Phantom gimp

[afrancis]

A while ago Skye developed this on-and-off gimpiness with her left front leg. If she has done a vigorous ball or frisbee session with me or if she's done a lot of running and chasing at the park with other dogs, she'll often come home with a limp in her front leg. It always goes away by the next morning. She doesn't become gimpy if we do low impact exercise, like moderate running around for an hour plus, twice a day.

She's 6+; its always the same leg and never seems to stay around a long time so its never been enough of a concern to bring her in the vet.

What do you guys think? Should I bring her in to see what the vet says (ka-ching$) or just chalk it up to a strained ligament or muscle that needs more rest in order to go away completely.

TIA.

Ailsa

[Chesney's Girl]

I would think that if it was a strain or sprain that she would be still sore the next day and show soreness in other activities as well. Maybe is a stress fracture? But then again I would think that it would show up in other areas of her daily life, like taking a funny step or something. I don't know. Hope someone else has something better to offer you! Hope she gets better soon!

[afrancis]

I would think that if it was a strain or sprain that she would be still sore the next day and show soreness in other activities as well. Maybe is a stress fracture? But then again I would think that it would show up in other areas of her daily life, like taking a funny step or something. I don't know. Hope someone else has something better to offer you! Hope she gets better soon!

 

Thanks Danielle.

I know, it's very weird. I don't think its a stress fracture since it seems to come and go so blithely. My first dog, Riley, ruptured (?) her cruciate ligament later in life (around 8) and refused to walk on that at all when it happened, so I'm deathly afraid of that happening again with Skye.

I had her on lead the other day at the park just to have her rest it, but when the other dogs started playing, the noises that came out of her mouth were awe-inspiring ... you'd be convinced that I was murdering her!

But I'll wait to hear what others might suggest....

Ailsa

[bcnewe2]

I know I sound like a broken record but a TBD test would be my choice!

[afrancis]

I know I sound like a broken record but a TBD test would be my choice!

 

That sounds serious Kristen, and I may not be reading enough, but what is TBD?

Ailsa

[stockdogranch]

Tick-borne diseases. There are a number of them; they are all nasty, and can be kind of tricky, diagnosis-wise--symptoms but no titers, titers but no symptoms, recurring (seemingly forever), lying sub-clinical for a long time then surfacing when some stressor is present, weird intermittent lameness, and so on. Always a good idea to check. Once you've had a dog who's had one, you never want to go there again!

 

A

[afrancis]

Tick-borne diseases. There are a number of them; they are all nasty, and can be kind of tricky, diagnosis-wise--symptoms but no titers, titers but no symptoms, recurring (seemingly forever), lying sub-clinical for a long time then surfacing when some stressor is present, weird intermittent lameness, and so on. Always a good idea to check. Once you've had a dog who's had one, you never want to go there again!

 

A

 

Okay, Skye has had ticks ... on two occasions. Both we had removed at the vets and didn't go further beyond having the first one sent away for analysis to see if it was the kind that carried Lyme disease. It was (deer tick, I think) but we didn't pursue it (more $$$ and we just thought it was a never-ending process).

Is it Lyme disease that causes it and/or other diseases?

What's a "titers"? And how do they check? Blood tests? She hasn't had any ticks this year.

Ailsa

[Oz Girls]

This may or may not help.

 

One of our girls (2.5 years) had a similar situation with on/off limping. It seems to come on after ball play with us or rough play with the other dog. It would display when she got up from rest, then she would hold up one leg up for 10-15 steps. In her case it was a rear leg.

 

Our vet believes the limping, which has occured since she was 9 months old is caused by an issue with her spine. In the first 2 years it seemed to alternate which leg was affected and sometimes we wouldn't see it for months. However in the last 3 months the fequency of her limping, the height she lifted the foot off the floor and how much further she walked before she put it down meant another vets visit.

 

Manipulation and xrays indicated that she had some slight damage in the ligaments/muscle in an area of her foot. Expecting that her spine had got worse I was relieved. However the likely explanation is that at some stage she got a tear and never got enough recovery time for it to totally repair. Drugs, crate rest, restricted activity, and now slow reintroduction of some freedom and she has had some improvement.

 

On a lighter note, I asked the vet maybe it was easier to just tell me what I should stop her from doing and his response "taking off very fast and turning on the spot quickly". I just burst out laughing, this dog is so fast she leaves the other border collies in her dust. Needless to say no ball games or rough or tumble with her playmates just yet!

[Rave]

Not saying it's not a TBD, but Lyme Dz causes "shifting leg lameness". So the fact that it's always the same leg, and TBD's from ticks from over a year ago would most likely be causing neuro or other weird symptoms at this point, leads me to believe it's something else. A good chiro can probably figure it out better than most regular vets, who just assume "soft tissue" and send you home with rimadyl and instructions to rest.

[stockdogranch]

TBD's from ticks from over a year ago would most likely be causing neuro or other weird symptoms at this point

 

Not necessarily. As I said, TBDs can lie subclinical for a LONG time (meaning they're in there, but not showing any symptoms at all), and surface much later to produce symptoms. Lyme is not the only disease caused by ticks--there are a number of them (several different strains of ehrlichiosis, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, and so on), and deer ticks can carry most of them, I believe. Titers--basically bloodwork that will show antibodies to a particular, say, tick disease, so that you know the dog was in fact, infected. But, with TBDs, you can have a dog who presents with classical TBD symptoms, is treated with Doxycycline (the standard Rx for TBDs), responds immediately to the Doxy, so your vet (and you) are SURE it was a TBD, but repeated bloodwork never shows anything. That's why I say these things are tricky. The best source of info available is an online forum called tick-L (if you google it, you should find it). There are some extremely knowledgeable folks on there, including some vets who apparently specialize in TBDs. The information there is phenomenal (and saved my #1 bitch's life almost 3 years ago).

 

Anyway, not saying that's what's going on with your dog, but it's always something to check for, and something it's important to be informed about. And if you found a couple of ticks, even if that's not what's causing this lameness, I'd check for it, anyway.

 

A

[bcnewe2]

About the shifting lameness. One of my LGD's had one leg that he would limp with on and off. I was getting ready to drug him and take him to get x-rays and other tests. Talking to my vet we decided to just treat with Doxy, and what do you know, the limp never came back. Maybe it was coincidence but doesn't matter to me, the limp went away. We chose not to test as he was a leary LGD so it would have been really hard to get him anywhere.

 

Mick is 5, when he was around 5 months old he was out with me at several trials. I remember him getting several ticks and even remember him getting a rash the the vets were stumped about. It didn't heal for quite some time. The rash doesn't really show up in dogs cause of the hair but this was on the top of his foot so you could see it.

 

Skip to about 15 months or so. I was activly training him. He started limping. Had lots of tests done but no one suggested TBD's as it was always the same leg. There was one x-ray that even showed what looked to be a fracture but later was determined to be a growth plate caught at just the right time that was closing. He was very agressive to other dogs and just seemed not quite right. So I decided to have him neutered to try to get the agression undercontrol. Right after that he had a seizure. Had more tests. Nothing. I kept working him an he kept getting weirder. Then I found a holistic vet that started treating him. He was all out of whack. After several months he switched legs and she jumped on the TBD test. There is was. Lymes and Rocky Mountain. He was on Doxy for what seemed like forever. But after 1 year he recovered to a point. If he gets over stressed i.e. heat, training pressure, trialing pressure or anything else that causes him extreme stress he goes on what I call tilt. His head lays over to one side and one eye gets very squity. I believe he has left over brain damage from suffereing the effects of long term TBD's.

SO that's why I'm so quick to test for TBD's. Or in the case of the vet I have now. If we had symptoms that we can't figure out, we treat with a round of Doxy on the just in case premise. Works for me, but not a lot of vets would be so kind, unless they've treated TBD's and have seen first hand how horrible they can be.

 

OK...off my soapbox. The test isn't expensive but as Anna has said, false readings can and do happen. I like to treat and worry later.

 

Doesn't mean I'm always putting my dogs on Doxy, since Mick was diag. I've had the LGD and Mick on Doxy one time. And we live in Tick filled AR

[afrancis]

Thanks guys, esp. A. (stockdogranch) for the reference to tick-L for more information -- so glad your own bitch is ok. I actually did find a link to that from before by doing a search. I think it was from in the spring when Kristen's LGD was having limpness in it's front foot (Lonesome?).

I think I will bring Skye in and talk to our vet about what might be going on. She's quite good, with a great bedside manner as well, and I trust her opinion. BTW, I took my first bc Riley to a dog chiropractor when she got lop-sided after her cruciate ligament surgery -- she hated it!!

Anyway, my gut thinks its more like what OZ Girls describes -- but like her, I hate being her "fun police" -- however, I will check out all the possibilities and follow the vet's advice (even if it means a period of low activity ).

Ailsa

BTW, Kristen how is Lonesome? Did you ever find out what was causing it?

[afrancis]

BTW, Kristen how is Lonesome? Did you ever find out what was causing it?

 

I see we were posting at the same time. Thanks for the information about your beasties. I'm glad they responded to the treatment. It does sound like TBDs can be insidious.

Ailsa

[bcnewe2]

Good luck Ailsa, I hope you find out what it is quickly and don't have to rest her to much, such hell that can be. I don't know if i'd rather have a TBD with treatmeant right away or some other mystery injury that we have to rest for ever with. After Mick's bout with TBD's they give me nightmares.

 

Can you pinpoint anything that she does to set it off. Really pinpoint it? When Jazz was young we had something simular. It was her jumping off the bed that kept her limp coming back. Once we stopped that and she grew a bit she never had the same thing.

 

Anyways...good luck

[stockdogranch]

Haha. I'm with Kristen. Once you've had one with a TBD, not only are you always leery of any weird symptoms, but you kind of get on a soapbox about them. My vet, also, is fine with just keeping me supplied with some Doxy just in case, or, with mystery symptoms, treating with a round of Doxy (although we've never had to actually do either).

 

Please keep us posted on what you find out,

A

[Ooky]

I have no ideas but Odin is having similar ideopathic (so far, anyway) lameness. It seems to be better since (because? ) we made another vet appt, but I am not fooled. Thanks to others too for the info, as Odin's lameness is shifting and I will ask about TBDs at the vets this week. I am glad you share Mick's story with us, Kristen, as it could help prevent another dog having to wait so long for treatment. Best of luck figuring out Skye's problem!

[Rave]

Well there are always exceptions to the rule, but my money is it not being a TBD based on the limited history given here. Remember tbd's cause systemic problems, not "sore after exercise, always in the same leg, better by morning" type symptoms as the OP described. I have chronic Lyme myself, so experience "shifting" pains firsthand, and gradual neuro symptoms, and having it lying dormant for year(s); not to mention having had a dog with Erlichia, i.e. I am the self-appointed poster child for tbd-awareness...lol. Even when it's lying dormant for that long, there are symptoms, although they may be be subtle, especially in a stoic dog. I am ALL for more awareness about TBDs due to my personal and dog histories, but only when the problem actually sounds like a tbd (no offense to anyone).

 

Just my 2 cents. None of us are vets anyway, which is who you should be consulting. G'luck. ;-)

[afrancis]

Well, after quite a restrained weekend, I took Skye to the park this a.m. and she played non-stop with her buddy Ned and a new Ridgeback puppy (who kept grabbing her tail, much to her dismay ), as well as the various and sundry squirrels that had to be kept in their proper place (i.e. up a tree) and she shows no signs of limping. I'm beginning to think that she has these episodes when there is jumping with impact on either her foot, knee or hip. I'm about to make an appmt with the vet to see if she can isolate where any tenderness or instability might be in that leg and whether she can offer me specific advice (don't let her do that!).

I'll keep you posted -- thanks for the advice and well wishes.

Ailsa