Dog aggression

[IPSY]

Should dogs that are dog aggressive be allowed in sports where close contact is a definate possibility ?

If the dog in mention has attacked another dog and it is deemed dog aggressive , should the club hosting the show deny entry ? I've seen way too many close calls at agility trials . These dogs are off leash and "should be" focused on their handler , but you can never tell when a dog has something else in mind once you take that leash off and toss it .

Should the next dog on deck wait out of the ring instead of at the start line while the last dog is finishing up the course?

I'm looking for opinions now because come the agility season time again , my clubs and others will be adding rules and precautions to their trials to protect exhibitors and their dogs from mishaps.

[mum24dog]

Before I answer this, I just want to get the situation clear.

I understand that dogs are expected to enter the ring off lead, or have I got that wrong?

Do you have a collecting ring?

Are your rings usually fenced?

How far is normal for start and finish to be apart?

What are the rules about the lead being available and toys after the end of the run?

What sort of "close calls" are you talking about?

 

Pam

[Brad]

All the above questions are good, but as a simple answer, I think aggression (or close proximity) is easily managed in agility. I know that if I was asked to wait outside the ring so that a dog that had "proximity issues" could run a course, I'd be fine with that. All the local trials are well contained with fences, including any staging areas. I would not exclude a dog from a trial for something that was easily managed; the experience of trialling may even help the dog overcome whatever is bothering him/her.

[MicheleS.]

I have personally seen dogs jump ring gating in both agility and obedience to go after or to another dog some ended in a dog fight, some didn't. Also have heard 2nd hand from many that have witnessed something like this.

If I feel that one of my dogs could be in danger or I'm putting them in a situation where I'm not comfortable for one reason or another, I'm erring on the side of caution. That's just me. I wouldn't hesitate to pull my dog from a stay line (in obedience). I also have gone back to my dog in a novice obedience stay line (without the judge telling me to) because I saw there was a potential problem brewing. For the record, it wasn't my dog starting anything. If I were concerned at an agility trial (which hasn't personally happened to me at an agility trial) my dog wouldn't be running.

I've also pulled my dog out of agility classes at a particular place because I felt Chase was the target of one dog in class and it just wasn't fun for me or for Chase. We're in a fun class now where we don't have to have eyes on the back of our heads.

I'm not one to make any waves so it's just easier for me to lose the entry fees, walk away and keep my dogs safe.

 

It's hard for me to say that an "aggressive" dog shouldn't be allowed to trial because I do believe that some owners/handlers have complete control of their dogs. But then again, things happen in a split second.

[Root Beer]

Before making any rules like that, I would ask, why did that dog "attack" the other dog? Was it a reactive response? What led up to the incident? What have the owners of both dogs done since to prevent such a thing from happening again?

 

I have a friend whose dog was jumped by another dog during class. This was completely unprovoked. She was off on the sidelines actually working with her dog at the back of the room and the other dog left the ring, bypassed several other dogs, and sought him out to jump him. That's a dog who needs some serious rehab before being in a class off leash. Should the dog never be allowed to participate again? I'd say that depends completely on the owner's willingness to take steps to work with the dog and figure that out in a reasonable manner. My friend did quite a bit of work and rehab with her dog after that, and I would expect the owner of the other dog to do so. I actually don't know what happened with that dog since she and I both left that training center shortly after that due to other issues.

 

On the other hand, spats often break out between dogs at trials. It is a lot of dogs in very close proximity under a lot of stress. Not every incident is a case of aggression. Blanket rules could cause problems for folks whose dogs aren't the least aggressive and were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

I think that education and clear instructions to competitors is far better than banning any particular "type" of dog. You could establish a protocol for the amount of space that people are to keep between dogs and enforce it. You could have volunteers at the gates to head off any dogs who might be leaving the ring (right outside the ring, so their presence does not affect a dog's chance to qualify).

 

On a case by case basis, it certainly might be appropriate to ban a specific individual with a dog who has a history of problems at trials, but I'd say that's almost more the job of the sanctioning organization. I would, at least, recommend that the club work in conjunction with the sanctioning organization in such cases. If the organization has not officially banned an individual, or a particular type of dog, it might not even be permitted for the club to do so. I'd definitely look into that.

 

Please keep in mind that there are MANY owners of reactive dogs and dogs with other issues who have put in long years of work to rehabilitate their dogs to the point where they can compete in sports. We know that we take a bit of a risk, but many of us go countless extra miles to make sure that our dogs remain safe in that environment and, conversely, that our dogs are not compromising the safety of others. Our dogs often appear perfectly "normal". Please don't discriminate against us because there are some bad apples out there. That's not good for any sport.

[Olivia]

I agree not to make blanket rules. I have a dog who hates dogs that rush right up into his face to 'say hi'. He will show teeth and make noise and if the dog doesn't back off there could be a spat. This dog will not leave my side and would never leave the ring. He isn't looking for a fight, he just likes his space. When we are at a trial we stay away from the crazy tugging dogs who's handlers feel like it's okay for their dog to walk backwards tugging and banging into other dogs.

 

One thing that really bothers me are the dogs who end a run, rush up and grab their leashes for tugging and are lead out of the ring tugging, without the leash ever being put on the dog. The dogs should be leashed, under control, taken out of the ring and then some play can begin. I've held up my run before to wait for one of those crazy dogs to get well out of the ring. If the dog is just hanging onto a tug there is no reason it couldn't let go and come running at my dog on the start line across the ring. There is also nothing to keep it from letting go and running off to jump a dog in the waiting area. I would make that a rule, that dogs must be leashed, tugging doesn't count, before leaving the ring and in all waiting areas. This is actually a rule in USDAA and AKC but most clubs don't really enforce it. I've been to one or two where the judges have informed the participants during the judge's briefing that the rule will be strictly enforced and it was great.

 

Olivia

[mbc1963]

I have the same "style" dog as Olivia. Buddy would go out of his way to avoid meeting most dogs if he could - and even with dogs he takes an immediate liking to, he's completely in tune to their body language, and won't move toward them if they give any indication that they want him to back off. If I had Buddy in an agility ring, he'd do the course with absolutely no interest - zero! - in going face to face with any other dogs. The sooner I could get him 50 yards away to a calmer, "safer" area, the better he'd feel, in fact.

 

However, if another dog charges him, he's all about driving them away. If they're young and/or stupid and don't listen to his body language, it sometimes results in a scuffle. Buddy has pinned a few dogs - flipped them (or made them flip themselves) over, belly up, and then stood there giving them a strong scolding. Scary, but no teeth necessary. Just a really strong dead-eye stare and a few seconds of penetrating, deep-throated growling.

 

So... my dog would likely be the one being labelled "aggressive," when really the problem isn't predominantly his aggression (reactivity); it's the other dog's cluelessness and refusal to listen to social cues.

 

So, I'd have to say, dogs should have to be under their owner's control, yes, absolutely - whether they're "aggressive" or whether they're "just so friendly they want to meet everyone!"

 

Mary

[diane allen]

From Olivia: "One thing that really bothers me are the dogs who end a run, rush up and grab their leashes for tugging and are lead out of the ring tugging, without the leash ever being put on the dog."

 

I totally agree. If you are competing in NADAC, you will NOT see this! A dog will be eliminated (as in, non-qualifying for that run) if the dog does this. Dogs can pick up the leash, but the handler MUST put it on the dog before starting to tug. And the next dog will NOT be released to run until the previous dog is leashed. I lost a hard-won Q once when my dog was "out of control" - which simply meant off-leash when leaving the ring. He wasn't of any danger - but another dog might have been, so I can live with that ruling.

 

Agreed that other venues should pay closer attention to this situation, especially when ring-side is very close to the ring, which happens all too often.

 

Back to OP - I don't think aggressive dogs should be banned, though if a particular dog or handler has had an "incident," a club would be totally justified in refusing entry. Some premiums even say so, "for any reason." However, it takes a village - or at least a group of entrants - to make this work. EVERYONE must manage their dogs, not just the "aggressive" (or space sensitive, or whatever) ones. THAT so frequently doesn't happen. I see two or more folks chatting ringside totally oblivious to their dogs on leash behind/beside them - sometime pooping, sometimes eyeing other dogs, and sometimes lunging which the leash-holder doesn't realize until far too late. If she were watching the dog, she could have stopped this in time to prevent an "incident." It's the old "oh, my dog is friendly" syndrome....but if mine is not, yours is a problem! (Just for the record, one of my dogs simply does not acknowledge that other dogs exist; the other is too friendly for his own good, hence requiring close attention from yours truly at all times ringside!).

 

Good topic.

 

diane

[IPSY]

Before making any rules like that, I would ask, why did that dog "attack" the other dog? Was it a reactive response? What led up to the incident? What have the owners of both dogs done since to prevent such a thing from happening again?

 

I have a friend whose dog was jumped by another dog during class. This was completely unprovoked. She was off on the sidelines actually working with her dog at the back of the room and the other dog left the ring, bypassed several other dogs, and sought him out to jump him. That's a dog who needs some serious rehab before being in a class off leash. Should the dog never be allowed to participate again? I'd say that depends completely on the owner's willingness to take steps to work with the dog and figure that out in a reasonable manner. My friend did quite a bit of work and rehab with her dog after that, and I would expect the owner of the other dog to do so. I actually don't know what happened with that dog since she and I both left that training center shortly after that due to other issues.

 

On the other hand, spats often break out between dogs at trials. It is a lot of dogs in very close proximity under a lot of stress. Not every incident is a case of aggression. Blanket rules could cause problems for folks whose dogs aren't the least aggressive and were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

I think that education and clear instructions to competitors is far better than banning any particular "type" of dog. You could establish a protocol for the amount of space that people are to keep between dogs and enforce it. You could have volunteers at the gates to head off any dogs who might be leaving the ring (right outside the ring, so their presence does not affect a dog's chance to qualify).

 

On a case by case basis, it certainly might be appropriate to ban a specific individual with a dog who has a history of problems at trials, but I'd say that's almost more the job of the sanctioning organization. I would, at least, recommend that the club work in conjunction with the sanctioning organization in such cases. If the organization has not officially banned an individual, or a particular type of dog, it might not even be permitted for the club to do so. I'd definitely look into that.

 

Please keep in mind that there are MANY owners of reactive dogs and dogs with other issues who have put in long years of work to rehabilitate their dogs to the point where they can compete in sports. We know that we take a bit of a risk, but many of us go countless extra miles to make sure that our dogs remain safe in that environment and, conversely, that our dogs are not compromising the safety of others. Our dogs often appear perfectly "normal". Please don't discriminate against us because there are some bad apples out there. That's not good for any sport.

 

Well said Root Beer . You made many good points and suggestions. I do feel there should be a rule banning any dog who has had aggression problems in the past. But who's right to do so is muddy. I think for the safety of others , a rule should be passed allowing a club to deem a dog dangerous .

[IPSY]

I have the same "style" dog as Olivia. Buddy would go out of his way to avoid meeting most dogs if he could - and even with dogs he takes an immediate liking to, he's completely in tune to their body language, and won't move toward them if they give any indication that they want him to back off. If I had Buddy in an agility ring, he'd do the course with absolutely no interest - zero! - in going face to face with any other dogs. The sooner I could get him 50 yards away to a calmer, "safer" area, the better he'd feel, in fact.

 

However, if another dog charges him, he's all about driving them away. If they're young and/or stupid and don't listen to his body language, it sometimes results in a scuffle. Buddy has pinned a few dogs - flipped them (or made them flip themselves) over, belly up, and then stood there giving them a strong scolding. Scary, but no teeth necessary. Just a really strong dead-eye stare and a few seconds of penetrating, deep-throated growling.

 

So... my dog would likely be the one being labelled "aggressive," when really the problem isn't predominantly his aggression (reactivity); it's the other dog's cluelessness and refusal to listen to social cues.

 

So, I'd have to say, dogs should have to be under their owner's control, yes, absolutely - whether they're "aggressive" or whether they're "just so friendly they want to meet everyone!"

 

Mary

 

It's hard to tell someone their dog was the aggressor when 10 people seen it a different way. It will all come down to who's dog has the most damage I guess. If no damage and no reaccuring incidents , no harm done .

I feel it's just a topic that needs to be addressed before the start of next season. I've seen and heard of alot of dog aggression lately and wonder who's got the right to actually do something about it.

Everybody's opinion matters and should be taken into consideration before something is written in cement.

[Jumpin Boots]

So not to hijack this topic, but this issue just came up in an intermediate drop in class I was teaching last week and I was sort of stumped by it. I had a woman w/ her young, hyper, friendly but in your face silky terrier bring her crate in and ask if she needed to put her dog in her crate when she wasn't running. I asked if the dog had issues or what her reasoning was and she said that another facility she goes to requires that all dogs are crated or put in their cars when they are not running or it's not their turn. The other people there had all been there too and said how long it made class go and how little was accomplished, I can only imagine. Is this something others have seen at training facilities?

 

I have had people crate in the past who had dogs that were either reactive or became over stimulated while others were running, but this was only for a while until we could work on getting the dog calmed down, focused on them and into the open environment w/ everyone else. My feeling is that if a dog can't be trusted to be on leash and under control while other dogs are running in a class environment then how will they ever be able to make it at a trial environment. In fact, I would strongly advice against one of my students attending a trial if their dog was still at the point that it had to be crated or removed from class due to reactivity or overstimulation. What would they do, drag their crate up to the ring entrance? I feel like as an instructor part of my responsibility is to help my students be prepared with their dogs while on the agility grounds, not just in the ring.

 

One thing you could warn all trial attendees, that I always warn my students before going to a trial; is to assume that all other dogs at a trial (or anywhere for that matter) are reactive until you know otherwise. And then that just b/c you meet the dog once and it's not reactive that you can't assume it won't be reactive the next time. I realize this may sound a little harsh, but I have gotten so tired of people who's dogs don't have issues assuming that no other dog does or that it's not their problem it's the fault of the one with the reactive dog that this is the direction I have chosen to take. As a club I would think that you could make very firm rules around your ring that could help with reactivity issues. No tugging in or out of the ring. Dogs must be leashed leaving the ring. Only dogs who are about to run being allowed near the entrance/exit of the ring, all others (including those w/out dogs) must watch from a different area. If you are holding a trial in which the association doesn't enforce these rules then you enforce them as a club; i.e. if a person is a known breaker of these rules they won't be welcome at future club trials. You could also have a club member worker be a ring police; reminding people of these rules and watching for people/dogs who are having issues.

[Brad]

Jumpin Boots, I've been to many training classes/clinics where dogs are crated while not actively doing something. I prefer this method, as it allows the other participants to pay attention to what the instructor is saying, and I find you can learn something new watching each and every dog. Never have I felt that there was any delay due to crating. My agility club rents a barn once a week for a couple of hours practice, and other than the dog running and the next dog in staging, everyone is crated. That way we can all watch and critique each other, not worry about whether are dogs are giving the eye to someone else.

[mum24dog]

Our UK KC is getting antsy about what it sees as a "problem" with aggressive dogs - largely because a GSD killed a Papillon at the KC's own flagship International (last year I think it was).

However, to put it in proportion, there have only been 16 incidents reported to the KC this year (and one of those I know was very minor and should never have got that far).

Those 16 incidents occurred all over the venue (what we call the site of the show) - around the rings, in the parking, camping and exercise areas.

Show organisers have no role in disciplinary matters other than to record complaints and inform the KC. I have been Show Secretary for 5 years now and have never had an incident reported to me. I'm sure there have been some but obviously not so serious as to require disciplinary action in the view of those involved.

Our shows are very different from yours, I think - ours with 9 rings is probably average. Some are smaller, some larger - several being held on any weekend. That's a heck of a lot of dogs around (about 1300 competing at ours, plus dogs not competing) - and only 16 reported incidents.

Outside rings tend to be marked only with rope. There are usually no collecting areas, just a queue, and the dog finishing it's run will most likely have other dogs around that it could attack if it was so inclined. Indoors this is much more likely.

We don't have any rules about when leads are taken off and put back on, although dogs shouldn't be off lead unless about to run or just having finished. Just common sense.

It seems that there is more opportunity here for aggressive encounters than where rings are fenced, but there are still very few, and I can't believe that North American agility dogs are any more aggressive than the ones over here.

Kristine has put it very well and this is a very valid point -

 

On the other hand, spats often break out between dogs at trials. It is a lot of dogs in very close proximity under a lot of stress. Not every incident is a case of aggression. Blanket rules could cause problems for folks whose dogs aren't the least aggressive and were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

I agree with Brad too - most aggression can be managed. My daughter doesn't queue with her BC - she gets someone else to do it for her. When he's hyped up he doesn't like other dogs invading his space. At the end of his run he has been taught to look for his toy and can safely run through a crowd of other dogs on a mission to find it if necessary. He used to chase anything that moved but has never left the ring to attack another dog running in another ring. He wouldn't be competing that that was ever a possibility. We have sweated blood getting him to that stage.

Where there is more opprtunity for aggressive dogs to get into a fight such as at our shows where physical barriers are rare, I think it makes handlers more determined to put the work in to prevent it happening.

If there are genuinely more incidents over there, maybe handlers are lulled into a false sense of security.

 

Pam

[Root Beer]

Never have I felt that there was any delay due to crating. My agility club rents a barn once a week for a couple of hours practice, and other than the dog running and the next dog in staging, everyone is crated. That way we can all watch and critique each other, not worry about whether are dogs are giving the eye to someone else.

 

The place where I train doesn't require it, but most of the students do crate the dogs when they aren't running. I'm one of the few exceptions. I keep Maddie with me and she just hangs out, and Dean stays in the car outside due to the noise in class. When I need to pay attention to a run or something the instructor is saying, she can lie on her mat at my feet.

 

It doesn't cause a delay, though. Most people get their dogs out of the crates while the person ahead of them is running. They do a little warmup on the sidelines if they are so inclined.

 

There are sometimes issues with the crated dogs getting snarky with dogs going in and out of the building, but for the most part it works out just fine.

 

I like that it's not a rule. I could keep Maddie in a crate during class, but part of the reason why I take class is to spend one on one time with her. I wouldn't mind crating her next to me, but if she had to be off in a "crate area", I would probably elect to train alone instead of keeping her in a crate for the better part of an hour.

 

And for Dean it's not an option at all. He can't be in the building, especially "trapped" in a crate (from his POV), when dogs are banging teeters or dropping bars on jumps. Rule or no rule, he would have to go out to the car where he feels safe. Makes trialing a challenge, but really that's my problem.

 

But, the fact that most of the dogs in class are crated has not caused delays in running during class.

[IPSY]

All the above questions are good, but as a simple answer, I think aggression (or close proximity) is easily managed in agility. I know that if I was asked to wait outside the ring so that a dog that had "proximity issues" could run a course, I'd be fine with that. All the local trials are well contained with fences, including any staging areas. I would not exclude a dog from a trial for something that was easily managed; the experience of trialling may even help the dog overcome whatever is bothering him/her.

[/quote

 

I've never seen a fence at a agility trial my dog or alot of other dogs couldnt jump if they wanted to.

Whats the difference between a 3 ft plastic ring fence and a 24 or 26 inch jump besides the obvious ? Dogs jump in and out of those rings all the time.

This may take the topic a little of course but....Clubs try to run their trials as efficiently as they possibly can. Getting competitors in and out of the rings is crucial when time is not on your side , like getting the judge back to the airport on time to catch his/her flight right after the last novice JWW . Now who here hasnt seen that before ? This kind of managing can get people in spats and dogs shuffled into each others spaces.

I had seen someone working ring steward and actually yelling at novice people to get on the line or on deck ..Now , did we lose focus , doesnt this supposed to be fun ? I have seen novice people practically stop breathing they are so nervous , then to have the nasty ring steward screaming at them to get on the line is just too much . They are understandably nervous and not watching their dogs as closely and things can happen real fast.

Competitors intently watching the runs of others and not paying attention to where their dogs is putting their noses.

We need to pay attention to others dogs just as much as our own . It's the atmosphere , it's charged and so are the dogs.

Any dog can have a "problem" with another dog at any time and wreck havoc at these trials , but where do you draw the line ? And who draws it ?

[Jumpin Boots]

Brad-I can see there being positives for the reasons you stated, but I think that requiring dogs to be crated is not teaching the dog to deal with being controled on leash with other dogs running and staying focused on the handler. There may be many dogs that are fine, those dogs probably don't have reactivity issues in the first place, but in my opinion, taking a dog that does get overstimulated or is reactive to watching other dogs and keeping them crated the whole time is not going to help with the issue in the long run. You can certainly use the crate in helping them learn to control their behavior and to help calm them, but I believe that they need to learn to focus on their handler outside of the crate. I don't feel like crating a reactive/overstimulated dog the whole time is going to resolve the issue, it sort of seems like a bandaid. I certainly could be completely wrong with this, but with my 2.5 year old who tends to get overstimulated very easily; crating or putting him in a car only frusturates his state of mind. I definately agree that watching other people run is a great way to learn and one can pick up a ton of knowledge by doing this.

 

I'm sure the waste of time between dogs coming in and out of crates/cars completely depends on how the instructor handles the situation and how well prepared the students are. I've never noticed it to be a problem when I've had or been in a class with one or two people crating, although I've never had an entire class crating so I don't know. But apparently where ever this location is the trainer must not keep people moving quickly b/c these handlers commented on how much time was wasted.

[mum24dog]

Crating at training is virtually unheard of here. You wait your turn as you would at as show, and I think Jumpin Boots is quite right.

Noise rather than reactivity is the problem for us - and it gets worse the more advanced the class.

That could be because the concentration of BCs and JRTs is higher than in the lower classes.

 

Pam

[IPSY]

Brad-I can see there being positives for the reasons you stated, but I think that requiring dogs to be crated is not teaching the dog to deal with being controled on leash with other dogs running and staying focused on the handler. There may be many dogs that are fine, those dogs probably don't have reactivity issues in the first place, but in my opinion, taking a dog that does get overstimulated or is reactive to watching other dogs and keeping them crated the whole time is not going to help with the issue in the long run. You can certainly use the crate in helping them learn to control their behavior and to help calm them, but I believe that they need to learn to focus on their handler outside of the crate. I don't feel like crating a reactive/overstimulated dog the whole time is going to resolve the issue, it sort of seems like a bandaid. I certainly could be completely wrong with this, but with my 2.5 year old who tends to get overstimulated very easily; crating or putting him in a car only frusturates his state of mind. I definately agree that watching other people run is a great way to learn and one can pick up a ton of knowledge by doing this.

 

I'm sure the waste of time between dogs coming in and out of crates/cars completely depends on how the instructor handles the situation and how well prepared the students are. I've never noticed it to be a problem when I've had or been in a class with one or two people crating, although I've never had an entire class crating so I don't know. But apparently where ever this location is the trainer must not keep people moving quickly b/c these handlers commented on how much time was wasted.

 

At my agility classes , everyone brings a crate or uses the stalls to contain any dog not running. But if a dog does have a problem when a dog is in the ring , my trainer will want the owner to work with that dog on the sidelines.

Of course if there was a risk , she would ask the person running at the time if they had a problem with that dog working on the sideline. I have also witnessed her telling a owner that her/his dog is too much of a risk to be off leash at any time.

I too like to have my dog on leash while watching others run . It is a great oportunity to work on focus .

[Liz P]

As someone who has owned several dogs who were attacked (puncture wounds, deep bruising of soft tissue and the trachea, and a shoulder ripped open) I have a very low tolerance for aggression. I am not talking about dog A trying to bite dog B for getting in his face, or dogs A and B getting in a quick scuffle and maybe leaving a few cuts on ears. If a dog runs out of the ring or across the ring to attack another dog, I would be of the opinion that the dog should be excused and asked to not come back. Some dogs will never have the temperament to be able to handle sports in public places. I wish owners would accept those dogs for who they are and not put other people's animals in danger. It is not fair to the other competitors and their dogs.

 

You can agree with my opinion or not, but please respect that other people may feel the same way I do because they have had similar experiences. If you have seen your dog in the mouth of another, gasping and turning blue while you fight save his life, then you might not be so tolerant of out of control dogs.

[Brad]

Oh, I agree crating a reactive dog in a training class may very well aggravate the problem, and perhaps not the way to go. I'm lucky in that I take semi private agility classes, and the crate I use doesn't have a door. Rig has his turn working through our exercise, then he heads back to his crate and watches the other dog we work with. We do have monthly fun days at the training field where we'll have 6 dogs working out at the same time, and they all focus very well on their handlers.

When I took an obedience class years ago, we had 5 dogs in the large room, and each dog was crated in the supplied crates with the handlers sitting beside them. So no time lost, and everyone could focus on the training lecture (keep in mind these are mostly people that are trying to teach a sit, not pro handlers that can watch a dog and listen at the same time )

But, we're going of topic, I think

[mum24dog]

If a dog runs out of the ring or across the ring to attack another dog, I would be of the opinion that the dog should be excused and asked to not come back.

 

But even then, most instances where a dog runs into a ring are either inexperienced dogs wanting to play or stimulated to chase by movement.

It shouldn't happen but in most cases it can be trained out.

It's important to make a distinction between the running out of a ring and into another and what happens when the dog gets there.

 

Pam

[Brad]

If a dog runs out of the ring or across the ring to attack another dog, I would be of the opinion that the dog should be excused and asked to not come back. Some dogs will never have the temperament to be able to handle sports in public places. I wish owners would accept those dogs for who they are and not put other people's animals in danger. It is not fair to the other competitors and their dogs.

 

Oh, I agree completely. If a dog presents a real likelihood of attacking another participating dog, it should not be there. My management suggestions are simply to avoid the accidental encounters that "might" end with some snarling. Clearly aggressive dogs should not be in situations where they can hurt or kill other dogs, IMO. I guess that's also part of managing your dogs....

[IPSY]

As someone who has owned several dogs who were attacked (puncture wounds, deep bruising of soft tissue and the trachea, and a shoulder ripped open) I have a very low tolerance for aggression. I am not talking about dog A trying to bite dog B for getting in his face, or dogs A and B getting in a quick scuffle and maybe leaving a few cuts on ears. If a dog runs out of the ring or across the ring to attack another dog, I would be of the opinion that the dog should be excused and asked to not come back. Some dogs will never have the temperament to be able to handle sports in public places. I wish owners would accept those dogs for who they are and not put other people's animals in danger. It is not fair to the other competitors and their dogs.

 

You can agree with my opinion or not, but please respect that other people may feel the same way I do because they have had similar experiences. If you have seen your dog in the mouth of another, gasping and turning blue while you fight save his life, then you might not be so tolerant of out of control dogs.

Liz P , Im very sorry you had such a experience. I cant even imagine the pain you felt.

This is exactly what my club wants to avoid. They dont want to start a war between whats morally correct and whos rights are being stomped on , but who's responsible to let a club know if there is a aggressive dog attending the trial ? I dont ever want to see someones dog being carried off the grounds to a emergency clinic because of a aggressive dog.

Should there be some sort of CGC type of class the dogs must take to participate in agility events ? Can we weed out those types of dogs with such a requirement ?

[Blackdawgs]

I believe that many, if not all, agility venues in the US have provisions that allow a dog to be banned from competing in that venue for aggression. A few years ago, at a local trial, a dog ran out of a ring during its run and partially degloved another dog's tail. That dog was banned from the venue where the incident occurred, but was later observed competing in another venue. The owner of the victim dog was basically standing in a place where she shouldn't have been and running her mouth rather than paying attention to what was going on around her.

 

One would hope that there is a certain amount of self policing. Because the same people compete on the local agility circuits, problem dogs quickly develop reputations and exhibitors will act accordingly--they will know to stay away from dog X and to make sure that dog X is leashed and under control before another dog enters the ring. Exhibitors also need to be aware of their surroundings--some bad stuff can be prevented by just being more aware.

[Brad]

Should there be some sort of CGC type of class the dogs must take to participate in agility events ? Can we weed out those types of dogs with such a requirement ?

I think you might just end up weeding out perfectly good dogs from your trials. I know that after all my time and expense training for agility, I'm not interested in yet another CGC class. I just won't go to those trials requiring such criteria. You have to remember, that when participating in any event where there are dozens of strange dogs present, there is always going to be a risk. Dogs that perform perfectly well at CGC class could lose it over one particular dog that gave them the stink eye! And for those dogs that attack and hurt other dogs, there is always the first time, and it may be at your trial, completely unexpected by the handler. I still think the best way to mitigate risk is management. Dogs not running should be created or in xpens, or in the car, weather permitting. The next dog up is staged with it's handler, and the handler can be aware of the running dog going off course aiming at them and deal with it. IF a dog demonstrates uncontrollable aggression, you can then ask that they leave and not participate in (your) future trials. Honeslty, I think that's the best you're going to get.