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First time poster with two BC Questions


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#41 GentleLake

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:05 PM

Having to put a muzzle on a dog so she can safely visit in a nursing home says to me that the pup isn't mature enough for that kind of activity.

 

There's a reason that most if not all therapy dog registries require a dog to be at least a year old before it can be certified.

 

Honestly, I'm surprised the facility allows this. This pup could do as much damage to an elderly person's skin with her nails as she can with her teeth. (Ask me how I know.) Are you also putting booties on her?


"People in your life always come and go all the time; the dogs are always there for me. Always." ~Samantha Valle


#42 BillG

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 02:09 PM

Muzzle is on per my post above. No the care center hasn't  concerns, why do you? 

I have never seen so many nervous Nellies. For the record its Assisted Living and they bring dogs or puppies in all the time without issues.

 

I just want to add that I am 74 years old and I may be new here, but I am on many, many different Forums and User Groups. Plus I had a very successful working career not as a dog trainer however.  I ran a Department when I was teaching full time the past 12 years, I was considered competent. 

 

When I posted about the positive results of our dog / puppy visiting my mother in law I did not expect to be attacked with so many negative comments. Read back in this Thread and read the negative feedback and arguing about the use of the word No for Pete's sake!  Gee whiz folks.


Retired teacher, Lots of hobby's  and Electrician.  Gina -  Border Collie / Aussie pup


#43 CptJack

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 03:52 PM

Muzzles on young puppies not properly acclimated to them can create a life time of issues - and that's outside the problems of frustration of not being ABLE to mouth, and potential to form HORRIBLY negative associations to being around people.  Ie: It's like the reverse of positive socialization; it's likely to cause negative associations, be a bad experience to the puppy and lead to behavioral consequences you're not going to like down the road.


Also frankly any pup who is still inclined to mouth is probably also still 

A-) Not housebroken entirely

B-) Not fully vaccinated

C-) Likely to jump.   And nails do as much damage to fragile older people's skin as teeth. 

 

Basically it's just all around bad for both the old people and the puppy.  No one wins here, nothing positive is gained, at all, but you risk a whole lot of bad.  


We're not "Nervous Nellies" . We just recognize 'bad idea' when we see one.  And this? Is not just a bad idea it's a terrible idea.

 

PARTICULARLY with a puppy who is growling when you handle her, per your other thread!  



#44 BillG

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 04:25 PM

Deleted and Unsubscribed by Poster


Retired teacher, Lots of hobby's  and Electrician.  Gina -  Border Collie / Aussie pup


#45 D'Elle

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:20 PM

Chiming in here for the first time after having read this thread entirely.

 

I cannot help wondering why the original poster keeps deleting his posts.....

 

I don't think we are Nervous Nellies, although I can see how a newcomer might get that impression.

Instead, what I am, and others here are, is what I call a Contingency Thinker.

 

In other words, I and some of the others here tend to think things that concern our dogs (and most likely everything else as well) through to all of the possible outcomes. Doing this isn't negative or assuming the worst or being nervous. It is simply a way of being aware of all the possibilities, and most especially when you are dealing with a puppy there are a whole lot of possibilities. If you think ahead to what might happen if this, and if that, then you can prevent a great deal of trouble for you and the puppy, and potentially also prevent tragedy.

 

All that any of us want is for every border collie to have a good home, and be happy with the person who is equally happy with her. We are trying to help.


D'Elle

and family.

Left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that?" --Jester:  2001 - June 24 2016. Remembered with much love.
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

And not pictured, Benjamin the cat, who thinks he is a small border collie with superpowers.

 

 

 


#46 Eileen Stein

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 03:29 PM

Muzzle is on per my post above. No the care center hasn't  concerns, why do you? 

I have never seen so many nervous Nellies. For the record its Assisted Living and they bring dogs or puppies in all the time without issues.

 

I just want to add that I am 74 years old and I may be new here, but I am on many, many different Forums and User Groups. Plus I had a very successful working career not as a dog trainer however.  I ran a Department when I was teaching full time the past 12 years, I was considered competent. 

 

When I posted about the positive results of our dog / puppy visiting my mother in law I did not expect to be attacked with so many negative comments. Read back in this Thread and read the negative feedback and arguing about the use of the word No for Pete's sake!  Gee whiz folks.

 

Just wanted to point out that there is not one uniform training point of view on this forum.  It would be pretty dull if that were the case, and not really much of a discussion group.

 

It's quite unusual to muzzle a puppy.  Young puppies encounter the world through their mouths, and I can understand people being concerned about possible negative effects of muzzling in the long run.  I can also understand the opposite point of view -- that it's no big deal if used occasionally.  I tend toward the second view, but only if the owner is able to read the pup's reactions accurately.  Since not everyone is able to do this -- and not even everyone who thinks they are able to do this can do this -- it's not an "attack" for people to point out possible pitfalls to someone they don't know.

 

As for discussion about the word No, well, a lot of people are on these Boards because they are very interested in dog training and enjoy considering and discussing the fine points of it.  To some people that's like discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin -- a total waste of time.  To others, it's part of working out how they can develop their training relationship with their dog to the max.  One of the most interesting things I've ever observed was watching Kent Kuykendall -- an accomplished trainer and handler of working sheepdogs who can put a dog where he wants it to be and make it understand what he wants it to do from hundreds of yards away --  work out with a dog their mutual understanding of the meaning of the whistle commands he was going to be using.  Before that, I thought you just taught a dog what a command meant.  But on that occasion I witnessed a feedback loop in which man and dog taught each other what they understood the commands to mean, and worked toward a common agreement.  (ETA:  For those who might be interested, a recent article in the science section of Wired refers to this phenomenon, and a couple of comments here on the Boards about that article are also worth reading.)

 

So please be patient with us.  When people offer advice, consider it, and take what you find helpful at the moment and ignore the rest.  If you're completely satisfied with the methods you're using now, nobody's going to keep you from continuing with them.  If you're looking to find something that might work better, think about the suggestions offered.  As d'Elle says, we are only trying to help.


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#47 Jexa

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 04:36 PM

OP, you asked for opinions and received thoughtful, knowledgeable responses. The fact that they do not validate YOUR opinions does not make us "nervous nellies" or "negative". Or argumentative; on the contrary posters on this board by and large are incredibly respectful of others' opinions, and there is certainly a wide range of opinions. Every once and while there does seem to be new posters who get angry that older posters don't agree with them and decide we're all out to get them...

If, instead of merely looking for an echo chamber to validate whatever opinions you already hold, you are indeed looking for advice on how best to guide your completely adorable pup into a healthy and well trained adult, then I highly encourage you to stick around and continue asking questions and read previous threads (the search function is great!). You will be most welcome. The catch, of course, is that you will learn nothing and Gina will not benefit if you are not able to do so with an open mind. If you think you have nothing to learn, then perhaps a discussion forum is not for you. We do, after all, like to discuss things here. ;)

Training a dog is far more nuanced than many people realize, and training a puppy as intelligent and sensitive as a Border Collie adds heaps of layers of nuance, finesse, and importance of timing. It can be a challenge, but one that is well worth it. Everyone here can learn something from everyone else, and there is a wealth of knowledge on these boards. For Gina's sake I hope you are able to take advantage of that.

#48 Smalahundur

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 06:12 PM

Good posts, but I think the topic starter is gone.

"Milli manns og hests og hunds hangir leyniþráður"



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