Collie had a fit

[baz2107]

I have 2 border collies, whilst walking them yesterday we had been playing throw the ball for about 5 minutes (this normally lasts 10-15 mins before they are shattered) The slightly younger one (nearly 4) caught the ball then dropped it and started shaking and frothing at the mouth. She didn't react to me saying her name and I was worried she had swallowed her tongue-I put my hand in mouth to check and she bit down but had no recollection.

 

I picked her up to run her back home and get to the vets and she seemed to stop shaking before I even got to the end of field, so I put her on the floor but she shook again and went down a grass verge (about 2-3 feet) she then stopped shaking and ran a few yards from myself and our other dog-I went to her but she barked at us ran away slowly from us in the middle of a road (luckily no cars), I tried to catch her but she sped up and was moving towards main road, fortunately she turned round and when our other collie went to her she seemed to come round and then when I went to her she was ok, and wanted to continue her walk-I took her straight home though where she drank a lot of water-she has seemed fine since and was ok on her walk this morning.

 

Does anyone know what is likely to have caused this? could it be a sting/bite, or could it be heat exhaustion? She hadn't eaten for a few days (this isnt uncommon) and she doesn't drink enough at any time?

 

Has anyone experienced similar and is it something that is likely to happen again

[mbc1963]

"Border Collie Collapse is likely a unique episodic seizure disorder that can occur in sheep-herding or ball-chasing activity."

 

From this website:

 

http://truedogblog.blogspot.com/2012/10/border-collie-collapse-bcc-syndrome.html

 

Not an expert, but I've been on the forums long enough to be familiar with the condition (BCC).

 

Good luck!

 

Mary

[juliepoudrier]

To be honest, it sounds like it could be epilepsy. She is a typical age for the first seizures to occur. Seizing while out playing is not typical, but I have a dog who did the same thing, falling into a seizure while running with her packmates, and at about the same age. It wasn't until much later that she had the more typical seizures (which occurred while she was sleeping, usually overnight).

 

The thing with seizures is that you can't really make a determination with just one. Often bloodwork, etc., will be normal. For now, I'd keep an eye on her, and get yourself a notebook and keep track of any more that happen--when, where, anything going on in particular that might have triggered it.

 

As you discovered, a word of caution about seizures--do not put your hand in the dog's mouth. During such times, the dog is completely unaware and, as you experienced, you are likely to be bitten, through no fault of the dog (a seizing dog has no control over its limbs, behavior. etc.). Disorientation, wobbliness, and even ravenous hunger after a seizure (known as the post-ictal period) are also typical of epileptic dogs. Did she lose control of her bladder?

 

I hate to be the bearer of possible bad news, but best to consider the possibilities so you can be prepared to treat if necessary. For most dogs, epilepsy is treatable, and now there are a number of new (human) medications that people are using with great success. There's also a K9 epilepsy Yahoo group, of which I am a member. The folks there are very helpful.

 

I hope it's not epilepsy, but the symptoms sure seem failry classic to me. Usually a vet won't do anything (besides bloodwork to rule out other possible causes for a seizure), but it's worth contacting your vet and letting him/her know what happened so they can note it on your dog's record, again in case a pattern emerges. (And it wouldn't hurt to get bloodwork done, but that should be as soon after a seizure as possible--talk to your vet about it.)

 

J.

[Kelleybean]

My first thought was Border Collie Collapse too.

[mbc1963]

http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vbs/faculty/Mickelson/lab/EIC/bordercollieEIC/

 

That's the website of the most cutting-edge research on BCC.

 

Mary

[Liz P]

Doesn't sound at all like BC collapse. Sounds like a seizure.

 

Epilepsy is not at all unusual in the breed and often presents at this age.

 

However, many things can cause seizures, including low blood sugar, water intoxication and overheating. Had you been at the vet immediately they might have been able to determine if she had low blood sugar or an unusually high body temp. Now it's too late to check for that.

[Bordercentrics]

I have a dog with BCC, and this bears no resemblance to it. The first clue would be the frothing at the mouth stuff. Sounds like an epileptic seizure to me. Another difference is the eyes. When a collapse is taking place, the eyes are normal and focused. Not so in a seizure. When a dog recovers from the collapse, there is no disorientation, like you saw. There are no lingering side effects to a collapse.

 

It is my understanding that the frequency of the seizures will decide if treatment is necessary. If they are very infrequent, they don't treat. Your vet will probably tell you to keep track of that.

 

But do let your vet know what happened.

 

Kathy Robbins

[Bordercentrics]

I have a dog with BCC, and this bears no resemblance to it. The first clue would be the frothing at the mouth stuff. Sounds like an epileptic seizure to me. Another difference is the eyes. When a collapse is taking place, the eyes are normal and focused. Not so in a seizure. When a dog recovers from the collapse, there is no disorientation, like you saw. There are no lingering side effects to a collapse.

 

It is my understanding that the frequency of the seizures will decide if treatment is necessary. If they are very infrequent, they don't treat. Your vet will probably tell you to keep track of that.

 

But do let your vet know what happened.

 

Kathy Robbins

[bcnewe2]

I have a dog that has seizures, we are not treating them as they are very sporadic and not often enough. Vet and I both agree that they are caused by stress.

But....

These are the things we do to help her after an episode

Her post-ictal period is very confusing to her. She needs to "walk it off" so that's what we do. I put a leash on her and let her wander around the yard. It tends to be in a circle which is fine with me. But she probably walks for over an hour.

 

During that time she seems to be starving so she gets dog treats and soon after a meal.

While walking we make sure to pass and offer water to her. Sometimes she drinks sometimes she doesn't

 

Those are the things we do to help her recover.

 

I also used to keep a notebook and would write down what she was doing before and during plus the time and date.

 

They are horrible to watch but the dog doesn't seem to be aware of them after. Just confused.

 

I'm sorry and I hope maybe it's was something else but if it is seizures don't give up hope, lots of dogs live with this and it can be managed if need be.

 

Good luck

[Kian's Mom]

I have also had two dogs in the past ( both cockers ) that had seizures. They were not related either. 1 was a Velcro dog the other not so much, but a day or so before they would have them the one was more Velcro if possible. It was scary for the first few until I realized what was going on. Still scary afterwards but I knew what to expect. I would just sit with her in my lap talk and pet her until she came out of it. They were really confused at first when coming out of it.

Not sure what triggered it as it could be at any time even just laying in the house. They would actually act drunk with this far away look in their eyes. Can't control body movement's and stumbled around. This is when I would try to comfort her.

One lived 13 1/2 years the other 14. Unlike the above mentioned dogs they were not overly hungry or thirsty after an episode. .

We also did not treat per our vet because they were so sporadic. And I also kept a notebook with all information as time, length, what was going on before and after.

Been there gone thru that.

Best of luck.

Jan

[Dana Nichols]

Just a note that if you see a recurrance, it's often worth taking a dog with seizures to a neurology specialist. One of my friend's field labs was having very bad seizures. She tried treating them with some assistance from her regular vet. She finally agreed to take the dog to the neuro. The specialist was able to determine that the dog likely had seizures from distemper, which no one even realized she had. They were able to control the seizures with meds and the dog is now 12 years old (old for a lab) and doing well.

[Laurae]

I had a dog who experienced seizures about twice a year, which I was advised was not frequent enough for me to treat with meds. He would also let me know a seizure was imminent in the day or two prior by being extra snappy with the other dogs (he was kind of a snappy dog anyway). It seemed to help him recover faster when I could give him vanilla ice cream directly following a seizure.

[juliepoudrier]

The thing with epilepsy/seizures is that they are very individual, so what happens with or works for any one dog may not be the same for another, and what happens with an individual dog can also change over time. Of the three littermates (one of which I own) with epilepsy, all presented differently, all responded to different forms of treatment (although in one case, eventually no treatment worked), and all behave(d) differently afterward. That's why a consult with your vet is important, and also keeping a journal to see if you can find any correlations between activities, foods, chemicals applied or given, etc.

 

J.

[baz2107]

Thanks for all the advice, looking at the BCC videos, it wasn't like that as she had no control over herself and wasn't even trying to move until she stopped shaking, it was after she stopped shaking she got confused.

 

I am going to keep an eye on her, she has been fine on her last 2 morning walks, as its a heatwave I'm trying to keep the ball throwing to a minimum so they don't overheat

[Tommy Coyote]

Two of my dogs have had siezures. Kep's were very mild and the only way I even knew he had had one was that he would start staggering around. I just kept him quiet it for a while and then he was fine again. It didn't happen very often.

 

Tay had a leg that would collapse. Out of the blue she would try walking and her front leg would just collapse. Vet said it ws neurological - also didn't happen very often. But then I read somewhere later that collapse like that can be the result of a siezure.

[juliepoudrier]

FWIW, epileptic seizures are neurological.

 

Vet said it ws neurological - also didn't happen very often. But then I read somewhere later that collapse like that can be the result of a siezure.

[Tommy Coyote]

I think he meant that her symptoms could be caused by several different neurological disorders The only symptom she had was that her leg collapsed and that isn't your usual symptom for seizure. But it was later that I read somewhere that a leg collapsing like that can be a symptom of seizure. She eventually had a grand mal seizure, went straight downhill and died within a couple of hours. She was 13. I didn't have an autopsy done but whatever caused the seizure -most likely a blood clot - was what caused her death not the seizure itself.

[terrecar]

My Whippet had very infrequent petit mal seizures--only a handful over the years, so my vet did not recommend medication. My dog would be a bit disoriented afterwards, so I kept him quiet and the room darkened (at my vet's suggestion) and he came out of it pretty quickly. My daughter's greyhound, however, had more severe seizures of longer duration, so he is on medication. The idea of a journal is a good one, as your vet will want to know the frequency, severity and duration of the seizure(s) as well.