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Talking to Animals by Jon Katz


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#21 D'Elle

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 10:17 AM

Who said it's out of the realm of possibility that animals feel, hope, make choices, or that they do not think and do not care?  No one here, that I can see.

 

Experience has convinced me that animals feel, hope, make choices, think and care. Experience has also convinced me that Jon Katz is full of baloney.  These two opinions are fully consistent -- in fact, the second almost follows from the first.

Agree completely with this.

Katz disgusted me from the very first reading, and I never finished the first book he wrote. I wanted to go find all the copies of all his books and burn them, and I wanted to slap him silly.

 

I do get into it when someone praises or even says they are reading his books. I go at it gently, not showing the fury I feel toward him and the harm he has done. Sometimes the person listens to me and actually views him in a different way. I find that the people who like him do so out of ignorance, and some can actually be "shown the light". In the same way that I think each dog I manage to help counts for something, each person I can influence in a good way counts. Maybe that person will pass the information on.

 

I love the way my dogs know me. They can tell when I stand up or walk into the room that I am about to take them for a walk, and they get excited. To me, I have done nothing different from the way I always stand up or walk into the room. But they see subtle changes in my face, my walk, my smell, who knows...and they know what I am going to do. And there are many other things.

 

 I can tell the dogs something and they know what I mean.  Recently someone who had never met my dogs before commented to me that she had just told them something and they responded as if they knew what she said. They are just so good at reading people that it seems they understand English.

 

I can tell when one needs to go out before he or she goes to the door. I know if Kit is roo rooing at me because she wants to play tug, and when it means she has to go out. And many other things.

 

Nothing magical about any of it and it's neither supernatural nor psychic. Just close observation by both sides, coupled with a genuine desire to know and understand each other. And that, to me, is far more lovely and beautiful than if it were anything else.


D'Elle

and family.

Left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that?" --Jester:  2001 - June 24 2016. Remembered with much love.
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

And not pictured, Benjamin the cat, who thinks he is a small border collie with superpowers.

 

 

 


#22 urge to herd

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 08:42 PM

This ^^^. Thanks, D'Elle.

 

R & G



#23 Donald McCaig

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Posted Yesterday, 08:38 AM

Many years ago I stepped into sheepdog culture. I was animal ignorant and stubborn. How to do it and what I was seeing were patiently explained to me - again and again until I got it. I was the world’s slowest learner. Why, given so many willing, generous teachers would anyone chose to remain ignorant?

#24 Shetlander

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Posted Yesterday, 02:19 PM

Why, given so many willing, generous teachers would anyone chose to remain ignorant?


Katz isn't interested in learning. I'd say money and admiration drive him. He'll write whatever version of reality suits his purpose, not caring that he completely contradicts himself a couple chapters or books later. The way he treats his animals is terrible. The lazy, dishonest and careless way he treats the craft of writing is also abysmal.

Liz


 


#25 D'Elle

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Posted Yesterday, 03:35 PM

Katz isn't interested in learning. I'd say money and admiration drive him. He'll write whatever version of reality suits his purpose, not caring that he completely contradicts himself a couple chapters or books later. The way he treats his animals is terrible. The lazy, dishonest and careless way he treats the craft of writing is also abysmal.

 

 

^^^this.

There are none so ignorant as those who will not learn.


D'Elle

and family.

Left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that?" --Jester:  2001 - June 24 2016. Remembered with much love.
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

And not pictured, Benjamin the cat, who thinks he is a small border collie with superpowers.

 

 

 


#26 D'Elle

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Posted Yesterday, 03:37 PM

^^^this.

There are none so ignorant as those who will not learn.

 

And I will add to that:

In order to learn something, you first have to be willing to admit that you don't know everything already.

Some people cannot or will not ever admit that.


D'Elle

and family.

Left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that?" --Jester:  2001 - June 24 2016. Remembered with much love.
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

And not pictured, Benjamin the cat, who thinks he is a small border collie with superpowers.

 

 

 


#27 urge to herd

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Posted Yesterday, 05:29 PM

Again, D'Elle! ^^^  People don't admit they are ignorant because a) they're afraid and B) they're afraid.

 

And they would rather remain afraid and ignorant than take a chance of learning something.

 

R & G



#28 urge to herd

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Posted Yesterday, 05:33 PM

So, back to Katz ~ as long as there are people who buy his books, show up to his public readings, and write nice things about him online, he'll keep on being himself.

 

My personal experience over the years is that people don't change in any basic way unless there's a huge penalty (loss of health, relationship, income, etc) to NOT changing. Change is difficult. Most of us really have to be hurting to say, 'I give up, I gotta do something different'. Katz is not nearly there. If he is indeed a narcissist, then he likely will never be there.

 

Ruth & Gibbs



#29 Donald McCaig

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Posted Yesterday, 05:35 PM

Complicated story which may not be true - I believe it. Mr Katz's first teacher was a wOman who had begun as the girlfriend/student of a notorious brute.After their breakup, she abjured all corrections. To my knowledge she competed once at Foster Fields. Beverly Lambert had the mic, Host Gene Shenniger advised the stranger there were novice classes but, no, no: she'd run open. She sent her dog who ran out 100 feet and returned to her feet while Bev explained best she could. Second time: ditto. Bev was lost for words.

Poor woman. Poor Mr Katz.

#30 highway61

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Posted Today, 12:45 PM

All these derogatory comments about at Katz...if his name was never mentioned I would guess they were all aimed at Caesar Milan  :D  

 

About 12 yrs ago when I adopted a dog my Mom thought "Caeser's Way" would make a good gift for me. She also gifted me "Dr." James Dobson's Dare to Discipline years ago when my son was a defiant toddler. I'm not into book burning but they both went into the garabage. 



#31 Smalahundur

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Posted Today, 12:57 PM

All these derogatory comments about at Katz...if his name was never mentioned I would guess they were all aimed at Caesar Milan  :D  

What a strange comment. You can think what you like of Ceasar´s methods, you can´t say that he and Katz have a lot in common, apart from the fact that they both write books about dogs.


"Milli manns og hests og hunds hangir leyniþráður"


#32 highway61

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Posted Today, 02:00 PM

What a strange comment. You can think what you like of Ceasar´s methods, you can´t say that he and Katz have a lot in common, apart from the fact that they both write books about dogs.

 

And that they both are self involved egotists who perpetuate didactic myths about dogs so yeah...there's that   :P



#33 GentleLake

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Posted Today, 02:06 PM

And that they both are self involved egotists who perpetuate didactic myths about dogs so yeah...there's that   :P

 

:lol: :lol: :ph34r:


"People in your life always come and go all the time; the dogs are always there for me. Always." ~Samantha Valle



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