breeding "mixes" for competition

[eclare]

Also...and this may simply be my limited experience with a few dogs - but, when you cross a dog that is bred to be willing to nip and use it's mouth (like an Aussie) with a breed that is known to have a hard mouth, tenacity, and less bidability (like a Staff or JRT) - is that a good thing?

 

 

The one thing that I have heard (and experienced) with bc/staff mixes is that you tend to see an excellent combination of biddability and gameness/drive. In my experience this makes the early learning stages of agility so incredibly easy. A well raised game dog will generally learn even the most difficult contact obstacles (A-frame, teeter) in a single session because they have absolutely no fear. Back when we first started doing agility only two dogs from a class of twelve were able to advance on to a higher level class without taking an intermediate introductory class (designed to build confidence on individual obstacles). Those dogs were Daisy (BC/pit mix of unknown origin) and a purebred JRT.

 

I also think that a cross like this would be easier for a novice agility handler because they tend to be less sensitive to minor mistakes in body position. There's one absolutely brilliant and talented border collie in our current class that never has a clean run because his handler is never consistent in his body movements. The instructor likes to call this dog a "lambourgine" who needs only the most subtle of cues to figure out what he needs to do, but the poor guy handling him always seems to have his feet or shoulders pointed too far in whatever direction. Daisy, in contrast, is much much more forgiving. She'll never be a superstar - she won't run a course fast enough, despite her incredible physical speed (she really should be a flyball dog), because she takes her time to figure out what the heck I'm asking her to do. This gives me plenty of time to adjust my cues to her and give her a definite command.

 

As someone else said upthread, mixes may never set the agility world on fire, so maybe it makes less sense for a talented and experienced handler to breed or buy a bc/terrier hybrid designed specifically for this purpose. But I thank my lucky stars every day that the little black dog I rescued has turned into the perfect agility partner for a newbie like myself.

 

More importantly, she's a pretty spectacular companion, too

 

PS - I just wanted to add that I wouldn't advocate buying a designer bred dog just to learn agility with. I'm a hardcore rescue fanatic who views dog sports as a means of bonding with my pet and keeping her busy little brain well occupied. I just wanted to respond to the concern about adding a terrier personality into a stock working breed.

[Shetlander]

What really bugs me is when I hear agility competitors describing their dogs as "working" dogs. It isn't work and it never will be. Self-delusion of the worst kind. Similarly the people who claim that their dog "lives for agility". No it doesn't - it lives for the chance to do something active and interesting - it could just as easily be another activity or even just being a dog.

 

The handler who claims that is the one who lives for agility and is projecting their feelings onto the dog.

 

As far as calling sports dogs, "working" dogs, I think most people mean it in a loose sense of the word. I've been known to joke that my dogs "work for their supper" when in fact I am obviously the sap working for my dogs. Back when I did agility, I'd tell my dogs we were going to go "work" and they knew I meant play/train agility. I find it interesting that people who object to the term "Barbie" are often told here that they are taking it all wrong, no insult is meant to their dog and they're choosing to be offended. Any suggestion that Barbie is counterproductive to discussing the importance of breeding for stockwork is at times dismissed out of hand. But a non stockdog person's casual everyday use of a term like "working" is sometimes seen as insulting to dogs who truly work. Of course, I know that some sports people probably do believe their dogs are working as much as a dog who works stock. I agree they are off base. I think of agility dogs as athletes. My vet certainly views Quinn as having the thigh muscles of Apolo Ohno.

 

Without seeing myself as projecting, I've observed dogs who do really seem to love agility or some other sport, as well as those who simply enjoy the activity. They all have their preferences. Quinn is game for most activities. Working sheep is absolutely at the top of his list of things to do. Sadly for him, he is a sports bred dog living in a subdivision. Frisbee is his next favorite thing to do, followed by any kind of fetch, then agility and so forth. But I've personally known a number of dogs that really do seem to light up for agility more than anything else. I had one of those dogs and after losing him, the sport was never quite the same for me.

[Root Beer]

As far as calling sports dogs, "working" dogs, I think most people mean it in a loose sense of the word.

 

I don't refer to my dogs as "working" dogs, but when we train, we "work". Even though the training is mainly for sports, the training itself is work. It is work that my dogs and I enjoy immensely. But it's still work - sports are fun, but they are also disciplines. The training that is necessary to be successful (whatever your definition of success!) requires structure and specific steps to be followed to get the desired outcome. Of course, I mix some play in with that work, but there is still a substantial amount of work done.

[The Good Shepherd]

Well it was about time for this topic to come up again. What's it, about once every couple months we see someone on here shocked at the purposeful breeding of mixes? I like how now it's getting blamed on the AKC though, that's a nice twist lol. Couldn't be further from the truth though, as it's been around for awhile now as others have stated. I'm not going to rehash everything I've previously written about this since there is that handy search feature, but I will say that my Border Staffy as a puppy is easier to live with than my purebred BCs. For example, he's slept through the night since I got him at 8 weeks, in my bed not even in a crate. My BC Wick didn't do that until she was about 4 years old. Even at 7.5, Wick is still a higher maintenance dog than my Border Staffy at almost 7 months. So yeah, better watch out for that over-the-top sport mix who's currently fast asleep while my BCs pace and wander looking for toys and attention. lol And that's the norm BTW for BSs, at least the ones I've known (about 10). Best off-switch I've ever seen, but up to whatever task is at hand when you need them to be "on."

 

And to the OP who didn't even realize breeders breed purebreds purely for sport, I only have to ask, where have you been? Oh and you will start to see more Border Staffies in agility, since they're becoming more popular in that sport. Just in the litter I got mine from, most were going to agility (and combo agility/flyball) homes.

 

And what's this about agility not being useful? What else are fat bored middle-aged women going to do for exercise???!?!?!? But seriously, it's a great hobby that does get people out there moving. I've known many who get in shape just for agility. It's a motivating sport, so yeah many consider it "useful."

 

Here's my cutie pie BS at 6.5 months:

 

Edit - here's a direct link to what I posted previously on this topic:

http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.p...mp;#entry314534

what's funny is writing that post is what made me realize I wanted to get a BS. ;-)

 

 

Will you be running your Border Staffy in AKC Agility?

[2 Devils]

There are some dogs that do live for dogsports. My acd absolutely loves flyball. We have tried to retire her from the sport 2-3 tmes now. Each time within 4-6 months she has a major temperament change. She goes from pretty much ignoring my other dogs to actually attacking my poodle. Plyaing frisbee or ball was not enough for her. She needed her flyball. As soon as we started playing flyball again she went back to ignoring the other dogs even if she only got a couple races over the weekend. It is what truly makes her happy.

 

Yes we tried herding with her years ago and she really saw no point in sheep. She comes from a cattle farm and I do believe if I could have taken her to cow herding lessons she may have done much better but sheep were useless in her mind. We tried for months and nada and this was before flyball. It was one reason we got into flyball because she needed an outlet.

 

So yeah, you may not consider it life or death but for some reason my acd does. The day I have to retire her for good is going to a bad day because I know what she will become and we know either she will have to move to my mom's or the poodle will move to mom's.

[mum24dog]

So yeah, you may not consider it life or death but for some reason my acd does.

 

Do you think that may be because she has had too much of it in her life?

The only dogs I know that have had trouble adjusting to retirement are those that have been used mainly to a routine of training and competition throughout their life.

 

Pam

[Rave]

Will you be running your Border Staffy in AKC Agility?

 

Hells no. I hate ACK and will never support them with either my purebreds or mixed breeds.

[Shetlander]

The day I have to retire her for good is going to a bad day because I know what she will become and we know either she will have to move to my mom's or the poodle will move to mom's.

 

Do you think she might reach an age where she mellows out enough that she'll be ok with retirement? How old is she now? I mean, eventually she's going to wind down a bit, right?

[2 Devils]

I don't think it is because she has had too much flyball in her life. She has had more frisbee and ball play than flyball. She is lucky to get 10-12 tournaments a year and she rarely goes to practice any more and hasn't for years.

 

Foster is 11.5 yrs old now and still running pretty darn good especially considering she has had TPLO on both knees. We tried to retire her a couple years before her 2nd TPLO to well avoid blowing it but she just wouldn't let us.

 

Some dogs are just meant to do what they do and that makes them happy. In Foster's case, flyball is what she loves best.