Purebred or not?

[Elmo]

Hello

 

Everyone asks me this question about whether or not my dog is a purebred BC. He was scheduled to be euthanized at some rural shelter in the middle of no where and a rescue group pulled him (which I then adopted him through the rescue). That's all we know of where he came from at the age of 8 months.

 

8 months:

 

 

More recent:

 

and another:

 

 

I've been told he's a purebred and then told he's not. Reasons people have given me for him not being a purebred:

1). He has a smooth coat

2). He's mismarked (white tipped ear and white patch on rump)

3). He has spots (black spots on nose and legs)

4). He's too small to be a border collie. At 8 months he was 29 pounds. He's now almost 12 months and probably around 30-35ish.

5). I don't understand this one. He has a "happy tail"....I think she's referring to how his tail tend to curl a little over his back when he carries it up.

6). He has one ear up and one ear half down.

 

What do you think? He does try and herd and is a bit nippy-working with him on that, he's gotten ALOT better...I've even had people tell me he just has a little BC in him....seems more than a little to me.

[MaggieDog]

Lol all the reasons you've been given for him not being "purebred" are crap! Lots of BCs are smoothies, many have unique markings, a lot of have spots in various places, the majority of BCs are between 25lbs and 50lbs, some carry tails high, and a number have mismatched ears. All that said, I think from the pics he's prob a mix - there's something about his head structure that seems heavier than the BCs I've met. The true test is to see what he'd do with sheep!

[Tranquilis]

Well, let's see...

I'm far from the most expert, but I can demolish those immediately:

 

1) There are LOTS of smooth BCs out there. This one is kinda silly.

2) There is NO standard marking for BCs. Just common ones. White patch on the rump? Who cares?

3) Speckling on nose and legs is actualy quite common in BCs.

4) His size is well in line with typical BCs.

5) Tails are another "who cares" item. The biggest thing there is that the majority of BCs hold their tails low and close when working. But even that's not all the time.

6) Ears - Again, so what? Look in the gallery - prick ears, floppy ears, helocopter ears, and everything in bewteen, in all manner of mixtures.

 

Now, all that said, I still couldn't tell you if he's pure-bred. He does look pretty classic to me, but what do I know? Anyway, he's yours, and you love him, and that's all that really matters.

[Laurae]

From the pictures he looks like he could be a full border collie. Moreover, the reasons people gave to you to prove he is not a full border collie are horsepuckey, with the possible exception of how he carries his tail. Most border collies tend to carry their tails in a J down low.

[MaryP]

Well, all the reasons that people have cited are non-sense, but it's difficult to tell from your pictures if he is bc. I can definitely see bc being in him, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call him purebred. But again, it's difficult to really see what he looks like from the pictures that you posted.

 

BTW, I've heard the "happy tail" argument before, too. I've seen plenty of known purebred bc's with "happy tails." When they are serious or working, though, their tails will go down. My bc is the same way. He carries his tail curled over his back most of the time. But, once he is in his working frame of mind, his tail goes down.

[NCStarkey]

Hello Elmo,

 

I've been told he's a purebred and then told he's not. Reasons people have given me for him not being a purebred:

1). He has a smooth coat

2). He's mismarked (white tipped ear and white patch on rump)

3). He has spots (black spots on nose and legs)

4). He's too small to be a border collie. At 8 months he was 29 pounds. He's now almost 12 months and probably around 30-35ish.

5). I don't understand this one. He has a "happy tail"....I think she's referring to how his tail tend to curl a little over his back when he carries it up.

6). He has one ear up and one ear half down.

 

There is no way to tell from photographs if your dog is a purebred Border Collie or not. Observing movement and behavior would be a much better indicator than appearance, and even that does not prove with certainty that he is or isn't a purebred. Many Border Collies with impeccable pedigrees would be labeled as crossbreds if they ended up at a shelter, and many dogs that are very Border Collie-like in appearance are known crossbreds. As to the list of reasons that you have been given for him possibly not being a Border Collie, none of those reasons would preclude you dog from being purebred. So, to answer your question, your dog "could be" a purebred Border Collie, but there is no way of knowing for sure.

 

Regards,

nancy

[RaisingRiver]

#1-6 are all completely possible for Border Collies. So yeah, it's entirely possible your dog is a purebred - but honestly, you never know - All my dogs are not papered, so I just go with 'S/He's a Border Collie' - and ignore the skeptical looks.

 

And so that you know that #1-6 are completey bogus, here's a very thorough place to find BC looks/colors/coats:

http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museum/Perm...oks_Health.html

 

ETA: Fixed the wrong URL I pasted.

[Tranquilis]

#1-6 are all completely possible for Border Collies. So yeah, it's entirely possible your dog is a purebred - but honestly, you never know - All my dogs are not papered, so I just go with 'S/He's a Border Collie' - and ignore the skeptical looks.

Right. A Border Collie is as a Border Collie does - That's the final judgement.

[Elmo]

Thanks! I'll try and get some better pictures up (those are just from my camera phone). Overall, he has a delicate body frame (more light boned and sortof lanky). He actually prances a bit when he walks (I don't know where he gets that from-we just joke that he's happy to be alive). He's highly reactive to sudden noises...heard that was common for BC's and of course he tries to herd anyone that is running away. He rarely barks I wish he would do it more....you can ring and knock on the doorbell, and he'll quietly walk to the door wagging his tail. Only time he barks is in play.

[Tranquilis]

Those are all very typical BC traits, excepting perhaps the door thing.

[Elmo]

#1-6 are all completely possible for Border Collies. So yeah, it's entirely possible your dog is a purebred - but honestly, you never know - All my dogs are not papered, so I just go with 'S/He's a Border Collie' - and ignore the skeptical looks.

 

And so that you know that #1-6 are completey bogus, here's a very thorough place to find BC looks/colors/coats:

http://www.bmwmotos.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB...=1217329513/0#0

 

 

I think that's the wrong link

[Laurae]

Try this link to the Border Collie Museum:

http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museum/index.html

[juliepoudrier]

I think you could get away with calling him a border collie and no one could really dispute you. There's just no way, given the diversity of the breed, that anyone can look at a picture and say yes or no to being purebred. If he works stock and you end up registering him on merit with the ABCA then he would be considered a "purebred" border collie. Otherwise it's anyone's guess. The reasons given as to why he's not are as others have said a bunch of crap. But you need to understand that no one can look at your dog or any of our dogs and just by appearances say whether or not it's purebred.

 

J.

[PSmitty]

What Julie said. I call my Alex a border collie, but who really knows? I could just as easily say he's a mutt, but I *think* he's a border collie, so that's what I say. No way to know for sure, as he's a rescue, too. He fits the description of almost all of your 6 points, but as you've read, they're a bunch of hooey, and probably came from people who learned everything they know about border collies from either dog shows or "Babe".

 

Your little dude is CUTE! Hard to tell from the pics, but he sure looks quite border collieish to me.

[shiloh714]

about the tail thing, my pup has a "happy tail" when she's sniffing things, and she's a purebred bc

 

-Janeen

[RaisingRiver]

I think that's the wrong link

 

Oops, sorry about that. Stupid copy/paste. http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museum/Perm...oks_Health.html

[ShoresDog]

Gosh, every one those items except size (maybe she's too big!) describe Juno, who's an ABCA-registered purebred border collie. She has a gay tail while playing, but when she homes in on something, waaay down it goes to almost invisibility!

 

 

Her left ear is tipped with white fur.

[Elmo]

OMG, that's Elmo in tri color! Same build and tail thing (which does go down when he's startled/unsure/thinking).

 

[Pippin's person]

Hey Elmo,

 

Here's our smoothie with a gay tail (though not when working); one ear up and one half down; and freckles.

 

The thing that seems very common to BCs is that they have a "J" tail when it's held down. I doubt every one of them has that, but most that I've seen do. Still, like everyone has said, it's how the dog moves and behaves that's the real indicator. What you describe certainly sounds like many BCs. Regardless, he looks like a cutie

 

 

 

Your dog looks a lot like our smoothie's uncle

[Dakotab]

Bought this pup for a few hundred dollars, got told she purebred border collie. But she does have long hair it’s like medium. And she is blind in one eye

[Kandin]

I have a papered B&W. Her coat is smooth, and she often sticks her tail up. So those reasons are bogus. 

I work in the genetics field for the dairy industry, and a J16 (Full Jersey) can sometimes have white pats on them. This indicates that somewhere in their heritage they had Friesian in them, but they've been bred back to a Jersey. Same can go for dogs. So the white on the rump may indicate that somewhere in the DNA is another breed. Only way to know is with a DNA check.