Hunting Border Collies?

[Colton's_Mom]

My dad and younger brother are really big into hunting. Currently it is just deer because they don't have a bird dog. Basically my younger brother wants a bird dog but he's so irresponsible and bad with dogs (if you've read any of my posts you'd know) that my parents told him no.

 

There are a few bird dog breeds that I looked at before a BC (Brittany and German Shorthair) so I am slighlty partial in considering to get one. The border collie is quiet close to my perfect dog breed just can you train them to hunt? Such as flushing? Is that even trainable (I know *nothing* about hunting)? And retrieving?

 

thanks,

Rayeanne

[Lenajo]

yes many can - retrieve, flush, point. Will they be as good a purpose bred sporting dog? Probably not. It will take more dedication on your part to train them as well. The BCs I've seen hunting were used a dead bird retrievers for small fowl - dove and some duck. I've seen photos of them setting and flushing gamebirds like pheasant as well.

 

The question is, do you want your brother taking your dog out to hunt if he's irresponsible?

[vickim]

I think it would depend on the individual dog. Whisper is very good at flushing game, finding game, and running in the direction it went. Until there is anyone with a gun nearby, or the sound of gunfire. She is terrified of guns and if she sees one, she tries to hide. Or, if we're outside, she gets as close to me as she possible can without crawling inside my skin.

 

I have known a few German Shorthairs...so far, my experience is that they are pretty hard-headed. That could be jsut the training (none of them had what I would call good or even mediocre trainers and they certainly weren't being trained for what their genes were developed for). For these dogs, teaching the sit command was a monumental task. Three of these dogs were what I would call useless in the field. One looked quite good in the field, but as a pet or companion animal, the hard-headedness came into play. The one good field-dog was certainly devoted to her person and was a sweet enough dog, but these are dogs with their own agendas. Again, this might have been a taining issue. Any dog without sufficient training isn't going to be a lot of good to anyone.

 

I also met a Brittany, who was sweet dog. I've only met one of these, but this was a field-dog, most definitely NOT a pet. She was sweet, eager to please and friendly.

 

I'm partial to BCs, and I don't see why they couldn't be trained to hunt--provided you find the right dog.

[Lizmo]

The question is, do you want your brother taking your dog out to hunt if he's irresponsible?

 

My same question when I finished reading her post!

[SoloRiver]

I think they could easily be trained to hunt, but honestly, so many of them are noise phobic that I would recommend any gundog breed over a Border Collie as a hunting companion. If I wanted a Border Collie who could function as a gundog, I would need to know a lot about the noise phobia status of its ancestors and relatives, and be prepared to not use the dog if it turned out to be noise phobic anyway. Generally, noise phobia cannot be "trained out" of a dog, and if anything, attempting to desensitize such a dog to gunfire would be far more likely to sensitize the dog and make him worse.

[Lenajo]

Melanie makes a good point.

 

And it futhers that previous thread point that if you've got extra requirements for a dog like this issue...you need to adopt an adult dog that can be evaluated for noise shyness.

 

you can't have her but my Grace is so noise insensitive that I had her BAER tested at 8 weeks to be sure she wasn't deaf! Grace plays with metal pans for fun...she likes noise Penny can? = Did you say something? Shout and stomp to stop a behavior = a bland eh? what?

 

Grace is atypically tolerant - there are many that are the exact opposite. You can't change who they are, and gun sounds will not be fun for them.

 

 

 

I think they could easily be trained to hunt, but honestly, so many of them are noise phobic that I would recommend any gundog breed over a Border Collie as a hunting companion. If I wanted a Border Collie who could function as a gundog, I would need to know a lot about the noise phobia status of its ancestors and relatives, and be prepared to not use the dog if it turned out to be noise phobic anyway. Generally, noise phobia cannot be "trained out" of a dog, and if anything, attempting to desensitize such a dog to gunfire would be far more likely to sensitize the dog and make him worse.

[Colton's_Mom]

As far as who would take the dog out my dad or I would be there at all times =]

[Northof49]

In the 1980s my ex-husband trained our two border collies to hunt ducks, geese, pheasant, grouse. They were excellent at it. The only problem he encountered was that once it got too cold in the fall, he couldn't hunt on the sloughs and the river as their coats aren't made to withstand the cold water. They would flush, and retrieve. They were really good at finding the wounded ducks hiding under the swaths of wheat, canola, barley, etc.

 

But like anything else, you have to put the right training on them to make them good hunting dogs.

[SoloRiver]

you can't have her but my Grace is so noise insensitive that I had her BAER tested at 8 weeks to be sure she wasn't deaf! Grace plays with metal pans for fun...she likes noise Penny can? = Did you say something? Shout and stomp to stop a behavior = a bland eh? what?

 

Fly is like that too. She could care less about loud noises -- she might notice the first one but after that she says "meh" and goes about her business like nothing's happening.

 

But in my experience, Border Collies that don't have some level of noise phobia are quite rare, to the point that it is difficult to find control (unaffected) dogs for the noise phobia study. This could be due to sampling or participation bias, as owners with phobic dogs are more likely to be interested in participating. That said, it is far more common even in casual interactions for Border Collie owners to volunteer that their dogs are terrified of sounds than to say, "Nope, you can shoot a gun off right next to her and she doesn't care." I just don't think Border Collies are generally suited to be gundogs.

 

If the dog must tolerate gunfire, I would recommend only an adult over the age of two and ideally at least two or three years older than that, as noise phobia often does not become apparent until after the age of two.

[Liz P]

I used to own a BC who was the type that you could shoot a gun next to her and she wouldn't care. Her sister was actually quite the accomplished gun dog and went hunting on weekends she was not working sheep. She pointed, flushed and retrieved. I would agree that her litter (not one was noise phobic or sensitive) was quite rare. I still own her niece. She was just fine around gun fire and fireworks but gets very excited when she hears sirens and motorcycles. Recently though she has been pinning her ears back during storms and leaves the room with an angry look on her face when my cell phone hits certain tones.

 

I also own a male, nearly 11 now, who is completely oblivious to loud noises (still perfect hearing though, as demonstrated by his ability to reach the kitchen in less than a second when I open a package that might contain food). Many of his close relatives appear to be very steady around loud noises. His brother was a SAR dog and thought nothing of helicopters, heavy machinery or other potentially scary sounds.

 

ETA: My sister is super irresponsible and I would not let her take one of my dogs anywhere near a gun, supervision or not, and she is 31 years old! I agree, why let a dog you love go out with someone you do not trust?

[Shoofly]

Every time this thread comes up on "view new posts", and i see "Hunting Border Collies", i can't help but think -- yep, you could use sheep for bait.

[Lenajo]

As far as who would take the dog out my dad or I would be there at all times =]

 

I've never found the irresponsibility trait do be specific to only one part of a person's life. Given you description of him, I would prefer to stay home when your brother is armed and hunting.