5Bordercollies Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I see on ISDS website The Natural Way is in stock. I've been interested in this book since first seeing it mentioned here. My question to those of you who have read it, how good is it really? I live in South Africa and importing it fm ISDS books price incl is going to cost me R700. Which is a lot of money for a book. Is it worth it? If you had to spend the equivalent of my R700 would you do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 What is the equivalent in dollars? (Sorry, too lazy to go find a currency converter.) I liked the book, and I know others who also liked it (even to the point of thinking it's better than any other available book). Is there any way for you to preview it and see if it would work for you? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bordercollies Posted July 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Julie, it's £39 pnp included. If it's really that good, I'll spend the money. I just don't want to spend 700 bucks on "just another sheepdog training book". If you get my drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I liked the book, and I know others who also liked it (even to the point of thinking it's better than any other available book). Is there any way for you to preview it and see if it would work for you? J. In what way does this book stand out Julie? I am interested in expanding my library on stockdogs. It is not that large right now; Vergil Holland, Tom Longton, and John Holmes. Vergil Holland´s book has always been my "training manual". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I liked it alot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Same question to you then Tea, could you explain why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjones Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I just got this book as a gift. I have only had time to read the first few chapters. I like that she starts off with canine behavior and includes pictures and diagrams that help describe what she is talking about. Samantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I have both editions of Julie Simpson-Hill's The Natural Way. Although, both put across Julie's ideas ,in my personal opinion the 2nd edition is very different (and much better) than her first version. It is packed full of useful info and I strongly recommend it. You ask specifically what it contains, well the contents are as follows: Preface, Acknowledgements Foreword (By Gus Dermody) Introduction PART 1- Communicating the Natural Way Canine Communication How to speak the Dogs own Language Insights and Enlightenment Working Border Collies. Sheep Sense - Understanding your flock Building a Foundation for Training PART 2 - Training the Natural Way Overview of my training method Introduction to Sheep Balancing and Wearing Sheep The Natural Flank and Outrun Lift and Fetch More Flanks The Drive Redirecting your Dog Shedding Penning Brace Training PART 3- Living the Natural Way My teachers Snapshots along the road to Carcant Glossary Similar to the first edition she has continued to have the 'julie's tips' and she also finishes the training chapters with a 'problems' section. The new book now starts with a section of general communication. this includes canine communication which discusses how her pack of dog interacts with each other. She then has a chapter showing how she uses body language (pressure/release) to interact with her dogs away from sheep. The 'insights and enlightenment' chapter has general advice for new handlers about 'working naturally' 'teaching a dog to use its initiative' 'learning to think like a sheep' 'how much presure is the right amount'. The next couple of chapters of theis section are about working border collies and sheep sense - both very much based on her shepherding experiences. The final one is how she brings up pups from birth to a few months old The second section is on her training method and as you can see as the contents list, it goes through each aspect of training in turn. She does tend to refer you back and forward to other parts of the book - I guess she has done this to make it less repetative.. I have gone back a few times to reread the sections she has recommended, but on other occassions I have ignored them The final section contains brief notes on some of her key dogs and what each has taught her (I guess this is why she has called this chapter ' my teachers'!). It also contains her life story. (This last chapter was at the start of her first version, but (again in my opinion) It seems much less waffly than the first edition. Most chapters have plenty of pictures (I think there are over 350 illustrations but don't take my word on this). The majority are photos and the rest are diagrams. Most of the photos and diagrams are grouped together and show a sequence of events of how Julie interacts with her dogs. The picture captions are quite detailed so you can follow what she is trying to show. In addition to the pictures, Julie has included additional text boxes in the chapters= these are 'anecdotes' that seem to be true stories that have happened to Julie and include descriptions of some of her trial runs and things that has happened to her as a shepherd and dog trainer. As these are all coloured green in the book,it was easy to pick them out from the rest of thebook so I have to admit, I spent a few relaxing evenings reading through them (often with a whiskey to hand!). 'from the clinic' where Julie describes problems that clients have had, what she has observed & how she helped solve the problem. This was a separate chapter in the first edition, but now the clinic examples are included in the relevant chapter. . She also seems to include more cases than before. Again I've found these very helpful because I've ended up thinking on several occassions 'oh that has happened to me' 'fact boxes' - these contain extra information and include topics like like 'signs of respect/disrespect', 'examples of how you can confuse your dog', 'pressure' 'driving ewes with lambs'. Reading this through, it seems like an advertisement... its not...but hopefully it is detailed enough to help you decide whether it is worth while paying for the additional P&P cosst. Perhaps if you know someone coming across to the world trials, you could ask them to pick up a copy while they are in the UK. The ISDS normally have a sales tent at the trial field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I have the original version I believe. From the description above, I may just be inspired to get the new version! I apologize to those of you who asked for specifics--I've been on deadline and have not gotten back here till now. I don't have my book in front of me to consult; it's still packed away from the move. In general, though, I just liked the philosophy behind the training. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 hi julie, I too liked the philosophy behind Julie Simpson- Hill's training method that she described in her first edition.. However, personally I found that first version quite frustrating because although the ideas were really exciting, the writing wasn't very well edited and in my opinion the content tended to ramble and jump around from one thought to another. In fact, based on that earlier version, I probably would not have purchased the her new book - It was given to me...and am I so very glad that it was! Although the ideas. philosophy and stories are still very much there, (and updated) this version really could almost be considered a completely new book rather than 'just' a second edition. i personally find the new format much better, the training philosophy is much more clearly laid out and now the author really makes an effort to emphasise dog, sheep and human body language and how these (combined with the situation) can really effect the outcome. It feels to me as if there is much more information in the book. In addition many of the photos in the training section are clearly taken from "bursts" so when put together you can really get an indication of how the author positions herself with respect to her dog and sheep to get the response she wants. I also like the detailed captions. In short, I now really do think that this second edition is a very useful addition to any library on sheepdog training books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bordercollies Posted August 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Thanks a million. I've decided to splash out and get it. Maxi, thanks for the details, I wish I knew someone going to the world trails. But unfortunately I don't, so I'll just have to pay up and smile. But hey, I don't mind paying for something if it's worth it, and from the sounds, and looks of it it's going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Good luck, Obviously, different people may have different opinions especially about things like an author's writing style. I'll be interested in your own views when you get a chance to read it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Hey Maxi, I guess the difference for me may be that I was already experienced at training, so I wasn't looking to the original book to teach me how to train but rather as a source of ideas for things I might not have thought of or used myself. I wasn't thinking about it as a resource for a beginner, and I think your points are quite valid. I had chosen not to get the 2nd edition because I had the first, but I may have to rethink that! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Hi Julie, You're right when I read the first edition, I was very much a beginner with no stock sense and little idea of what handling a sheepdog really meant. Now almost a decade on, I'm fortunate to be in a very different situation, with a smallholding of my own plus the opportunity to do some part-time shepherding for others. Although I have no wish to trial, I'm proud of the way my dogs manage stock in a stress-free manner... So yes, maybe it is me that has changed rather than the book! It's not my place to try and sell Julie Hill's book to others, especially as it seems to be one of the most expensive training books currently available. However, if you or anyone else get the chance to view a copy I'd be very interested to hear your impressions of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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