Frustration!

[MommaLove]

Juno is 7 months old and is in a beginner's low-impact agility class for young dogs. She learns very quickly and is quite enthusiastic, but...

 

She gets so excited upon entering the training centre and seeing the other dogs, I can hardly contain her, much less keep her focused. All she wants to do is race around and play, and at today's lesson she was so excited that she was jumping into the air & spinning. It is only when we go for agility class that she has this kind of crazy, excitable reaction.

 

I've spoken to the instructor several times, asking for advice on how to keep Juno's attention and teach her that she may not behave that way. It is a clicker training centre, and on the premises I am not allowed to give Juno corrections, not even "No". I was told by the trainer that I just have to distract and redirect Juno, and then reward for calm behaviour. The problem is, when Juno reaches this level of excitement, I cannot distract or redirect her. She totally ignores me!

 

I purchased Control Unleashed, and I am reading my way through it. I hope that it will help. In the meantime, I have asked the instructor for specific tools I can use to help keep Juno calm. I have received NO appropriate feedback.

 

The response has been -

"Persistence, dear, persistence."

"She's a border collie; they're hardwired to be a little crazy."

"It's that border collie brain of hers, she's just too high-drive. This will take so much work on your part."

"She's raw-fed, she's getting too much protein and it's making her wild."

 

What I'm looking for is a short-term solution for keeping Juno calm while I work with her further on a long-term solution. As it is right now, I'm so frustrated that I'm ready to drop agility altogether. Any input is appreciated.

 

(For clarity's sake - Juno is not like this in any other environment. She is highly obedient and very focused at home and in public, is doing very well with herding, and practices agility well outside of the centre. For some reason, she seems to think being at the training centre means it is PARTY TIME!)

[gcv-border]

You may not want to hear this, but because of the "no correction" policy at the training center, you may have to pass on this session until Juno is more focused. There may not be a short-term solution. (Hopefully I am wrong about this, and someone here will post a solution.)

 

I have heard of a couple of cases of dogs that could not participate in classes (although this was due to fear issues), so the owners spent the class lessons just working with their dogs to even get them into the building and then the classroom. You may have a similar situation where you have to work with Juno to get her onto the agility field without her flipping out. i.e. walk her towards the field and then when she shows OTT the excitement, reverse and walk away. When she is calm and walking toward the field, she can get rewarded - but if she starts flipping and jumping, turn away from her desired goal. I would also start her desensitization at the field when other dogs are not there. Then work up to the point where she can walk around the obstacles calmly when no dogs are there. I do not know what the training center's policy is with regard to being on the premises when no one is there. Hopefully they will understand how you want to work with the dog and allow you to visit at off-hours.

 

I have not read CU, but since it is so highly recommended, I am sure you will get helpful advice there.

 

Quote:

The response has been -

"Persistence, dear, persistence."

"She's a border collie; they're hardwired to be a little crazy."

"It's that border collie brain of hers, she's just too high-drive. This will take so much work on your part."

"She's raw-fed, she's getting too much protein and it's making her wild."

End-Quote

 

Aargh! This makes me want to bang my head on the wall. Has this trainer ever owned and/or trained a BC in agility? It doesn't sound like it. You know your dog best and will have to ignore some of these less enlightened statements. Remember, you are on "the dark-side". (This is a phrase that many people use when someone who normally trains another breed in agility, decides to get a BC for their agility endeavors. They have gone over to "the dark-side". )

 

Best of Luck,

Jovi

[puppytoes]

Orbit was exactly as you describe Juno; well behaved and focused everywhere else but in class. There he was a total banshee. I also ran into totally oblivious instructors (border colliewise). I switched instructors a few times and ultimately ended up working on tricks and obedience as soon as we entered the building and throughout the class when it was not Orbit's turn to play. It did help but it was never great.

 

When i did my first ever agility class with my previous dog (a border collie/lab mix) the class i was in was designated for herding dogs and the instructor ran border collies. While my dog at the time was not super high drive, the instructor was so great at channeling that drive into effective agility as opposed to just chalking it up to border collies are crazy. Also, I think because all of the dogs were similar breeds the energy was different (no little yappers going non stop) they never got crazy hyped.

 

I am interested in what others have to say. It could also be a maturity thing. Orbit was also quite young at the time.

[arf2184]

You want her to be excited about agility and training, but not to the point where she's out of control. If her overly-excited craziness lasts through the whole class session, you might want to try tiring her out a bit right before class, help her focus by burning off some of that energy ahead of time.

 

Get to class early and give her time to settle down before training starts. Give her time to look at the other dogs and sniff a bit before class starts. Its not fair to expect immediate complete focus from a young dog when her surroundings are new (for that day) and exciting.

If there is a fenced area where you can let her off leash and play ball for 5-10 minutes before class, use it. Or go for a walk/jog down the road or around the block before class.

 

Also keep in mind that she is only 7 months which is still very young. This is the time when you need to teach control, but also be aware that she will make mistakes and get over excited. Don't get too frustrated, be persistent, and let her be excited and happy...its a good thing! Just teach her that focusing on you while excited is better than being a maniac. It will take time.

 

Also, you said she catches on quick, so what does she do while the rest of the class is still working on things? Say you do 3-5 repetitions (which is plenty...don't overdo it), your dog gets it and you're still waiting for the rest of the dogs in class to 'get it'. Does she get herself all worked up waiting while your focus is elsewhere (on trainer or classmates)? If your mind is elsewhere, hers may wander too.

 

Meg used to get bored in classes if I didn't engage her so we did tricks or worked on a sit/down stay while the 'slower' dogs finished up. I don't expect Meg to focus on me 100% of the time, but if she gets distracted by her nose, I have to work harder to get her focus back, so I gave her something to do...usually something she thinks is fun (wave, spin, shake, stand-tall)...something that isn't too distracting to other dogs/people in class but is enough to keep her focus on me and keep her wondering what we're going to do next.

[rushdoggie]

Meg gives great advise. My 5 month old non-BC is hyper excited at dog class and we spend a lot of time working and rewarding calm behavior, teaching Look At That from CU so he can learnm to watch exciting things without losing his brain completely, and often leaving the class for breaks (with the instructors approval) to help him be able to concentrate and work.

 

7 months old is WAY young...I will often only attend a half of a class at times with a young dog because they just can't concentrate that long.

[Smalahundur]

Personally, I would not go to a place where people, be it trainers or not reserve the right to forbid me to tell my dog "no".

I think that´s the point to where a training method stops being sensible and becomes religious.

[mum24dog]

The problem is, when Juno reaches this level of excitement, I cannot distract or redirect her. She totally ignores me!

 

Of course she does. Once she has been allowed to get into that frame of mine it's too late. You need to keep enough distance bewteen you and the exciting thing for her still to be able to pay attention to you and relax. Then you gradually build on moving nearer.

 

If you punish her you will probably have to be quite harsh to get through to her if she is over excited. If you do that as she will probably be going through a fear period you could affect her for life. You may not but I wouldn't take the risk.

 

7 months is not an age when I would be expecting a dog to learn much new stuff. It's often the case that things they already know seem to be lost at that age, to resurface a little later once the hormonal changes have started to settle down.

 

As for not saying "No", that is training for you, not the dog. It changes your own mindset and helps you approach teaching her from the pov of what you want her to do rather than what you don't want her to do.

 

What I'm looking for is a short-term solution for keeping Juno calm while I work with her further on a long-term solution. As it is right now, I'm so frustrated that I'm ready to drop agility altogether.

 

I wouldn't have an over excited 7 month old working in class but I might take it along for a bit of socialisation and desensitisation, as gcv-border suggests. The frustration of trying to deal with a hyper dog could heavily outweigh any training benefit you may hope for. There is no short term solution other than not letting her get into that state in the first place but the set up at training may not allow you to keep enough distance.

[waffles]

Of course she does. Once she has been allowed to get into that frame of mine it's too late. You need to keep enough distance bewteen you and the exciting thing for her still to be able to pay attention to you and relax. Then you gradually build on moving nearer.

 

Exactly. She is way over threshold. Think of trying to calm a toddler down when they are having a full meltdown.

 

If it were me, I would get to class 30-60min. early. Open the car door but don't invite her out until she is calm (like almost falling asleep calm). Then start walking around the parking lot, walk away from the building when she gets excited and approach when she is calm. This all takes time. Don't let her get to the point where she is too stimulated to respond to you. You may not even get into the building. It takes time. You have a whole lifetime with her to teach agility and 7 months is so young. Control Unleashed is a great book but you can at least start now with not allowing her to get over threshold and work with her outside the building.

[bcnewe2]

The no "NO" thing is sorta hard. That would not be my choice...

Faye is a little crazy at times. She's not so good in the car. BUT, if I take her out and wear her out just a little bit she calms down pretty quickly. Can you let her run around before class at home or somewhere else she can get her Hebe Jebes out? It's her age.

 

Faye also knows a command, it's "settle" and it has some reliability. It's not a correction but said in a firm voice she knows I mean it. Can you say something like that in the class. Sometime when Faye's over the top I hold her head in my hands and make her look at me. That along with "settle" has her calming down quickly.

 

Best thing I've found though is a good run or play outside before we need to be calm and collected.

[Root Beer]

The problem is, when Juno reaches this level of excitement, I cannot distract or redirect her. She totally ignores me!

 

Sounds exactly like Speedy when he was young and he started in Agility classes. I thought he was ignoring me, too, but I understand now that it wasn't that he was ignoring me (which would have required a conscious choice to tune me out) - the situation put him too far over the top for him to control his own response.

 

I wish I had known that at that time. It would have made things much simpler.

 

I purchased Control Unleashed, and I am reading my way through it. I hope that it will help.

 

Did you get the puppy book? If not, I highly, highly, highly recommend that you get that one. If you have the original, that can help. But there is quite a lot of insight in the puppy book that is directly applicable to your situation.

 

Let me know which version you have. If you do have the original, I can direct you to certain sections that you might find most helpful.

 

The response has been -

"Persistence, dear, persistence."

"She's a border collie; they're hardwired to be a little crazy."

"It's that border collie brain of hers, she's just too high-drive. This will take so much work on your part."

"She's raw-fed, she's getting too much protein and it's making her wild."

 

Well, #1 is correct. Although without some clear and proactive approaches that you can work on, both at home and at class, all the persistence in the world won't do anything.

 

#2 - you will run into this attitude on a regular basis, regardless of training philosophy of the facility.

 

While it is true that some aspect of these issues are sometimes tied in to "Border Collie hardwiring", I've seen this exact same type of reactivity in German Shepherds, Aussies, Shelties, various and sundry mixes, Labs, Goldens, etc. etc. etc.

 

#3 - yes, this will take work on your part. Good training always takes work. That doesn't mean it has to be unpleasant. CU is a great approach to help make the work more enjoyable for both you and Juno.

 

#4 - I've heard that before, but have not come across any reason to believe that raw fed dogs are more over the top than kibble fed dogs. The vast majority of reactive and overstimulated dogs I've come across were kibble fed.

 

What I'm looking for is a short-term solution for keeping Juno calm while I work with her further on a long-term solution. As it is right now, I'm so frustrated that I'm ready to drop agility altogether. Any input is appreciated.

 

Can you go to the training facility when nobody is there?

 

If so, you could go and work on calm behavior.

 

Orienting going in the door

Relaxation in a crate

Relaxation on a mat

Off Switch Games

LAT with stationary objects

 

This would go a long way toward helping her. It might be beneficial, if you can do that, to drop the class for a while. If they offer non-Agility classes, the next step might be to enroll in one of those to work on these things with other dogs present. Finally, integrate them into the low-impact Agility class.

 

I know you are looking for something more immediate, but addressing the issue at the foundation is going to get you far more lasting results that will generalize better in the long run.

 

One thing you could try is having her go into a covered crate, and see if she can, at least, settle in there during class. From there you could progress to default orienting as she is released from the crate.

 

But if she can't settle in the crate in the class situation, then that would not be helpful.

 

(For clarity's sake - Juno is not like this in any other environment. She is highly obedient and very focused at home and in public, is doing very well with herding, and practices agility well outside of the centre. For some reason, she seems to think being at the training centre means it is PARTY TIME!)

 

Then she is exactly the kind of dog that CU was designed for. Based on your description, I would say that CU is the most likely way to help her.

 

It would be better if there were a trainer in your area who had experience with the program and could help you, but if there isn't, then the book is your best bet.

[frisbeegirl]

I don't know if everyone will agree but when Keeva was 7 months her energy level went into overdrive.

 

I had total recall by 4 months but at 7 months back to the leash until she understood come means come, and I will only say it once.

 

She is now 14months and I can take her anywhere without a leash. Of course she will run when we work with the sheep but if she hears my voice she is back at my side. Waiting for me to let her know what we are doing.

 

Patience and Consistincy are key.

 

Wouldn't take my Border Collie to someone that associates the breed with crazy.

[TEC]

Recommend being wary of a club or centre which advocates only one method of training. Did I understand correctly that clicker is the primary method of choice? Dog Training is a field, not simply a cookie cutter, one size fits all discipline. It requires broad knowledge and good judgment. Every dog and owner, trainer and environment is different, which implies that trainers choose (or vary) the training method depending on numerous circumstances. Clicker is a form of operant conditioning, but it incorporates only about one-half of that theory. Clicker is a limited category of the many tools a qualified trainer has in his/her kit.

 

It's possible classical conditioning may be good candidate for Juno. As suggested by others, desensitization/counter-conditioning can gradually expose a dog to difficult environment, so that he/she does not react so strongly. Suggest locating a certified dog trainer to discuss training options and methods. Have a conversation whether protein in diet can exacerbate hyper-activity in a young border collie. Well-meaning fellow students and instructors at the centre have clear potential to steer you wrong, or simply create frustration with inconsistent/inapplicable information.

 

My personal opinion, having experienced (and worked-through) much of what you describe, is that border collie drive is double edged. It allows the BC to rise to the top in dog sports, but also may require a specialized approach to their training, especially in first year or two. I dumped group agility for most of my dog's second year in favor of qualified individual training. It wasn't overly expensive in this area. We learned immeasurably more about the sport than we would have in group class, and we both moved along in our progression for the moment she was ready to train among other dogs. She continued to demand a good deal of my attention while on the sidelines, but was much improved. We had a great time in a group setting, and she was one of the star pupils.

 

Stick with it and remain Juno's advocate. Get qualified advice. I don't see your experience as unusual. The advice about persistence is good, but temper it with well-informed/smart persistence. -- Very best wishes, TEC

[border_collie_crazy]

Personally, I would not go to a place where people, be it trainers or not reserve the right to forbid me to tell my dog "no".

I think that´s the point to where a training method stops being sensible and becomes religious.

 

 

I agree.

 

you pretty much have to find what works. for Gem I let her act like an idiot(with me) then once the sillys are out, I give a light leash pop and tell her to stop it and chill out, but Gem is a Heeler/Shepherd and every bit of one. Happy when I competed with her was a tougher, the only thing that worked for her, was 30 minuts or so before any kind of serious training or trialing, I would take her nearby and threw a frisbee for half an hour for her, it was the only thing that calmed her enough to focus..I had to do it before everything. in Flyball that meant watching the schedual and taking her out before every race to run, in Agility same thing. I had actually forgotten about that when I took her for her CGN test back in July, and she was out of her mind during the test lol, she still pased and did awsome, but I really really struggled to keep her attetion and to keep her from jumping all over the tester etc..

[mum24dog]

My personal opinion, having experienced (and worked-through) much of what you describe, is that border collie drive is double edged. It allows the BC to rise to the top in dog sports, but also may require a specialized approach to their training, especially in first year or two. I dumped group agility for most of my dog's second year in favor of qualified individual training. It wasn't overly expensive in this area. We learned immeasurably more about the sport than we would have in group class, and we both moved along in our progression for the moment she was ready to train among other dogs. She continued to demand a good deal of my attention while on the sidelines, but was much improved.

 

Similar story here. At 10 months (we got him at 8 months) Kye was totally unsocialised and would go into a screaming frenzy at the sight of another dog, especially one running. He was so bad that our instructor, who should have known us better, said that my daughter (then 16) would never be able to do anything with him.

 

So she trained him on her own - except for the sheep that shared the field with our equipment. Fortunately she knew exactly what she was doing with him having 8 years experience behind her.

 

He wasn't worked in a class until his focus had switched from other dogs to the job in hand, and even then we had to start from scratch with his behaviour while waiting for his turn.

 

Now at nearly 7 years old he is much better but not perfect, and he has reached the top of our grade system. It's our fault for lack of patience and consistency, I know. If he'd been my dog alone it would have been easier but my daughter was too impatient to compete. Still, it's more or less OK even if he can still be hard work at times.

 

BCs aren't hard wired to be crazy, they're hard wired to focus. Unfortunately that focus can end up aimed at the wrong target and success will only be achieved if that focus can be redirected to something more acceptable. Throwing them into a situation where there is too much going on like in a class makes it very difficult.

 

As for whether a clicker is appropriate - I found it very useful with him to mark relaxation. The moment the tension in him lessened it was marked and rewarded, but you have to know your dog and understand canine body language to make that work. But I haven't needed to use a clicker with him in general training anything like as much as I have with my other dogs. The BC work ethic and ability to create their own life rewards can render a secondary reinforcer like a clicker superfluous.

 

Clicker or not though, I still much prefer to concentrate on the behaviour I want rather than punish the behaviour I don't.

 

And if anyone were to say that he could have been fixed by a few leash pops, jabs in the neck by a prong collar, electric shocks or whatever I would just laugh in their face. The only way such punishment could have had any effect on him would have been to ratchet it up to the point where it broke his spirit and I never want to be responsible for doing that.

[brndlbc]

MommaLove/Lindsay

Just out of curiosity, what kinds of things is your young dog class working on? Different people work on different things in foundation classes so I was just interested in knowing what type of things were being done.

[Root Beer]

Granted, the clicker can be used many, many different ways. It can be incorporated into classical conditioning as much as it can be used in operant conditioning.

 

There are some clicker trainers who strive to train strictly through operant conditioning, but I would say that the majority of us utilize classical conditioning as much, if not more, than operant.

 

The bigger concern that I have gleaned from what MommaLove has said is that the trainer has no concrete strategies at the ready to help her learn how to start to work Juno through this. A good clicker trainer would be all over that.

 

I don't question the competence of the trainer because the facility promotes and teaches clicker training, but because the trainer didn't have two, three, even four different options for approaching the situation at the ready. Being a clicker trainer doesn't mean that there is only one way to approach a problem. It sounds to me as if this particular trainer lacks concrete experience with this particular issue.

 

I would be actively looking for someone who has. (Yes, you can go it alone - I can attest to that personally. But it is so much easier if you have the guidance of someone who has experience with the issue).

[alligande]

There are many agility trainers who understand what is needed to get a good base in agility but are not "trainers" who can help with problems outside the box.

 

I had similar problems, not as extreme with my young dog, he is three now and sometimes he still gets so excited to play the game he leaps and barks, he was in that mood this morning when we were practising. In my case he just matured with time, I did use a crate extensively in class as a resting place between exercises. I also had a trainer who had no advice, certainly none I was willing to take, popping him on the nose when he lept was not happening.

He was also a dog with great self control, if another dog was running he could lie in the middle of the ring, but when it was his turn... Watch out. What I did was basically ignore him, then when he calmed a little ask for something very simple like a sit or nose touch and reconnect.

Just remember at 7 months he is still a baby.

[Maralynn]

 

The bigger concern that I have gleaned from what MommaLove has said is that the trainer has no concrete strategies at the ready to help her learn how to start to work Juno through this.

 

Yes. This.

 

The problem with ANY type of training is that its not going to work with the dog over threshold. Your dog will either completely ignore you and continue to ingrain the crazy behavior or you'll do serious injury by trying to punish it out.

 

You have to watch your dog, keep it under threshold and build on that bit by bit. IMO that is a training basic. Once you have that under control you can do the agility part of training. I'm really skeptical of the ability of a trainer that can't offer you anything more than the responses you've been given.

[gooddogs74]

Remember that dogs (and people for that matter) get better at what they practice. If your dog is allowed to practice out of control behavior around agility dogs/equipment/facilities that behavior will strengthen with time.

 

I would be focusing strictly on impulse control games, desensitization/counterconditioning to specific pieces/parts of the agility game and Control Unleashed exercises. I would also suggest the Crate Games DVD. Border Collies can be taught to settle. It all depends on what gets reinforced.

 

Once I could achieve some measure of control then and only then would the dog be allowed back in class as a participant. I am what most would call a positive reinforcement/clicker trainer, but there is a lot more to this type of training than just cookies and play. Control of reinforcement and clear criteria for behavior are essential.

 

This could take a while and will be work, but will pay off in the future. Your dog is just a baby. You have plenty of time. There are some excellent foundation skills you can put on her outside of a class, when she is in a state of mind to learn. Dogs don't learn well when they are anxious or overstimulated. I would suggest Agility Right From the Start book and the Foundation Fundamentals DVD. I also like the Wendy Pape foundation DVD.

 

Once you get some skills in place that will cue relaxation and focus on you, you could start using the training facility and getting the same calm and focused behavior there, perhaps starting when there is no class, then starting at a distance away from the action where your dog could be calm and working up from there. Hope this helps!

[TEC]

Clicker or not though, I still much prefer to concentrate on the behaviour I want rather than punish the behaviour I don't.

 

And if anyone were to say that he could have been fixed by a few leash pops, jabs in the neck by a prong collar, electric shocks or whatever I would just laugh in their face. The only way such punishment could have had any effect on him would have been to ratchet it up to the point where it broke his spirit and I never want to be responsible for doing that.

 

Well said. Punishment can produce a whole array of unintended results - loss of keenness, hesitancy, aggression, health problems, to name a few. On rare occasions, for certain dogs and handlers, it works in a superficial way, although covering the underlying unwanted emotion dog is displaying. Terrible remedy for reactiveness/aggression toward dogs and people, as punishment may get rid of growling, curled lips, staring, and all the signs a dog is stressed, yet not address the feeling dog is experiencing. Consequently, in context of reactivity/aggression, person may have created a dog that will suddenly lash-out without warning. I understand Juno is not showing aggressive behavior, yet I believe fellow participants sometimes mistakenly read excited agility sideline behavior in that way. Example also demonstrates how punishment just masks the problem.

 

When punishment isn't working (as is usually the case) handlers often make punishment more severe/dramatic or more frequent, which an over-excited border collie who is in no frame of mind to learn, may interpret in any number of ways. You never know for sure if dog is making correct connection between behavior and consequence, or whether underlying excited emotions are merely covered-up.

 

Personal experience with car chasing, when Josie was a puppy -- Substituted a lie-down off traveled-way in place of running and chasing at sight or sound of car, bike, or anything fast moving. Lots of food treats and praise. Worked very well. I continue to use "car" for lie-down in that situation, as it nails her down in safe place in event she is unaware, although she doesn't appear to have any continued interest in chasing. I credit use of substitution for her improvement.

 

Rewarding a substituted behavior temporarily, or directly rewarding calm behavior may get the desired results. I believe strongly in certified dog trainers. Have consulted with them. Well worth the modest cost. It's mistaken to sit back and give advice, having never seen Juno or met you. I offer the above as possible discussion points with such a trainer. Persistence. -- Very best wishes, TEC

 

PS - Reread MommaLove's post, and see that a short-term solution is sought, while more permanent one is in progress. Reward-based desensitization usually takes a while to get in place. Crating, with a partial cover, at some distance from the other dogs and handlers might be a temporary fix. It didn't work for my dog. Perhaps others on this forum have ideas for a quick band-aid while a long-term solution is underway. -- TEC

[MommaLove]

Get to class early and give her time to settle down before training starts. Give her time to look at the other dogs and sniff a bit before class starts. Its not fair to expect immediate complete focus from a young dog when her surroundings are new (for that day) and exciting.

If there is a fenced area where you can let her off leash and play ball for 5-10 minutes before class, use it. Or go for a walk/jog down the road or around the block before class.

 

Thank you for the great suggestions! I arrived at class early two weeks in a row, hoping to work on calming Juno before the class started, but the instructor was eating her lunch and had the building locked. The weather here has been miserable lately, making it hard to do anything outdoors while we wait (I have a health issue that keeps me out of cold/rainy weather), and the fenced area is used by the "day care" dogs that are there. I will phone ahead to ask the instructor if she would mind unlocking the door a few minutes earlier so I can do some extra work with Juno.

 

Also, we have been given firm instructions NOT to let the dogs interact with each other before or after class. They are not to sniff each other, not to greet each other, NOTHING - they are there to focus on their agility work and "they need to learn that this is not social hour". The expectation is that we arrive, we go to our places, and we get to work.

 

 

Also keep in mind that she is only 7 months which is still very young. This is the time when you need to teach control, but also be aware that she will make mistakes and get over excited. Don't get too frustrated, be persistent, and let her be excited and happy...its a good thing! Just teach her that focusing on you while excited is better than being a maniac. It will take time.

 

I love seeing Juno excited and happy! I also fully expect her to make mistakes All I'm hoping for is to overcome the over-the-top, hyper excitement that makes it impossible for her to focus. I don't expect her full attention to be on me at this point, especially considering her age. But I would like to at least move toward better focus and have been given no advice or tools by my trainer.

 

Also, you said she catches on quick, so what does she do while the rest of the class is still working on things? Say you do 3-5 repetitions (which is plenty...don't overdo it), your dog gets it and you're still waiting for the rest of the dogs in class to 'get it'. Does she get herself all worked up waiting while your focus is elsewhere (on trainer or classmates)? If your mind is elsewhere, hers may wander too.

 

The way the class is set up, the instructor uses her Sheltie to demonstrate what she wants the rest of us to do, then one at a time each dog & handler takes their turn. So, there is a LOT of downtime with Juno when we are expected to sit quietly and wait. The instructor calls us up when it is our turn, we do 1 or 2 reps, and then we sit down again. There is one piece of equipment out at a time, so we can't practice on something else while waiting for the rest of the class to finish the current work.

 

Meg used to get bored in classes if I didn't engage her so we did tricks or worked on a sit/down stay while the 'slower' dogs finished up. I don't expect Meg to focus on me 100% of the time, but if she gets distracted by her nose, I have to work harder to get her focus back, so I gave her something to do...usually something she thinks is fun (wave, spin, shake, stand-tall)...something that isn't too distracting to other dogs/people in class but is enough to keep her focus on me and keep her wondering what we're going to do next.

 

I've tried working on obedience quietly with Juno in attempts to keep her focus on me during this down time, but was asked to stop because a little min pin was getting excited and lunging toward Juno. My focus is always on my dog - it's impossible NOT to focus on her, the way she jumps and spins and carries on.

[MommaLove]

You may not want to hear this, but because of the "no correction" policy at the training center, you may have to pass on this session until Juno is more focused. There may not be a short-term solution. (Hopefully I am wrong about this, and someone here will post a solution.)

 

I'm considering dropping the class altogether. I never intended to do agility with Juno, but we had a class credit to use up after one of our other dogs wasn't able to do the obedience class we had already paid for (time conflicts). At Juno's obedience graduation, the teacher brought out agility equipment for everyone to try, and Juno loved it so I decided to use our credit for the agility class. If I don't complete the class, I'm out the money and the credit, but that isn't my biggest concern right now.

[MommaLove]

Of course she does. Once she has been allowed to get into that frame of mine it's too late. You need to keep enough distance bewteen you and the exciting thing for her still to be able to pay attention to you and relax. Then you gradually build on moving nearer.

 

The way the centre is set up, there isn't really much choice in how close we are to the exciting stimulus. Already we are as far away from the other dogs as we can get.

 

If you punish her you will probably have to be quite harsh to get through to her if she is over excited. If you do that as she will probably be going through a fear period you could affect her for life. You may not but I wouldn't take the risk.

 

I don't want to punish my dog. I DO want to growl a low "No" at her when she is starting to get wild, so she understands I am displeased. Obviously the best thing would be to keep her from getting riled up in the first place, but my trainer hasn't given me any help on that front. Thankfully I've received some good advice from these replies and also from CU!

 

7 months is not an age when I would be expecting a dog to learn much new stuff. It's often the case that things they already know seem to be lost at that age, to resurface a little later once the hormonal changes have started to settle down.

 

Learning new things is not the problem - Juno has learned everything in the class at the drop of a hat. She needs only to try something once or twice, and she not only understands the cue from that point on, but does the new thing very reliably. The problem is when we're NOT learning something new, when we're expected to be calm and wait for our turn, or in the time while we're walking from our spot to the equipment and I can't get her to settle or focus. I do understand that she is very young, and I don't expect much from her in this stage of the game, but the excitement is currently beyond what I know how to handle.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't have an over excited 7 month old working in class but I might take it along for a bit of socialisation and desensitisation, as gcv-border suggests. The frustration of trying to deal with a hyper dog could heavily outweigh any training benefit you may hope for. There is no short term solution other than not letting her get into that state in the first place but the set up at training may not allow you to keep enough distance.

 

Thanks for the advice I'm leaning toward dropping the class for now and maybe waiting until next spring to try again. I'm in no hurry - Juno and I have her whole lifetime to have fun together!

[Root Beer]

I've tried working on obedience quietly with Juno in attempts to keep her focus on me during this down time, but was asked to stop because a little min pin was getting excited and lunging toward Juno. My focus is always on my dog - it's impossible NOT to focus on her, the way she jumps and spins and carries on.

 

This sort of thing calls for a give and take. While it is important to be as accommodating as possible to the needs of the teams around us in class, one's own dog really does come first and foremost.

 

Could you bring along a small barrier to block the min pin's line of sight to Juno? While it really is that dog's handler's responsibility to keep his or her dog from meddling with Juno, some people simply don't do that. In those cases, I have no qualms about putting a covered barrier between my own dog and that one. I don't even ask permission to do this anymore. I say my dog needs it, and that's that. (Even if it really is another dog who really needs it).

 

Also, you could substitute exercises such as Doggie Zen (for which Juno could be pretty much still), mat work, LAT, or stationary tricks such as puppy push-up's or paw work.

 

I wish you the best with this. Should you decide to continue, and work the CU angle, you will most certainly learn quite a lot that could be a great deal of help to you and Juno, even if you do not continue with Agility. But sometimes walking away is what is truly best for the dog.

[gcv-border]

The routine in your agility class sounds very common - wait, wait, wait.... do a few reps, then wait, wait and wait some more. I hate it, but in my area, the only agility trainer I like (because she seems to be most atuned to competitive strategies) teaches the class like that. I have considered taking some 1/2 hour privates with another trainer, but she is definitely not teaching competitive students, nor does she compete very often. She is nice, but more of a trainer for people who want to play at agility. [i need to ask if my current instructor will give me some privates, but she also works full-time.)

 

So, what I am getting at is: does your instructor offer 1/2 hour privates (30 minutes is long enough for a baby dog)? That could be an option.

 

Personally, based on all you have posted, I think I would wait a few more months before trying a group class format again, work on impulse control and some foundation agility games, then try again.

 

Just because our young BCs can catch on to the physical side of agility almost instantaneously, doesn't mean that they are mentally ready for the chaos associated with the agility arena. They may also be so focused on running h*ll-bent-for-leather that sometimes it can be hard to control them on the course (my dog is a case in point-he is 5 now and is just beginning to really focus on working with me, rather than running his own course -- of course, I take much of the blame as he is my first agility dog, and I have made a lot of mistakes). This is where those early impulse control games can help.

 

Jovi