the dog has to do to pass the certification test.

[in2adventure]

I've never heard of a dog staying in their kennel except for work. The town sounds very paraniod If they didn't have anything to worry about then the dog being out and about shouldn't be an issue The dogs should definately be certified and training records should always be made available to show the judge the dog is up to snuff. I would be leary about wanting to hide drugs in my house too. The folks here tend to train in public buildings or work vehicles to minimize exposures. The drugs can leave a residue smell.

 

A warrent for a house is a must, but for a car it's different. It's not a living space. My RV is treated as a vehicle when on the road, but is considered a house when the jacks are down and it's hooked up. Kinda interesting law. A car has different rules because it's in transit. It can be searched without a warrent as long as there is probable cause or permission from the owner. This is why a dog is handy. "You can look in the glove box for an elephant". They can "look" in places the LE is not allowed to due to law or lack of permission. If the owner says you can search the car, but can't look in the glove box or trunk, you can't look there, but the dog can sniff there without opening it.

 

Everyone's info is very helpfull. I was having hard time finding the sites and info myself.

[Alaska]

The latest issue of Bark has an article on K9 nose work. There is a video and some links accompanying the article here.

 

Regarding needing a warrant, here is how it was explained to me today. In your own home, or any place you have a reasonable expectation of privacy, a warrant is needed. However when you are out in public, e.g. walking down Main Street or driving down the highway, no warrant is needed.

 

Regarding keeping the drug dog kenneled when it wasn't working, I guess I meant keeping it out of public spaces. Personally, I have never encountered an enforcement dog of any kind (police, drug, customs, etc.) anywhere that it wasn't working, except when I was visiting the dog's handler at their home or visiting the place the dog was kenneled when not working (my parents are very proud that the kennel their dogs stay at when they travel is also used to house off-duty customs dogs). Not at dog parks, not going on a hike, not hanging out at flea markets or Starbucks, not at agility trials...not anywhere. The closest I ever came was meeting an airport security dog at the Boneyard at the Phoenix Airport - my dogs and I were between (delayed) flights and he stopped off to pee - but he was still on the job. Perhaps law enforcement dogs do get out and about like "normal" dogs, but the few I've known don't.

 

Regarding the paranoid town, let's just say there was some justification for the paranoia, as the professionalism of that particular police department left something to be desired. The drug dog's handler, for instance, was eventually convicted for stealing and consuming the evidence he collected. On the other hand, there wasn't really that much to worry about as, aside from the officer, the department never once got a drug arrest to stick in court because so many procedural errors were made.

[alligande]

My next door neighbour is a GSD bomb detection dog. She lives at home like a normal pet ( with 2 golden retreivers as companions) but she is not taken on normal walks as she is extremely high drive and cost the state vast amounts of money and the fear of her taking off is huge. She is taken to the dog park when there are no other dogs there. When her handler is away on training etc, his wife does not take her out, just plays endless games of frisbee.

[bc4pack]

"The police dept in the town I used to live in used to have a drug dog. A couple of things I remember were that the dog had to do new training searches continually to stay on top of his game."

 

yes, if you're dog gets paid for finding a certain odor(s) and you want the dog to stay proficient and motivated, you conduct daily training exercises.

 

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"Also, the dog had to be kept away from smokers to keep his nose from being ruined."

 

Not true.

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"I believe that you have to have a warrant to use the dog."

 

also not true....a dog alert actually gives probable cause to get a warrant....also presuming you and the dog have some sort of valid and recognized certification

[bc4pack]

To the OP... feel free to contact me privately. I am a CBP Narcotics handler with 20 yrs experience working predominantly airport/seaport environment.

 

Tara

bc4pack@gmail.com