beyond angry

[Liz P]

I was on campus with my dogs, standing near my car at the edge of the hay field. My dogs were all on lead, laying down at my feet. I saw a dog running full speed toward me out of the corner of my eye. Before I could react a Pit Bull (or whatever Bully breed it was) had Sage, who he reached first, by the neck and was shaking him. I just reacted, even though it was stupid, and grabbed the dog's collar and yanked it into the air. It had a firm grip on Sage's neck and was still shaking him back and forth. Poor Sage was gagging and peed on himself. The owner ran over and had to pry her dog's jaws off of Sage. I can't find any puncture wounds, but this is the second time he has been attacked by a PB and I doubt he will trust strange dogs after this.

 

Do you know what the owner said to me? "This is a dog park. You have to expect these kinds of things to happen." Is she serious? 1) It was private property, NOT A DOG PARK! 2) Dogs shouldn't be "expected" to behave like that ANYWHERE!

 

And do you know she had the nerve to try to say my dog caused the puncture wound on her dog's lip? Her dog bit it's own lip while it was biting my dog! My dog was wearing a Halti that had his mouth clamped firmly shut because I was trying to pull him away from her dog. I am seriously considering filing a police report so she doesn't try to make me pay vet bills for her dog.

 

Do you think she would be responsible for paying for Sage to go see a board certified animal behaviorist (Dr. Dodman)?

[Laurae]

OMG!

Yes, file a police/AC report; yes, try to get the owner to pony up for a vet behaviorist visit!

Were there any witnesses?

Idiot!!!

[bc friend]

I'm glad you and Sage were not physically hurt - although I doubt you've stopped shaking from the trauma and anger. I would make a police report, if for no other reason, than to have a public record that a dog of this type was running loose. What if it had been a small child instead of Sage? The "dog park" excuse is ridiculous. I don't blame the dog - I blame the owner. And you did for Sage exactly what most of us would have done - scary thought. Poor Sage - minding his own business, on leash, on Halti - and still being attacked - you couldn't blame him if he didn't trust strange dogs!

[Liz P]

Yes, there was a witness, but she came to the park with the owner so is likely a friend. I would bet on her siding with the PB owner and trying to say my dogs somehow started the fight.

[lakbc]

I was on campus with my dogs, standing near my car at the edge of the hay field. My dogs were all on lead, laying down at my feet. I saw a dog running full speed toward me out of the corner of my eye. Before I could react a Pit Bull (or whatever Bully breed it was) had Sage, who he reached first, by the neck and was shaking him. I just reacted, even though it was stupid, and grabbed the dog's collar and yanked it into the air. It had a firm grip on Sage's neck and was still shaking him back and forth. Poor Sage was gagging and peed on himself. The owner ran over and had to pry her dog's jaws off of Sage. I can't find any puncture wounds, but this is the second time he has been attacked by a PB and I doubt he will trust strange dogs after this.

 

Do you know what the owner said to me? "This is a dog park. You have to expect these kinds of things to happen." Is she serious? 1) It was private property, NOT A DOG PARK! 2) Dogs shouldn't be "expected" to behave like that ANYWHERE!

 

And do you know she had the nerve to try to say my dog caused the puncture wound on her dog's lip? Her dog bit it's own lip while it was biting my dog! My dog was wearing a Halti that had his mouth clamped firmly shut because I was trying to pull him away from her dog. I am seriously considering filing a police report so she doesn't try to make me pay vet bills for her dog.

 

Do you think she would be responsible for paying for Sage to go see a board certified animal behaviorist (Dr. Dodman)?

 

 

No doubt she should be responsible for any and all vet bills. It doesnt matter if it was a dog park or not the dogs are expected to behave themselves or the owner suffers the consequences.

[Anda]

Liz, that is terrible. You should report this incident. And poor Sage, this is the second attack on him... how is he doing? What a morron owner, to say such a thing is normal, just because they're dogs! I'm so sorry for what poor Sage and you went through today!

[G. Festerling]

File a report NOW!!!!!

The owner of the pit is trying to snowball you. Even the dumbest person can not blame you when your dogs are on lead. I like pits. But owners like this is what will get people hurt. Ignorant and short sighted they are the ones that will get this breed banned!

Hope you and your guy are ok.

[WyoBC]

I would try and file a report as soon as possible. Sometimes if you wait they won't let you, if it's after the fact. I'm sorry poor Sage had to go through that. I hope he's ok.

 

I'm sorry but I would have gone off on the other dog/and owner. I have no tollerence for stuff like that. If it had been my dog that was in the mouth of another, the other dog would be hurting. I'm not going to let my dog get killed or hurt while the other owner watches, and blames me for it. I'm not sure about your state, but in WY if your dog (on a leash) is being attacked by another dog at large or not under control of their owners, you have the right to kill it. Not that I would EVER do something like that. But my dog is very importiant to me and there are some very aggressive dogs here.

[Guest jackieandryan]

Some people might get mad about my following comment, but it is truly how I feel.

 

If that had been me, the dog would not still be alive. If I was minding my own business and an animal viciously approached me, my dogs, or any other person and bit them with such ferocity, I would put the dog down with my bare hands. I love most animals as much as anyone on this site, but I stand by my opinion. If I have to choose between my pet's welfare and a dangerous dog's welfare, it's really a no brainer.

 

I don't expect most people to have the same mentality though, so I think you should have called Animal Control Immediately. You should definitely file a report ASAP. The dog is a danger to other dogs because the owner refuses to keep her aggressive dog on lead. Do you have a leash law where you live? Are dogs PTS after multiple biting occurrences?

 

It was probably pretty terrifying for you and I hope your dog is OK. I definitely think you should take an steps needed to ensure that this doesn't happen to someone else's dog. Good luck.

[ahoops]

That must have been a terrible ,scary and traumatic thing to happen to you and your dog! Please file a report even if its just a point of reference for when it attacks again, as it very likely will.It could be a child next time ,I am with the others, that dog doesnt deserve to live and the owner doesnt deserve the privilege of owning a dog especially a dangerous one !Hope you both are ok

[mbc1963]

That's horrible! I hate that feeling of being helpless as someone else'e unleashed, uncontrolled dog comes charging at us!

 

Hope you're all OK. Doubtless that PB owner will be dealing with a more serious situation soon! This can't be the first time such a thing has happened to her.

 

Mary

[3dogslater]

Dog-dog aggression and human aggression are not the same thing and just because a dog chases/attacks other dogs (squirrels, cats, sheep etc) does not mean that an attack on humans is just a matter of time. Nobody is looking at the border collie and assuming that because they are gripping sheep that the handler is going to be attacked the same way

 

I would file a report - that sort of behaviour is not acceptable and given the owner's response, she's not likely to change her behaviour or leash her dog any time soon. The report probably won't go anywhere if you don't have her name or license plate or other identifying info and bully is a pretty generic description of a dog. Owners like her are the reason we're seeing breed bans. Am Staffs, APBT are generally not dog park dogs and most responsible bully owners don't take their dogs to places like that. If she's got no recall, she needs a good trainer and a long line!

 

If I was minding my own business and an animal viciously approached me, my dogs, or any other person and bit them with such ferocity, I would put the dog down with my bare hands.

 

Not to minimize what happened to the OP, but a bite where there are no puncture wounds is not a vicious attack that would in any way justify you killing the other dog. If that dog had intended to seriously hurt Sage, the damage could have been done with a single bite, especially a bite/hold/shake. If you follow Dr. Ian Dunbar, the bite was a Level II on the bite scale with the attacking dog showing good bite inhibition.

[borderfreak]

Poor Sage! It reminds me on a likely situation I has once. When Bo was a puppy a Large Münsterländer came to us and SUDDENLY attacked Bo. The only thing what the owner had to say was "I knew that this will happen!" I was like "And why did you have your dog unleashed and let him go to my dog if you knew that?" her answer was a shrug. Stupid People!

 

As for Sage, these days you should absolutly bring him together with other dogs wich he trusts! And for the future take him off leash if there is a conflict with another dog. Imagine somebody wants to hit your ass up, but you are on a leash - you'll be more afraid than you would unleashed, you know? Most people in Germany are taking pepper spray with in case a another dog will seriously attack their dog. That might be possible "weapon" for you to save Sage in case of another future dog attack.

[vickim]

I can only second the file a report advice. I think I read that the OP was on campus; if the campus is state-run, it's likely public property (though not necessarily; it depends on what state you live in), but many campuses have a no-dog policy. Regardless of that issue, it is still not a dog park any way you look at it. I'm no fan of Pits, but my stepson has a Pit. Between his Pit and my BC, my BC would be the first one to bite. In fact, once when the Pit was choking on a stick, I stuck my hand down her throat to pull it out and she still didn't bite. I would not expect the same with my BC.

 

I do hope you get that Pit owner to pay any vet bills. I would be watchful for Sage to have a breed-specific dislike of Pits.

[kelpiegirl]

Liz

Like everyone says, file a report- clearly this woman felt no remorse. I feel for Sage, but just remember, you need to remain normal around strange dogs - they can feel our stress. Check Sage more thoroughly- he may have some bad bruising- I know, you are a vet, but that sort of shaking separates the skin from the body, and if you get a puncture wound, you have a nice space for infection. Do you have the woman's information? Poor Sage, and you. I have had the same thing happen to my Westie when I was a kid, and it really through him for a loop. He was in shock afterward- and I, a kid, was a blubbering mess.

 

ETA:

May have been stupid to grab him, but with the halti on Sage preventing him from defending himself, you may well have saved his life. Make SURE you put that in your report.

[Pat W.]

So I guess that since you should expect dogs attacking dogs on private property that is not in any way shape or form a dog park, you should expect to get shot at a gun range? That is basically the logic the irresponsible owner is displaying. I am sorry that poor Sage was again the victim of a stupid human. All I can say is THANK GOD there are no dog parks around me!

[ClickMeBC]

I'm going to echo, here - please don't hesitate to file a report. We went through a very similar experience and it's the best way to get through to this owner and her dog while assuring that you don't end up with the full brunt of the vet bills.

 

That must have been horribly traumatic for both of you - another dog attacking my own unprovoked has always been one of my worst nightmares, and having gone through it once before hasn't lessened my fear, but increased it. While people say the worst thing you can do is grab your dog in a fight, what you did for Sage is what I would have done for my own dog. It's hard to think beyond their safety in such circumstances! I sincerely hope he makes a mental recovery after this...

[2 Devils]

File a report. It is the least you can do for other owners who may happen upon this idiotic woman.

 

If something like this happens again, request name, number, etc... and if they won't provide follow them to their car and get a license plate.

 

And just because there are no puncture wounds to speak of, does not mean it was not a vicious attack. Grabbing a dog by the neck and shaking viciously is a horrible attack. I have witnessed this with my own dog. Charlotte was grabbed by a golden retriever while at a flyball tourney. It took 3 of us to get the dog to release Chalotte. The golden was literally choking Charlotte to death while shaking her like a rag doll. Charlotte only had 2 puncture wounds to speak of... so sorry a dog grabbing a dog by the neck and shaking it like a rag doll is vicious. Luckily, the owner and their teammates took full responsibility and offered to pay any vet bills if that was needed. They also provided on site vet care since one teammate was a vet. The owner of the golden never brought the dog to another tourney.

 

If something like that ever happens to another one of my dogs, I will use deadly force if necessary.

 

EDITED to add: Liz - you need to get Sage out and about as much as possible socializing with other SAFE dogs. Charlotte became fear aggressive towards dogs after this attack. I was able to manage her and her still compete in flyball but I could not take her where are dogs were out and about. After that first attack, Charlotte was attacked a couple other times by dogs from behind. She had a kick me sign on her and it sucked. She was once a very social dog until all the attacks and I did not know enough to help get her past it. We did start working on it but she died very young so we never finished.

[Ninso]

You should file a report not just to document the incident, but also because the dog may be able to be labeled dangerous or potentially dangerous and the owner may then be required to comply with certain conditions, such as keeping the dog on-leash, muzzled, etc. If the owner doesn't comply they could be charged with a crime and/or the dog could be seized. I don't know what the dangerous dog laws are where you are, but that's the way it works under my state's dangerous dog law.

[painted_ponies]

Do you know what the owner said to me? "This is a dog park. You have to expect these kinds of things to happen."

 

wow. She said this to you right after you'd pulled her dog off your dog, while your adrenaline was still up? This girl has little sense of self-preservation and is going to get herself hurt if she continues with that sort of attitude. Down South, she'd probably already be shopping for a new set of teeth.

 

I don't think she will be responsible enough to pay for any damages you suffered. Can you legally make her responsible? Maybe. I don't know the law in your state. But here's how the situation may play out: you take Sage to a vet to get him checked out and to a behaviorist if needed. You pay for it - those are your monetary damages. Then you take the girl to court - in my state, you could take her to magistrate's court all by yourself without having to hire a lawyer. The magistrate may give you a judgment against her or may not. If s/he does, you still have to collect. In my state, if someone doesn't pay a judgment, you can have her driver's license suspended - you may want to check with your state and see if there's a penalty like that and if you think it'd be worth your while to pursue it.

 

Can't hurt to file a police report, and if you plan to pursue any remedies on down the road, it'd definitely be a good idea.

 

ETA: You can probably talk to a personal injury attorney for free, y'know. Most do free initial consultations and will evaluate your case and tell you if they'll take it or not. After all, you may have been the victim of an assault if you were in reasonable fear that you'd be hurt. If a personal injury lawyer takes the case on contingency of course it costs you nothing - they normally front most or all of the expenses in return for a percentage of the award if they win the case. A good attorney won't take a case unless it has merit for this very reason. Of course, there also has to be a way to collect some money from someone.

[Lewie'sMom]

Absolutely file a police report and contact your local animal control also. If Massachusetts has the same type of leash law Michigan has, the woman was in violation of it. Here in MI, your dog must be leashed as soon as you step off your property, period. I would also bill her for ANY AND ALL expenses you incur because of the attack.

 

The offending owner needs to learn some seriously hard and expensive lessons. It's probably the only way she'll ever get a clue.

 

I'm so glad Sage or you weren't hurt but the emotional damage may never be undone to poor Sage. Stupid and complacent people need to learn and sometimes it's the pocketbook that speaks the loudest.

 

Best of luck to you. Keep us posted.

 

 

EDIT: ...as soon as you step off your property...I should have said, "as soon as you step off private property". my bad

[Mona Howard]

Geez, it's getting to where you want to carry sawed off baseball bat with

you so you can defend your dogs. Maybe you should carry one and use

it on the owner. Just kidding, don't take my advice! That situation would

really steam me. Poor Sage. Mona

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

For sure file a report or complaint against the owner, but not the dog. It's these types of people who should not own animals period, especially a bully breed. I wouldn't necessarily say it was a PB because bully breeds are almost as hard to tell apart as border collies, but it was a bully breed and owners like this dogs owner are giving bullys a bad rap. Here is a page I borrowed from Pit Bull Rescue Central that everyone and anyone who owns or wants to own a bully breed should know and I am proud to say that everyone I know who owns a bully breed does not take their dogs off leash when they are out in public and that is a responsible pet owner.

 

Oh, and I'm glad you or your dog didn't get hurt!

 

Where Education Meets Rescue

Some people bring their pit bulls to off-leash dog parks because they want to show the world how wonderful they are and dispel the rumors and negative media hype. They trust their dogs because they haven't (yet) shown any aggression towards anything. This is irresponsible and here's why...

 

It is a FACT that our pit bulls, AmStaffs and pit mixes come with a built-in fighting heritage. It doesn’t matter where we get them from, whether it be the pound, a stray we pick up, or a puppy we buy from a breeder. The majority of pit bulls will, at some point in their lives, exhibit some degree of dog-on-dog aggression. This type of animal aggression is completely separate from human-aggression; a well-socialized pit bull is very good-natured with people.

 

Yet, chances are that a "normal" pit bull will not share his affection with other animals.

We cannot predict when or where it will happen and we can’t love, train or socialize it out of the dog. Pit bulls may not start fights, but they will finish them.

 

If your pit bull is involved in a fight at a dog park, it fuels breed-specific legislation and affects the rights of others to own these dogs.

 

Responsible pit bull owners:

* Research and understand the breed

* Don’t put other people’s pets at risk

* Keep their dog leashed at all times in public places

* Clean up after their dogs

* Vaccinate and license their dogs

* Spay and neuter their dogs

* Train their dogs

 

Other activities you can enjoy with your pit bull:

* Play fetch in an enclosed tennis court or baseball field

* Ride a bike and have your pit bull jog along

* Walk, jog or hike with your pit bull. Don't forget her bandana!

* Take an obedience class together

Respect your dog and the dogs of others...

Don’t learn the hard way what your pit bull is capable of.

[Liz P]

Sage's neck is black and blue and he cries when I examine it, but I can't find any puncture wounds, hematomas or obvious injuries. His voice has a slightly different pitch to it so I am somewhat concerned about bruising of his larynx but he is breathing fine. I gave him an antiinflammatory for the pain. His annual exam was already scheduled for tomorrow so I will have his neck looked at then unless I think he needs to be seen sooner.

 

I did talk to animal control. Because Sage doesn't have any puncture wounds they wouldn't do anything other than talk to the owner. If he did have punctures they would quarantine the Pit Bull. The PB is up to date on rabies, all given at rabies clinics, but has otherwise never seen a vet, which tells you something about the owner. They did add him to their list of problem dogs (they said they had about a dozen PBs on the list for the area). If I ever see that dog loose again I am calling the police.

 

Oh, and I don't care if the bite didn't break the skin. The dog had his jaws clamped tight around Sage's throat and didn't let go until pried off. This was not a quick bite, a nip or a body slam. It was only a matter of time before his teeth went through the skin. I think that Sage was saved from worse injuries because the PB was biting down on its own lips in addition to his throat. Knowing what her dog is capable of I don't think she should ever let it loose again.

[Guest jackieandryan]

Not to minimize what happened to the OP, but a bite where there are no puncture wounds is not a vicious attack that would in any way justify you killing the other dog

 

So if I came up and repeatedly punched you in the face, but left no bruises or evidence of it, I wouldn't be committing a vicious act?

 

I have a 10 lb dog. If a 50+ lb PB had him in his mouth even playfully, he could kill my dog.

 

There may have been no puncture wounds, but when you have to pry an animal's jaws off another dog's neck, it is a serious situation and I would always put my dog's welfare above the aggressive dog's welfare. It is really very simple.

 

If that dog had intended to seriously hurt Sage, the damage could have been done with a single bite, especially a bite/hold/shake.

 

There is no possible way for you to know that.