wyndrunhr Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Is there any training of young dogs away from stock, (besides the obvious Lie Down and Recall) that's recommended to prep for actual work on stock? Some things that would come to my mind would be a left or right (or Away/Comebye), walk up, move away, walks off leash in rural settings, conditioning, etc.? Or do you all feel all the training from the beginning should be done on stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Directional commands and walk up are all done on stock, and need to be, as they are done from the dog's position relative to the stock. Before going to stock, the pup needs to know its name, have a decent recall (even with distractions, although that will all go out the window the first few times on stock), and be able to take a correction. The last is almost more important than the others. That's it, A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 All good life experiences are helpful in making a well-rounded dog. Jack Knox says a dog should know its name, have a recall, and be able to take a correction. While one Open handler I know has been known to teach some commands off sheeo, I've never heard it generally recommended. Of course, conditioning would be beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denice Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I do not think it is what they are taught before going to sheep that makes a big difference in how they work or how quickly they catch on or how easily they are handled. I think the biggest two things - Bar None- are YOUR relationship with the dog and its genetics. The more pups I am around the more I am convinced a huge part of the what the IS, how it will work, its attitude toward sheep ect comes from the parents. It surprises me how little quirky behaviors are genetic, it does not surprise me how the outrun, pace, flanks ect are genetic. Not saying you cant enhance or discourage the natural instincts a pup is born with. Training will affect things no doubt. When you get to watch young pups on sheep who are working and thinking not just chasing you see how the flanks are naturally, the pace, gather ect even before you are a center element to the pups herding picture. It is quite amazing to watch. The relationship you have with the pup will be the most important thing. Does the pup know you are in charge or does he think he is. Does he do as asked or is he always trying the opposite? A pup that knows and respects your leadership role will look to you when unsure and all that is needed is encouragement. When you correct him he will think about what was wrong and try to figure it out. With dogs that are in charge - pulling on the lead, barking, not coming when called... Then you have baggage when you begin to work sheep and all those things have to addressed. The dog enters the pasture with the wrong attitude so often corrections have to be tougher. I let my pups tell me when they are ready to work. If they are serious about sheep I can see it from outside the pasture. My last litter started between 3.5 and 4.5 months old. They didn't know much but their names and to come when asked and they knew AHH, and that a girl/boy from simply living in the house and everyday interaction. All the little thing the dogs learn can help. My dogs know Back because I use it inside to ask them back away from the door. Doesn't take much to take that and apply it to sheep later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I'm hopefully going to be starting lessons over the winter with Derek Scrimgeour who bred my 14 month old youngster. I haven't done it before partly because I'm very busy over the summer but mainly because I didn't think he was ready either physically or mentally. I haven't trained him to do anything specifically with a view to stockwork except a recall and a lie down and, good as they are under normal circumstances, it won't surprise me if they fall apart when introduced to sheep. I have kept him away from sheep because I didn't want to risk damaging his interest by insisting that he ignore them when out and about so stockwise he is pretty much a blank slate. I considered whether to train directional commands but decided it was pointless without sheep because I wouldn't be able to reproduce the situations where I would need to use them. We have done some competitive Obedience and he has started proper Agility training. I know some don't think that is a good idea but as a result I have a dog that can focus and ignore distractions when necessary and that can work at some distance from me with instant responses. Heaven help him if he had to rely on my body language because it is pretty misleading at the best of times. Tbh I have no idea if he will show any talent. He can be quite a soft dog sometimes, hard as nails at others when aroused. Genetically he ought to be fine but there are never any guarantees however good the breeding on paper. I doubt very much whether any of the training that we have done will have made any difference as to whether he will show an interest. Repeated drilling and brainwashing isn't my thing at all. If he turns out to be a dud that's fine - he's good at the other things and a really nice dog to live with, which is what I wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludi Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Derek is great, you will love the lessons. It's good that you're choosing to start with him given your youngster's personality. It'll be a good fit, hopefully! One thing Derek teaches in his videos is getting a dog to make a beeline for you when you crouch down and call it in with a "Here, here" command in a gentle voice. It can shave time off teaching the shed - you obviously won't start with that, but it's a good tool to have regardless. I end up using it in daily life when I need to call Lady off something and she ignores her name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Looking forward to it. There are nearer trainers but I reckoned Derek would know how to handle him. Still only an hour and a quarter and an easy drive. He already has an In command to come towards me through a narrow gap so if we get that far we'll see if it's transferable. Just ordered Derek's "Talking Sheepdogs" so I can do a bit of homework beforehand and hopefully not look too much of a fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Dear Ms. Mum, Wishing you and your young dog the best which Derek is. Enjoy. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Thank you. I'm keeping an open mind and won't be devastated if it doesn't work out. At least I'll know and won't always wonder. Someone on an Agility forum here said that she started off with a try it out session 8 years ago and ended up giving up her job to become a shepherd and this year competed in the English Nationals. That won't be me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 "That won't be me." Ha! You never know! It is a very slippery slope. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I think I'm safe as I can't see anyone rushing to hire an elderly newbie shepherd. I've no hankering to spend my life with sheep either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludi Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 It is indeed a slippery slope! I hadn't seen a sheep -ever- until I was 26 and on Instinct test day with Lady. And now I'm working part-time on a sheep farm! These silly beasts have a way of worming into one's heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I've seen more than enough sheep to last me several lifetimes. They are everywhere you look here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 Going to have to shelve my plans for a bit as my dog has DNA tested as IGS affected and he needs time to catch up with physical development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 If your dog is not symptomatic, why would you have to postpone his training? Even if he is symptomatic, regular B12 injections should take care of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 His physical weakness mainly. He just isn't as fit as I would like. Needs more muscle and stamina. When I was thinking of it originally I thought that was how he was going to be and was quite prepared for him not to be up for it but now I am optimistic that his physical condition and mental attitude will improve so I don't want to set him up to fail by challenging him before he is in better shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 That makes sense. Although sheepdog training itself contributes to building muscle and stamina, I can see where you'd rather go into it feeling confident that he is physically able to handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 The sheep would probably just laugh at him if he tried it now. I keep thinking of Babe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 First lesson with Derek on Thursday. We'll see how it goes and if it looks like it wouldn't Be a total waste of time æ 2 day clinic at the end of Nov to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Keep us posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 I've bought new waterproofs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Just found out that three friends took their dogs to æ trainer on Monday to try them out. The trainer is æ nearer one to me and has been recommended by others. I'm told one dog was show bred and ended up with several mouthfuls of wool. Another was farm bred and only interested in looking for toys to play with after several years of agility and being taught to ignore sheep. The third dog was sport bred and also an old hand at agility and that one was very good - calm, focussed ad confident, even getting the sheep off the fence. The owner of the farm dog thinks her younger dog would be a better bet and is prepared to share the cost of lessons with me, which would be great. Same age as mine and would be a total beginner too without too much agility baggage as yet. I was never going to be able to afford to train with Derek regularly enough either financially or timewise, but the occasional lesson or clinic with him supplemented by local training would be a good compromise. Also would mean that training wouldn't be interrupted by Derek's absences. Sounds a good plan in theory to me - just need for my dog to show a bit of potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Sounds like a plan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Well my main concern was that I might get Risk started and not be able to train him often enough to get control in the presence of stock. At least now I know more training is a possibility if it works out. Up to now he hasn't been exposed to sheep in any significant way or taught to ignore them. It hasn't been necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.